Mad Sam DeStefano

[PolackTony]

In regards to loansharking in Chicago, as far as we can tell when/how did it start? I thought it would've been 'always' there in some form, but I occasionally see Mad Sam as 'one of the first' loansharks, while on that VPOD show on youtube they describe Teets Battaglia as damn near the first Italian to ever run a shy, and I've also heard how Fiore Buccieri is a loansharking virtuoso lol

Were they loansharking in the Capone-era and the pre-Giancana era?

I don’t have a source for it, but my understanding is that Jewish gangsters in Chicago really founded the juice racket (hence the term “vig” being used in Chicago, even though “juice” became more popular). I’ve wondered if Jake Guzik or his dad brought Capone in on this game (though offhand I’m not sure that the Capone gang was really into loansharking). I’ve also wondered if the Outfit got into juice big time with the absorption of important North Lawndale Jewish mobsters like Patrick and Yaras. Either way, it does seem that the Westside/Taylor St guys (Battaglia, Buccieri, Daddono, DeStefano) really blazed the trial in making juice a major racket for Chicago, though Cerone was of course also one of the prime players. This further leads me to wonder how much they were influenced by the Westside Jewish guys here. By the 1960s, pretty much everyone was in the juice racket; Louie Bombacino claimed that essentially every made guy had a juice operation going.

[Antiliar]

Usury has been around for thousands of years and is condemned in the Bible. Modern loan sharking, which is usury plus the use of violence to enforce payment collections, appears to have started - at least in the United States - with Arnold Rothstein. It's said that he used Monk Eastman to collect loans in the 1910s. If this is true (there's a lot of mythinformation around about both Rothstein and Eastman), then maybe Rothstein was the first to use the term "vigorish" in modern gang parlance. Others copied him and it spread around the country. But Italians also made loans. Joe Bonanno in his book Man of Honor noted that his father (going from memory, so it's possible I have the wrong person) made loans while in New York. So the practice probably existed in Sicily in the 19th century.

[InCamelot]

Usury has been around for thousands of years and is condemned in the Bible. Modern loan sharking, which is usury plus the use of violence to enforce payment collections, appears to have started - at least in the United States - with Arnold Rothstein. It's said that he used Monk Eastman to collect loans in the 1910s. If this is true (there's a lot of mythinformation around about both Rothstein and Eastman), then maybe Rothstein was the first to use the term "vigorish" in modern gang parlance. Others copied him and it spread around the country. But Italians also made loans. Joe Bonanno in his book Man of Honor noted that his father (going from memory, so it's possible I have the wrong person) made loans while in New York. So the practice probably existed in Sicily in the 19th century.

Do you happen to know approximately when it became 'popularized'/common in Chicago?

[Antiliar]

Do you happen to know approximately when it became 'popularized'/common in Chicago?

There are stories about loan sharks in Chicago going back to 1897. The Chicago papers reported on loan sharking elsewhere going back to 1888. The first report of loan sharking using the term "juice loans" and involving Outfit guys (in this case Fifi and Frank Buccieri) goes back to 1961.

[CornerBoy]

You gotta wonder how DeStefano would have acted around Tony Accardo and Paul Ricca - I have to assume the entire fucking facade that guy had going was dropped. I also wonder if Ricca and Accardo would have known DeStefano close enough to meet with him alone - its something having a guy like that over to your house. Clearly they didn't see the wild psycho others did or they probably would have kept him at arm's length - I think it goes to show DeStefano was more like Gigante - a really clever act.

great point

[Villain]

There are stories about loan sharks in Chicago going back to 1897. The Chicago papers reported on loan sharking elsewhere going back to 1888.

Since the days when the old and original Chicagos Irish mob dominated gambling, they also lent money to many losers, obviously with interest.

[Villain]

You gotta wonder how DeStefano would have acted around Tony Accardo and Paul Ricca - I have to assume the entire fucking facade that guy had going was dropped. I also wonder if Ricca and Accardo would have known DeStefano close enough to meet with him alone - its something having a guy like that over to your house. Clearly they didn't see the wild psycho others did or they probably would have kept him at arm's length - I think it goes to show DeStefano was more like Gigante - a really clever act.

great point

I think it started as an act, but later it became real. Forcing your own wife at gunpoint to have sex with a total stranger (black man) is not an act at all. Its original craziness.

[Antiliar]

You gotta wonder how DeStefano would have acted around Tony Accardo and Paul Ricca - I have to assume the entire fucking facade that guy had going was dropped. I also wonder if Ricca and Accardo would have known DeStefano close enough to meet with him alone - its something having a guy like that over to your house. Clearly they didn't see the wild psycho others did or they probably would have kept him at arm's length - I think it goes to show DeStefano was more like Gigante - a really clever act.

great point

I think it started as an act, but later it became real. Forcing your own wife at gunpoint to have sex with a total stranger (black man) is not an act at all. Its original craziness.

More evil than craziness in my opinion. He knew what he was doing.

[SolarSolano]

I think stories like the wife and black stranger thing may have also been made-up. Sam DeStefano Jr. (son of Mario and a Grand Ave associate himself) shared some insight on his uncle in the old facebook group. Most of the stories were just bullshit. Mad Sam's wife also wrote a cooking book after Sam passed away if I am not mistaken.

[Villain]

I think stories like the wife and black stranger thing may have also been made-up. Sam DeStefano Jr. (son of Mario and a Grand Ave associate himself) shared some insight on his uncle in the old facebook group. Most of the stories were just bullshit. Mad Sam's wife also wrote a cooking book after Sam passed away if I am not mistaken.

I think theres a police report in which the black dude reported Mad Sam to the cops and his lunch box was found in Sams car.

Regarding Sam DeStefano Jr, i think he was involved in the burglary biz together with Jimmy Legs, Sal Romano, Guy Altobello, Joe Basinski, Robert Paul and Willie Brown. These Grand Av associates usually received orders from guys like that corrupt cop Bill Hanhardt and also the Indian Schiro, and probably from other Grand members too, like the Ant and the Mooch.

[Snakes]

I think stories like the wife and black stranger thing may have also been made-up. Sam DeStefano Jr. (son of Mario and a Grand Ave associate himself) shared some insight on his uncle in the old facebook group. Most of the stories were just bullshit. Mad Sam's wife also wrote a cooking book after Sam passed away if I am not mistaken.

I think theres a police report in which the black dude reported Mad Sam to the cops and his lunch box was found in Sams car.

Regarding Sam DeStefano Jr, i think he was involved in the burglary biz together with Jimmy Legs, Sal Romano, Guy Altobello, Joe Basinski, Robert Paul and Willie Brown. These Grand Av associates usually received orders from guys like that corrupt cop Bill Hanhardt and also the Indian Schiro, and probably from other Grand members too, like the Ant and the Mooch.

James D'Antonio, too

[Villain]

I think stories like the wife and black stranger thing may have also been made-up. Sam DeStefano Jr. (son of Mario and a Grand Ave associate himself) shared some insight on his uncle in the old facebook group. Most of the stories were just bullshit. Mad Sam's wife also wrote a cooking book after Sam passed away if I am not mistaken.

I think theres a police report in which the black dude reported Mad Sam to the cops and his lunch box was found in Sams car.

Regarding Sam DeStefano Jr, i think he was involved in the burglary biz together with Jimmy Legs, Sal Romano, Guy Altobello, Joe Basinski, Robert Paul and Willie Brown. These Grand Av associates usually received orders from guys like that corrupt cop Bill Hanhardt and also the Indian Schiro, and probably from other Grand members too, like the Ant and the Mooch.

James D'Antonio, too

I already mentioned Jimmy Legs lol

[Snakes]

I think stories like the wife and black stranger thing may have also been made-up. Sam DeStefano Jr. (son of Mario and a Grand Ave associate himself) shared some insight on his uncle in the old facebook group. Most of the stories were just bullshit. Mad Sam's wife also wrote a cooking book after Sam passed away if I am not mistaken.

I think theres a police report in which the black dude reported Mad Sam to the cops and his lunch box was found in Sams car.

Regarding Sam DeStefano Jr, i think he was involved in the burglary biz together with Jimmy Legs, Sal Romano, Guy Altobello, Joe Basinski, Robert Paul and Willie Brown. These Grand Av associates usually received orders from guys like that corrupt cop Bill Hanhardt and also the Indian Schiro, and probably from other Grand members too, like the Ant and the Mooch.

James D'Antonio, too

I already mentioned Jimmy Legs lol

Sorry, can't read

[Villain]

I think stories like the wife and black stranger thing may have also been made-up. Sam DeStefano Jr. (son of Mario and a Grand Ave associate himself) shared some insight on his uncle in the old facebook group. Most of the stories were just bullshit. Mad Sam's wife also wrote a cooking book after Sam passed away if I am not mistaken.

I think theres a police report in which the black dude reported Mad Sam to the cops and his lunch box was found in Sams car.

Regarding Sam DeStefano Jr, i think he was involved in the burglary biz together with Jimmy Legs, Sal Romano, Guy Altobello, Joe Basinski, Robert Paul and Willie Brown. These Grand Av associates usually received orders from guys like that corrupt cop Bill Hanhardt and also the Indian Schiro, and probably from other Grand members too, like the Ant and the Mooch.

James D'Antonio, too

I already mentioned Jimmy Legs lol

Sorry, can't read

Its ok bud.

The so-called “masterminds” of the group were allegedly Schiro and Hanhardt, but the “leader of the pack” was allegedly Basinski. He was a long time partner in crime with both men and he was the one who gathered all of the guys and later directed all activities.

Basinski’s job was also to identify the potential targets by doing physical surveillance and running database searches, and later through telephone calls he informed his people regarding the target. If it was needed, he even recruited additional members for big time jobs and also fenced the stolen loot.

Altobello’s job was to provide the other members of the crew with information regarding jewellery salespersons who conducted business with Altobello Jewelers, Inc., which was his personal jewellery store, and in addition to identifying salespersons, Altobello also provided information about the type and quality of merchandise they carried and how it was transported, their schedules, the vehicle license plates, and the type of vehicles they drove. In fact, he provided crucial information about the targets, thus making him an important and a significant contributor to the operations.

D’Antonio’s job was to provide the gang with all the needed tools and instruments for the operation in order to assist in gaining access to vehicles, hotel rooms, safety deposit boxes and other locations, also tools to avoid detection or to escape law enforcement, including locksmith tools, key-making machines, related publications, automobile instruction books, automobile keys, hotel keys, key blanks, lock picks, "slim jims," smoke grenades, fake mustaches and fake beard, key cutting dies, wrenches and other hand tools, evasion devices, taser, cam set, key cutters, bullet proof vests, cameras, listening devices, and key code books. In other words, the guy had everything.

Robert Paul was the guy with the mobile phones, walkie-talkies and all kinds of electronic communicators and Sal Romano knew how to handle alarms and he often traveled to Las Vegas where he operated with the “Hole in the Wall” gang, which in turn were betrayed by Romano since he wore a wire for the feds since 1979.

Now, usually the guys which did the street stuff or “dirty work” were Willy Brown, Basinski, DeStefano Jr and Schiro, or sometimes only Schiro managed to finish the job all by himself. Confidential informants identified DeStefano Jr, Basinski, Altobello and Brown as associates, while Schiro and D’Antonio were identified as members of the Outfit.

[UTC]

I think stories like the wife and black stranger thing may have also been made-up. Sam DeStefano Jr. (son of Mario and a Grand Ave associate himself) shared some insight on his uncle in the old facebook group. Most of the stories were just bullshit. Mad Sam's wife also wrote a cooking book after Sam passed away if I am not mistaken.

And after that little encounter it was about how to make soul food.

I imagine Colosimo and his guys were into loans.