2022 national confirmed membership counts

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Wiseguy
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by Wiseguy »

Timmoffat wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:57 amAn active crew of 8 or 10 mainly associates under Albert calvanese and Santaniello actively committing loansharking and bookmaking in the Springfield area definitely constitutes A Genovese presence made guy or no made guy.
Remnants of a crew that once was. Hence the reason they're now under the supervision of a New York crew.
We just saw Scibelli get pinched and there has been way more then just the tow truck extortion for activity in western Mass in the last 3-4 years.
What are you basing that on? There has been nothing but a huge drop-off in activity there over the past decade.
They are definitely kicking up and also definitely part of a broader crew that is dug into Connecticut and even Albany area. Definitely a decent amount of activity out there.
One can see a similar drop off in activity in recent years in Connecticut. It's been a decade since the last Gambino bust. Whatever Genovese remnants are under the same crew as Springfield - the New York crew led by Ianniello ans O'Nofrio.
On this one I will agree to disagree. I am from New England . I definitely have lived one foot in and out of the criminal underworld in Northshore and Boston Route 1 corridor Massachusetts and even done some No Bond jail time before beating a string Ontario.
Ok but what does that have to do with the current state of the Patriarca family?
You didn’t really say nothing is going on but you implying that it’s all dying out is not reflective of reality. These guys definitely are still around and definitely have younger crews and textbox case associates and wannabes that manage to not got much attention because the targets of the state cops and organized crime task forces are mostly Dominican gangs and DTOs, with occasional theft rings and large scale frauds to keep them busy.
I have flat out said it, not just implied it. The can see the writing on the wall for the few remaining families outside New York, including New England.

The family has half the membership it did 30 years ago. Like I said, only a handful of mostly old and inactive members in Providence and nothing in Connecticut. It's basically down to Boston. But whether we're talking Boston, Providence or elsewhere in New England, you can see the drop off in activity over the past decade.

The mob isn't really a priority for law enforcement there but it's not so much because of other groups but because of the state of LCN itself. As recently as 2011 the LCN was the FBI's top priority in the region and its not like those other groups just popped up since then.
You have to remember, despite me abiding by the rules earlier with the membership estimates, I am going to empathetically state that there are quite a few guys that are 38, 40, 42, to mid 50s that are apparently made guys that have never been listed on these message boards.
One doesn't just have to look at the lists here. You can look at the figures put out by law enforcement over the years. Which, by the way, the New England charts here are pretty close to. There isn't a lot of made guys flying under the radar there any more than in Buffalo or Detroit.
It is rampant exaggeration that New England is on its way out. They are still a local phenomenon comparable to Philly in Revere, Lynn, Lynnfield, Medford, the North shore, the North end, East Boston and the neighborhoods by Logan, the suburbs south of Boston off 93/24, as well as 1 or 2 guys who live on the seacoast/valley and 2/3 that I know of in southern Maine. Everyone who grew up in the neighborhoods and aren’t brand new yuppie transplants know exactly who these guys are. I know there are other guys who may have a similar perspective on this board. Their little Italian men’s club doesn’t stop because we don’t see them. I know for a fact the FBI barely pays attention to them. Way more dangerous fentanyl analogues and financial crimes to fry. Plus Black Lives Matter and a bunch of psycho redneck militias (incidentally a good example is those black guys from Rhode Island starting a stand off on 95)
If you're talking about some "knockaround" street guys here and there, I can see that, but I doubt there's 2 or 3 members living in southern Maine.
All roads lead to New York.
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by JoeCamel »

[/quote]

If you're talking about some "knockaround" street guys here and there, I can see that, but I doubt there's 2 or 3 members living in southern Maine.
[/quote]

All due respect, but I live here. Like I’m starting to form the opinion you live in Utah or Montana or something and in terms of actually living in proximity to the real people in the towns you just read about it, there’s absolutely no way you can relate. I’m not talking shit, I’m just saying these guys are real people which in many cases I know victims, family members, the cops who really chase them. My Lawyer even has represented some of them. I’ve literally met known members and associates that have been listed on here: it maybe a concept for you, but for some of us it really is reality.

Richard Gambale maintains a residence in York Maine when not in Florida. You can go on a people finder website and see for yourself.

Billy Angelesco lives in Saco, check out the news stories on the last arrest

There’s another dude in Portland that has never popped up on these lists but the street carries as a made guy (apparently) I’m just not going there. If you look hard enough in the last 20 years of justice department press releases and pore
Over lists of known associates I know you can figure it out.

Notwithstanding that’s two. I have successfully defended myself. I win.
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by JoeCamel »

Timmoffat wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:58 pm
If you're talking about some "knockaround" street guys here and there, I can see that, but I doubt there's 2 or 3 members living in southern Maine.
[/quote]

All due respect, but I live here. Like I’m starting to form the opinion you live in Utah or Montana or something and in terms of actually living in proximity to the real people in the towns you just read about it, there’s absolutely no way you can relate. I’m not talking shit, I’m just saying these guys are real people which in many cases I know victims, family members, the cops who really chase them. My Lawyer even has represented some of them. I’ve literally met known members and associates that have been listed on here: it maybe a concept for you, but for some of us it really is reality.

Richard Gambale maintains a residence in York Maine when not in Florida. You can go on a people finder website and see for yourself. That’s the next town over from me. I know where the house is and have driven by it.

Billy Angelesco lives in Saco, check out the news stories on the last arrest

There’s another dude in Portland that has never popped up on these lists but the street carries as a made guy (apparently) I’m just not going there. If you look hard enough in the last 20 years of justice department press releases and pore
Over lists of known associates I know you can figure it out.

Notwithstanding that’s two. I have successfully defended myself. I win.
[/quote]
JoeCamel
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by JoeCamel »

Ontario was a typo as autocorrect it was suppose to say I have beaten numerous cases in Massachusetts
JoeCamel
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by JoeCamel »

Ontario was a typo as autocorrect it was suppose to say I have beaten numerous cases in Massachusetts.

Also one more point I literally try to make again and again. All the New England states, NYC, and northern NJ are all
In close proximity to each other. You can fit every state but Maine from Néw England inside of New York State. Like literally Maine border is 15 mins from Mass border
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by Pogo The Clown »

Timmoffat wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:58 pm All due respect, but I live here. Like I’m starting to form the opinion you live in Utah or Montana or something and in terms of actually living in proximity to the real people in the towns you just read about it, there’s absolutely no way you can relate.

The ol' 'I live here and you don't' card. Going with this than there are 100 members in Chicago, 60 in Detroit, 40 in Milwaukee, 40 in KC, 30 in St. Louis, 20 in Cleveland, 20 in Pittsburgh, 20 in New Orleans with San Francisco still around and quietly operating in the shadows. And other such gems from posters who claimed to live in said cities.


Pogo
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Newyorkempire
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by Newyorkempire »

Pogo The Clown wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:48 pm
Timmoffat wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:58 pm All due respect, but I live here. Like I’m starting to form the opinion you live in Utah or Montana or something and in terms of actually living in proximity to the real people in the towns you just read about it, there’s absolutely no way you can relate.

The ol' 'I live here and you don't' card. Going with this than there are 100 members in Chicago, 60 in Detroit, 40 in Milwaukee, 40 in KC, 30 in St. Louis, 20 in Cleveland, 20 in Pittsburgh, 20 in New Orleans with San Francisco still around and quietly operating in the shadows. And other such gems from posters who claimed to live in said cities.


Pogo
You're gaslighting and convoluting his argument. No one is stating those high numbers in the smaller cities you just listed
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by Pogo The Clown »

Because it went over your head. Simply living in a given city doesn't magically give you some special insight into the inner workings of the local mob family or impart some special knowledge that other people who don't live there don't have access to. Just as an example Snakes, Antiliar and Villain are the most knowledgeable posters about the Chicago Outfit you will find and they have never even been to Chicago.


Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
JoeCamel
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by JoeCamel »

Both of you are more then welcome to fly into Logan Airport and check out the scene. Like literally both of you guys are geniuses and legit factotums/encyclopedias on LCN. I will never take that away from and I can’t, but I’ve noticed every time you guys are threatened with the unknown or the undeniable realization that maybe just maybe guys like Cavita, Bobby Batts, Scott, myself might actually have a greater grasp on LCN in the present in our own home metro areas then you do wherever you live and in whatever subculture of society you inhabit. I have never seen any personal admissions from you guys, and the sheer negativity on top of the defensive tone you take with
Anyone who brings it up, I am now convinced you are both not only so far removed from reality, which is ironic because you accuse all of us of being delusional, despite some of us literally living in the same neighborhoods as these guys and you living literally in Idaho or Utah and once again I will be the first to say, you both are basically scholars and historians on this stuff, but it’s
Time
To
Stop picking everyone else’s opinions or personal life experiences apart, and time to start getting out
To these LCN stronghold cities and sell some
Heroin or do some bookmaking and Loansharking and running underground poker games and buy a garbage truck or run a little extortion so some of these guys you make charts of actually show up and you actually experience something you are so obsessed with to the point you demean guys who follow this stuff as a hobbie for having a different opinion then you
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by JoeCamel »

Like Pogo you are a real smart guy, but NYempire is right. You are avoiding the fact that a lot of us have committed crime our whole lives and have special insight into our regional underworld. Some of us might have gone to school with made guys or kids of made guys. Some of us literally wave to made guys on our way to the mailbox. This isn’t just a concept far removed from Nebraska. It is our real lives and real friends and Neighbors
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by JoeCamel »

Pogo The Clown wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:15 pm Because it went over your head. Simply living in a given city doesn't magically give you some special insight into the inner workings of the local mob family or impart some special knowledge that other people who don't live there don't have access to. Just as an example Snakes, Antiliar and Villain are the most knowledgeable posters about the Chicago Outfit you will find and they have never even been to Chicago.


Pogo
p

You are literally ignoring every point I made about the fact Mobsters are real people and a lot of these towns and neighborhoods are real places real people actually live. Like you and Wiseguy are the only ones who can’t accept that some of us literally are
Living breathing people that actually interact with other Real people
JoeCamel
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by JoeCamel »

A local Mob family is an institution in a way: generations are aware of them. I have known what the Mafia was since I was 4 years old. They Ran a Brothel in our town for 20 years. Leo Manzoli was the made guy who ran it. They paid the local cops off. I know cousins of the Carozzas who live right down the street from me my whole life. They would visit them. My own cousin (20 years older then me ) was on record back in the mid 80. 1000 other people within 25 miles of me right now have the same type of stories



So Pogo and Wiseguy do you have those stories? Or just redacted photo copies from Mary Ferrell?
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by Pogo The Clown »

Timmoffat wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:30 pm Both of you are more then welcome to fly into Logan Airport and check out the scene. Like literally both of you guys are geniuses and legit factotums/encyclopedias on LCN. I will never take that away from and I can’t, but I’ve noticed every time you guys are threatened with the unknown or the undeniable realization that maybe just maybe guys like Cavita, Bobby Batts, Scott, myself might actually have a greater grasp on LCN in the present in our own home metro areas then you do wherever you live and in whatever subculture of society you inhabit.

The other ol' card of turning the discussion into what you say vs. what I say.. Sorry but it is not me saying it. It is LE saying it. They are the ones who have said LCN as a whole is contracting with their base of operations getting smaller and smaller.


They are the ones who have said the NE family as a whole lost about a 1/3 of their membership from the early 1990s to the 2000s and that the family was a shell or shadow of what it once was. They are the ones who have said the Providence membership dropped by half from the 1980s-2000s. They are the one who have said that Providence is decimated with only 1 or 2 active members in 2011. They are the ones who have said the longstanding Genovese Speingfield Crew now reports to a NY Captain. They are the ones who have said that 3 of the NY families now no longer have full standalone NJ Crews. And other such examples.


Their direct statements and other evidence we can all see simply beats the 100th anonymous poster to come on here with claims about being "from the streets" and "knowing made guys". But that's just me.


Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
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Wiseguy
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by Wiseguy »

Timmoffat wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:58 pmAll due respect, but I live here.
So what? How does living in a given area give you special insight to the inner workings of a secret criminal organization you're not a part of?
Like I’m starting to form the opinion you live in Utah or Montana or something and in terms of actually living in proximity to the real people in the towns you just read about it, there’s absolutely no way you can relate.
Ah, the geography card. Like old times. I do live in Utah. But when it comes to this issue - the current state of the New England LCN - I could live in Egypt and it wouldn't make any difference. More sources are available to anyone, wherever they may be, than by benefit of simply living in an area. I don't need to live in Providence or Boston to see the decline in membership, indictments, etc.
I’m not talking shit, I’m just saying these guys are real people which in many cases I know victims, family members, the cops who really chase them. My Lawyer even has represented some of them. I’ve literally met known members and associates that have been listed on here: it maybe a concept for you, but for some of us it really is reality.

Richard Gambale maintains a residence in York Maine when not in Florida. You can go on a people finder website and see for yourself.

Billy Angelesco lives in Saco, check out the news stories on the last arrest

There’s another dude in Portland that has never popped up on these lists but the street carries as a made guy (apparently) I’m just not going there. If you look hard enough in the last 20 years of justice department press releases and pore
Over lists of known associates I know you can figure it out.

Notwithstanding that’s two. I have successfully defended myself. I win.
If that's the case, what that tells me is these guys are basically inactive. It's not a case of individual members, or the family in general, setting up an outpost in Maine.
Timmoffat wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:30 pmBoth of you are more then welcome to fly into Logan Airport and check out the scene.
I could move there for the rest of my life and it wouldn't give me any greater insight.
Like literally both of you guys are geniuses and legit factotums/encyclopedias on LCN. I will never take that away from and I can’t, but I’ve noticed every time you guys are threatened with the unknown or the undeniable realization that maybe just maybe guys like Cavita, Bobby Batts, Scott, myself might actually have a greater grasp on LCN in the present in our own home metro areas then you do wherever you live and in whatever subculture of society you inhabit. I have never seen any personal admissions from you guys, and the sheer negativity on top of the defensive tone you take with
Anyone who brings it up, I am now convinced you are both not only so far removed from reality, which is ironic because you accuse all of us of being delusional, despite some of us literally living in the same neighborhoods as these guys and you living literally in Idaho or Utah and once again I will be the first to say, you both are basically scholars and historians on this stuff, but it’s
Time
To
Stop picking everyone else’s opinions or personal life experiences apart, and time to start getting out

To these LCN stronghold cities and sell some
Heroin or do some bookmaking and Loansharking and running underground poker games and buy a garbage truck or run a little extortion so some of these guys you make charts of actually show up and you actually experience something you are so obsessed with to the point you demean guys who follow this stuff as a hobbie for having a different opinion then you
BobbyBatts? The guy who says there are still 15 (or so) members in Kansas City (when there were only 20 members 30 years ago)? He lives in the area, and I find it believable he may know some people, but I've never seen how that equates to him having an inside breakdown of who's burned a saint. But that's me.

Scott? Do we really need to go there?

I'm not trying to be negative or pick on anyone but this issue - people making exaggerated claims about a family and having nothing to support it but their address and anecdotes - is as old as the hills.
Timmoffat wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:37 pm Like Pogo you are a real smart guy, but NYempire is right. You are avoiding the fact that a lot of us have committed crime our whole lives and have special insight into our regional underworld. Some of us might have gone to school with made guys or kids of made guys. Some of us literally wave to made guys on our way to the mailbox. This isn’t just a concept far removed from Nebraska. It is our real lives and real friends and Neighbors
NewYorkEmpire? They guy who insists there is still a functioning family with 30+ members in Buffalo? I'm not sure he's been right about anything since he started posting on this forum.
All roads lead to New York.
Eddie mush
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Re: 2022 national confirmed membership counts

Post by Eddie mush »

Timm don’t waste yur time arguing with wiseguy he know it all . Would not know the diffrence between a wise guy and a Boy Scout . Complete moron

But let me ask u one question Wiseguy
If this family is so inactive why did they execute over 20 search warrants in the month of November on these guys houses and phones ?? Or do u not know about that because it’s not on Wikipedia yet . Fucking jerkoff
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