Los Angeles odds & ends

[InCamelot]

Scalise was associated with Carfano, but we have to remember that guilt by association isn't always correct. Like you, I would probably put him in Carfano's crew, but I would also caution that it's only an educated guess.

For sure, thats important to remember.

Antiliar, in your research did you ever come across any info regarding Joe Sica of LA and whether he had connections to the NY families? I know he allegedly was never made by Dragna because of his loyalty to Mickey Cohen, but wondering if he was still "spoken for" by another group.

A lot of the available material is outdated, at least the more useful material. Alfred Sica's FBI file, for example, only goes up to 1958. Recalling the Kefauver Committee, I think one of them testified to knowing Joe Adonis, but that isn't much to go on. Later the Sica brothers were caught up in the boxing scandal that including Louis Dragna, John Paul Carbo and Blinky Palermo. Carbo was a member of the Lucchese Family and previously was connected with so-called Murder Inc. and Bugsy Siegel. My impression is that they were really loyal to Mickey Cohen, and when Cohen wasn't around they shifted their loyalties to the Los Angeles Family. So I don't see any evidence of them being "spoken for" by any of the New York Families. Even Mickey Cohen, who by rights could have been "spoken for" by the Genovese Family, wasn't. He chose to be independent and maintained his connections to Frank Costello and the Milanos out of respect and friendship.

Appreciate the info. Great stuff.

[Rat]

Did the West Coast families have any unique customs or slang they used? Similar to how Outfit had their own slang for different positions that was different from what the East coast guys used.

Michael Niotta whose written a few books on LA said they in the early days they were called a Brugad rather than a Borgata and they had a Regina (San Diego) and other spread out territories vice a small borough. They also had their own Grand Council and referred to the council members as Bastones (“Sticks”).

Anyone know of anything else?

[PolackTony]

Did the West Coast families have any unique customs or slang they used? Similar to how Outfit had their own slang for different positions that was different from what the East coast guys used.

Michael Niotta whose written a few books on LA said they in the early days they were called a Brugad rather than a Borgata and they had a Regina (San Diego) and other spread out territories vice a small borough. They also had their own Grand Council and referred to the council members as Bastones (“Sticks”).

Anyone know of anything else?

“Brugad” and “regina” are just dialect/vernacular pronunciations of borgata and decina.

The LA family, like the Midwestern families, referred to LCN as the outfit.

[motorfab]

Did the West Coast families have any unique customs or slang they used? Similar to how Outfit had their own slang for different positions that was different from what the East coast guys used.

Michael Niotta whose written a few books on LA said they in the early days they were called a Brugad rather than a Borgata and they had a Regina (San Diego) and other spread out territories vice a small borough. They also had their own Grand Council and referred to the council members as Bastones (“Sticks”).

Anyone know of anything else?

“Brugad” and “regina” are just dialect/vernacular pronunciations of borgata and decina.

The LA family, like the Midwestern families, referred to LCN as the outfit.

Not Los Angeles, it seems they were represented by the Luccheses

[Rat]

Did the West Coast families have any unique customs or slang they used? Similar to how Outfit had their own slang for different positions that was different from what the East coast guys used.

Michael Niotta whose written a few books on LA said they in the early days they were called a Brugad rather than a Borgata and they had a Regina (San Diego) and other spread out territories vice a small borough. They also had their own Grand Council and referred to the council members as Bastones (“Sticks”).

Anyone know of anything else?

The LA family, like the Midwestern families, referred to LCN as the outfit.

Thanks, do you know any other examples? Like were the Cali guys running around talking about "skippers" and "buttons?"

[PolackTony]

Did the West Coast families have any unique customs or slang they used? Similar to how Outfit had their own slang for different positions that was different from what the East coast guys used.

Michael Niotta whose written a few books on LA said they in the early days they were called a Brugad rather than a Borgata and they had a Regina (San Diego) and other spread out territories vice a small borough. They also had their own Grand Council and referred to the council members as Bastones (“Sticks”).

Anyone know of anything else?

“Brugad” and “regina” are just dialect/vernacular pronunciations of borgata and decina.

The LA family, like the Midwestern families, referred to LCN as the outfit.

Not Los Angeles, it seems they were represented by the Luccheses

Yes, that’s true. But they used the term “outfit” as a euphemism for LCN, same as Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh, etc. There’s a very common misconception that using outfit as a reference to LCN was unique to Chicago, when that was not at all the case.

[Pogo The Clown]

If I remember right Jimmy Frattiano also referred to Cleveland as an 'outfit' when recounting a conversation in his book.


Pogo

[PolackTony]

Did the West Coast families have any unique customs or slang they used? Similar to how Outfit had their own slang for different positions that was different from what the East coast guys used.

Michael Niotta whose written a few books on LA said they in the early days they were called a Brugad rather than a Borgata and they had a Regina (San Diego) and other spread out territories vice a small borough. They also had their own Grand Council and referred to the council members as Bastones (“Sticks”).

Anyone know of anything else?

The LA family, like the Midwestern families, referred to LCN as the outfit.

Thanks, do you know any other examples? Like were the Cali guys running around talking about "skippers" and "buttons?"

About that I have no idea. The term “button”, at least, was apparently used in Chicago, so it wasn’t only an NYC thing (I believe that B made a good case that the term “button” actually originated in Sicily, so it would make sense if it was later in currency among multiple US families). I’ve only seen capodecina/caporegime used in reference to the LA family.

[PolackTony]

If I remember right Jimmy Frattiano also referred to Cleveland as an 'outfit' when recounting a conversation in his book.


Pogo

Yeah, and there are a number of documented uses in FBI files. KC, Milwaukee, Detroit, Pittsburgh, LA, Cleveland, Rockford. It was also documented as used by guys in NYC/NJ on occasion, but it didn’t become the predominant euphemism there so it seems to have been used less commonly.

[B.]

Yeah, Dr. Melchiorre Allegra who was made in Palermo used a Sicilian phrase that translated to something like "belonging to the button" (bottone). He used it very deliberately to communicate someone having mafia membership (i.e. the mafia was the "button" that held them all together) so I don't think he was just trying to be creative in his deposition, which is very straightforward. "Belonging to the button" is slightly different from "having my button" but easy to imagine it changed over time and the original use mutated.

Curious who the source is about the LA Family having a council called "Bastones". Never seen the LA informants mention having a consiglio but SF and SJ each had one and it's turning out many/most Families had one early on, as did the Sicilian mafia. Sometimes the Family had a unique name for it so "Bastone" is believable but wonder who mentioned it.

[Antiliar]

Curious who the source is about the LA Family having a council called "Bastones". Never seen the LA informants mention having a consiglio but SF and SJ each had one and it's turning out many/most Families had one early on, as did the Sicilian mafia. Sometimes the Family had a unique name for it so "Bastone" is believable but wonder who mentioned it.

It's in Tom Dragna's FBI file.

[B.]

Excellent info. Thank you!

The list grows.

[davidf1989]

Why did Bompensiero and Tom Dragna cooperate with the feds?

[B.]

Bomp hated the leadership and was disgruntled over not being promoted back to captain. He, Fratianno, and Roselli had multiple plots to take over the Family through their own schemes but those fizzled out and he finally sought out the FBI to air his grievances and hurt the leadership. There is reason to believe the FBI was supporting his efforts to take over the Family so he may have considered it a new scheme for taking over.

All three LA informants (Bomp, Fratianno, Piscopo) were from the same faction which I find suspicious. Can't imagine they would trust each other with that info about each other, though -- extremely treacherous group of men even by mafia standards.

[davidf1989]

Bomp hated the leadership and was disgruntled over not being promoted back to captain. He, Fratianno, and Roselli had multiple plots to take over the Family through their own schemes but those fizzled out and he finally sought out the FBI to air his grievances and hurt the leadership. There is reason to believe the FBI was supporting his efforts to take over the Family so he may have considered it a new scheme for taking over.

All three LA informants (Bomp, Fratianno, Piscopo) were from the same faction which I find suspicious. Can't imagine they would trust each other with that info about each other, though -- extremely treacherous group of men even by mafia standards.

Thanks for your explanation and did both Fratianno and Bompensiero hate their boss Frank Desimone?