Camorra`s "membership"

[ThutmosisChen]

It is widely accepted that the modern Camorra doesn`t have a "membership" system similar to Cosa Nostra or Ndrangheta, however, I wonder if there has been any concept in the organization regarding an unofficial membership, in other words at what point someone would be recognized as a "Camorristi"? Would everyone who works as low-level associates of the clan be called a Camorristi, or only those who are respected and can influence the policy of the clan? I would guess the latter is the case, can`t imagine when Cutolo wanted to introduce initiation rituals to the Camorra he would want to induct every errand boy which would likely be 10s of thousands for the entire Camorra. So what is the standard for "membership", if such a concept does exist at all?

[Etna]

No. It does not currently exist. The Camorra had a form of membership years ago until the early 20th century when somehow it crumbled due to the camorra trials then. The most recent effort to formalize a structure within the Camorra was under the Nuova Famiglia & Nuova Camorra Organizzata factions. Both efforts failed - since then, it's been loosely structured clans.

[ThutmosisChen]

Yes, I understand that. However, there seems to have always been an informal idea of membership within the organization. Some Italian books put the "membership" of Camorra at between 5,000 and 7,000, this is very comparable to the estimated membership of Ndrangheta and Cosa Nostra. What is the base behind this? Where does this number even come from? In Campania, there has always been a huge number of people working under the clans, in various activities, like the associates of LCN families. But not all of them can be called "Camorrista".

This is from the book The Camorra: Political Criminality in Italy:

"For most ordinary people, the fear of violence is far more threatening than any specific criminal activity, and politicians tend to devote much of their time and ultimately public and police resources to this low-level crime, thus leaving higher Camorra levels untouched. Indeed it is arguably the ‘foot-soldiers’ who are the ‘fall guys’ for the real camorristi.

The thousands of young people who sell contraband cigarettes and small amounts of drugs, extort money through protection rackets and
organise illegal gambling rings are individuals with no direct influence on a gang's policy; they simply have to accept their boss's word and
decisions as law. These people are likely to die very young or spend long periods in jail, as they lack the money to either hire good lawyers
or make friends within the judiciary, which would enable them to secure acquittals or suspended sentences. They are also useful cannon fodder for politicians who need to silence any criticisms that they are ‘soft on crime’."

[BeatiPaoli]

To Everyone: Good question. Deserves a detailed answer. Also, while I certainly would not dispute those academics who have thoroughly researched the subject of Camorra membership, there is a visceral part of me that finds it difficult to intellectualize the reality of a "secret criminal society" in Italy that has no formal membership ritual of ANY kind, surrounded by several major and minor secret criminal societies with some form of ritual induction. In addition, I keep remembering the confessions of (IIRC) Cosa Nostra member Leonardo Messina who proclaimed (and I am paraphrasing from memory) "Cosa Nostra, Ndrangheta, Camorra, we are all the same thing."

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[CabriniGreen]

I dont think the board really cares, imo....

[ThutmosisChen]

I dont think the board really cares, imo....

Yeah maybe. I would definitely ask in an Italian forum if I speak the language, but this place is the most informative discussion source I can use, unless I email some Camorra scholars and see if they reply...

[PolackTony]

I dont think the board really cares, imo....

Speaking for myself, I certainly care but do not have anything like the requisite knowledge of the modern Camorra to address the original question.

What little I know is about the old “Bella Società”, which as already has been mentioned, was alleged to have conducted its own initiation practices. From what I recall, there were multiple ranks of status or membership in the old Camorra, each with their own initiation, much like the degrees in Freemasonry. The overall picture seemed to have been rather similar to the modern ‘Ndrangheta, unsurprising given the likely shared origins of both practices in the old prison “Camorre/Piccioterie” of the Bourbon and post-Risorgimento 19th century. Related to that history, my understanding is that Camorra-like societies were present outside of Metro Napoli as well, though it seems like the big Camorra trials of the early 20th century that smashed the old Bella Società seemed to have only dismantled the urban society. I’ve wondered to what degree elements of the older practices remained in provincial areas like Salerno.

I share with Beati and the OP a difficulty in understanding what reports of contemporary Camorra “membership” mean in organizational terms and have a hard time believing that there is no sense of “membership” in some formal sense even if there are no initiation ceremonies. Even street gangs hold formal “induction” ceremonies and mark a formal distinction between members and non-members (as Cabrini is aware, in Chicago these inductions can be quite ritualized and involve the transmission of what is taken as “esoteric” knowledge specific to formal members of the organization). It may just be the case that when the modern Camorra reconstituted itself in the post-War period it reflected mainly the informal/familial networks of affiliation of crime in Napoli with just an echo of the old Bella Società in the name “Camorra”, but with none of the formal, organizational trappings.

[motorfab]

I dont think the board really cares, imo....

Speaking for myself, I certainly care but do not have anything like the requisite knowledge of the modern Camorra to address the original question.

What little I know is about the old “Bella Società”, which as already has been mentioned, was alleged to have conducted its own initiation practices. From what I recall, there were multiple ranks of status or membership in the old Camorra, each with their own initiation, much like the degrees in Freemasonry. The overall picture seemed to have been rather similar to the modern ‘Ndrangheta, unsurprising given the likely shared origins of both practices in the old prison “Camorre/Piccioterie” of the Bourbon and post-Risorgimento 19th century. Related to that history, my understanding is that Camorra-like societies were present outside of Metro Napoli as well, though it seems like the big Camorra trials of the early 20th century that smashed the old Bella Società seemed to have only dismantled the urban society. I’ve wondered to what degree elements of the older practices remained in provincial areas like Salerno.

I share with Beati and the OP a difficulty in understanding what reports of contemporary Camorra “membership” mean in organizational terms and have a hard time believing that there is no sense of “membership” in some formal sense even if there are no initiation ceremonies. Even street gangs hold formal “induction” ceremonies and mark a formal distinction between members and non-members (as Cabrini is aware, in Chicago these inductions can be quite ritualized and involve the transmission of what is taken as “esoteric” knowledge specific to formal members of the organization). It may just be the case that when the modern Camorra reconstituted itself in the post-War period it reflected mainly the informal/familial networks of affiliation of crime in Napoli with just an echo of the old Bella Società in the name “Camorra”, but with none of the formal, organizational trappings.

+1. From my point of view there is more things happening in Italy/Europe/Canada/Australia than USA, and today my main interest on mafia's History is rather in these places than the USA.

And to be honest, I'm not really knowledgable about the Camorra, so this thread interests me very much. I know a little bit the stories of Zaza or Cutolo but that's it

[CabriniGreen]

I thought Savianos book explained it well..

[Etna]

As CabriniGreen said, Saviano's book explains it. The Camorra in Naples isn't like a secret society anymore. It's referred to as "the System" for a reason. It seems to have transformed into an underground economy that isn't necessarily held to the code of silence of formal rules like Cosa Nostra & 'Nrangheta. But rather, you go to work and get a weekly pay rate.

That's why you have so much fragmentation amongst its clans - there is no overarching commission that enforces any such rules. Everyone receives a salary, as opposed to kicking up a percentage.

[CabriniGreen]

As CabriniGreen said, Saviano's book explains it. The Camorra in Naples isn't like a secret society anymore. It's referred to as "the System" for a reason. It seems to have transformed into an underground economy that isn't necessarily held to the code of silence of formal rules like Cosa Nostra & 'Nrangheta. But rather, you go to work and get a weekly pay rate.

That's why you have so much fragmentation amongst its clans - there is no overarching commission that enforces any such rules. Everyone receives a salary, as opposed to kicking up a percentage.

Absolutely.....spot on.


@PolackTony

Great post....

[ThutmosisChen]

Everyone receives a salary instead of kicking up? That sounds even more organized than the other mafias. If you only kick up a percentage the bosses are only going to get their share of the profit but if the bosses collect all the cash and pay everyone else a salary they would have much tighter control on their people, like a real company with centralized finance. I can`t imagine these "loosely-affiliated" clans running like that. Are you sure it`s not only the low-level errand boys who get a salary and real Camorristi kick up to the boss? I think in many cases Saviano`s book was talking about these nearly-ordinary people who were employed by the Camorra in illegal industries instead of the actual ring leaders.

[Shellackhead]

My cousin told me traffickers for the Camorra get paid 700 euros a week, which is good but you know if you get caught there’s a big possibility that the local boss won’t help you so you’re fucked

[CabriniGreen]

My cousin told me traffickers for the Camorra get paid 700 euros a week, which is good but you know if you get caught there’s a big possibility that the local boss won’t help you so you’re fucked

If it's one of the larger clans, they pay out a monthly stipend....

[Strax]

Camorra is more like a huge street gang , they are not like 'Ndrangheta or Sicilian mafia.Because of that Camorra clans appear and disappear every few years , people changing sides , its complete mess in Naples , compared to Calabria or Sicily.