How do guys refer to other families?

[ChicagoOutfit]

We know that the names of the 5 Families were from the Valachi area and media/LE used those names and it kind of just stuck. But how does guys within these families refer to the other families? I've heard it all from "they don't use the names given by the media" to hearing guys that flipped refer to the other families by the common names we've all known and heard.

For example, Sammy talking about how he got his start with the Colombos and using that name to describe it.

Are there any wire taps of guys talking and referring to the other families by name?

I'm sure guys refer to families outside of NYC as "jersey," "Chicago," "Philly," "Milwaukee," "KC," etc. For example if a Chicago guy is referring to someone from Philly he's likely to just say "philly" over "Scarfo/Bruno Family" since there's only one family in each of these cities thus no confusion.

We all know the Genovese are/were referred to "the Westside" but correct me if I'm wrong, didn't that just refer to the Admin of that family when the power was base in Greenwich Village? What about origins of the term Westside? Did this refer to the docks on the westside of manhattan that the family controlled? Or did the term specifically refer to Greenwich VIllage being on the west side of the city? Is this term still used now that the power base has changed?

How did guys refer to the other families PRIOR to the common names being established? Would it just have been referred to as the "[current boss' name] Family?" Obviously they were more cautious with how they speak than regular people and they weren't out there saying "I gotta meet with Joe from the XYZ crime family," but there had to be some way for them to reference each other without confusion...

Thanks to all who can give more insight.

[B.]

It would mainly be an issue in NYC and places where multiple Families exist in one place. In Sicily they refer to them by village and in Palermo by neighborhood (sometimes using historic names no longer in official municipal use).

- Joe Bonanno called his group the Castellammarese Family in his book. Kiduknow and I were just talking about an old report from the 1940s after the Tresca hit where LE referred to the Bonannos as the "Castellammare" group and already knew Bonanno and Garofalo were the top two guys. I think the early compaesani (men from the same Sicilian hometown) nature of the Families made this common early on. There's an old letter where Giuseppe Morello listed some prominent members of his Family and called them "all of Corleone". Seems this was used for the whole Family if it was dominated by a certain village. This was true for factions within a Family too, i.e. Nick Gentile calling the Gambino Agrigento crews the "Sciacchitani" because a lot of them were from Sciacca.

- Outside of NYC it was obviously by city in a lot of cases, i.e. Cleveland Family, etc. Philadelphia appears to have had multiple small compaesani Families early on and Riccobene/Celeste Morello ID'd them based on their village.

- There are old accounts that Antiliar and Christie talked about in their Informer article where people said "House of Schiro" and "House of Lupo", the current bosses at the time. I think Joe Bonanno said Maranzano used "House of Schiro" in a meeting with Masseria.

- Massino said they would call the Families the name of the current boss but would use the media/LE names as a buffer.

- A lot of it was inferred. If a guy said he is "with" a certain member or captain people would know what that meant. The people who needed to know would understand.

- Like a lot of this stuff, the members themselves just adopt the public names. You have guys who call it "La Cosa Nostra" today. Ed has a good article related to this: https://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/mafialacosanostra.html

- Even the term "mafia" is believed to have been more of a media creation in Sicily, not an actual name but some members went on to use it.

-

Basically a good way to summarize it is that the organization and Families have never had an official name, using euphemisms and whatever suits them at the time. The Families were clearly distinct and all of the ranks had specific terms, but the groups didn't and in theory still don't have official names.

[Wiseguy]

The names of the 5 families are set in stone at this point, including for the members themselves.

The only exception, as pointed out, is the Genovese family being called "the West Side." My understanding is the term did originate with Gigante's Greenwich Village crew but it eventually became a nickname for the family as a whole.

There was a time when a family may be referred to by the current boss' first name. For example, referring to the Colombos as "Carmine's family" back in the day. Or "the Chin's family." But I'm not sure any of the bosses today have the name recognition.

[B.]

I've seen reports from members who described the Lucchese Family as "Ducks' Family" long after Corallo was gone. Not as common as the "Westside" but it was in use with some members. Not sure if Pennisi has commented on that, might not be in use now.

Never seen them use anything but Bonanno, Colombo, and Gambino for those Families in modern years. I have noticed a couple references to "18th avenue" now that the Sicilian faction is in charge, though not sure if it's used to refer to the entire Family or just the powerbase.

Massino's explanation:

A - When we made guys, we were told this is the Massino name,
but you're never to mention it. You're always to say it's the
Bonnano family.
So whenever you make an introduction, if there's a
bug someplace, they're going to pick up the Bonnano family,
not the Massino family, and that was the reason for that.

Q - When you said guys were made, they were made into the
Massino family, why did the name of the family change?

A - It changed because if you was to talk, and you was -- you
don't know where people make introductions. They can make
introductions in clubs. They're not supposed to, but they do
it all the time.
They might say this guy is the Massino family and
there's the boss there. You're establishing that I'm the
boss.

Q - Right, but why was the Bonnano family called the Massino
family when you were the boss?

A - The Bonnano family we used, so if you pick it up on the
bug, you would hear just Bonnano family, but if you picked up
Massino family on the bug, you would know it's me.

Q - What was the tradition within the organized crime upon
changing the family name upon making a new boss?

A - You don't.

Q - So at induction ceremonies, why were members being told
they were being made into the Massino family?

A - You told that, like the other families, this is the Gotti
family, but you are going to say this is the Gambino family.
With the Persico family, it's the Colombo family. The Gigante
family -- they tell them who the boss is, but you're not to
use their name.

Q - So just to be clear, what was the official name of the
crime family after you became the boss?

A - Bonnano family.

[furiofromnaples]

I only know that the L.A. family was called the Mickey Mouse Mafia.

[motorfab]

I only know that the L.A. family was called the Mickey Mouse Mafia.

It was only when Fratianno flipped circa 1979 and it was a press thing

[Pogo The Clown]

I've seen reports from members who described the Lucchese Family as "Ducks' Family" long after Corallo was gone. Not as common as the "Westside" but it was in use with some members. Not sure if Pennisi has commented on that, might not be in use now.

Never seen them use anything but Bonanno, Colombo, and Gambino for those Families in modern years. I have noticed a couple references to "18th avenue" now that the Sicilian faction is in charge, though not sure if it's used to refer to the entire Family or just the powerbase.

In one of the Genovese bugs from the early 2000s Sammy Aparo refers to the Bonannos as "Joe's family".


Pogo

[B.]

The Ear wouldn't have liked that one.

Got to love the recent taped ceremony:

"Everybody approved it, so from this day forward, you’re a member of the Bonanno family. Congratulations."

[Eld]

During 1980s/90s the Luchese family were at times referred to as "19th Hole". If I remember right one instance was the Gotti Jr wedding list.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

You brought up Valachi, he would refer to the Lucchese member as someone being "with Tommy Brown", etc. He was a Harlem guy so he mostly referred to Genovese and Lucchese. When it came to Genovese he would just refer to captains. I'm not sure how often these guys address family names, like the names the media uses. They just talk about who so and so is "with", and then mostly use nicknames.

[Antiliar]

I only know that the L.A. family was called the Mickey Mouse Mafia.

No, L.A. wasn't called the Mickey Mouse Mafia. That was a pejorative slapped on the L.A. Family by LAPD Chief Daryl Gates.

[Antiliar]

Another way to refer to the Families was like "the Gambinos" or "the Bonannos," and in Italian would have been the "borgata di Gambino" etc. Later the word borgata was Americanized to "brugad," so it would be "the Gambino brugad" ("borgata" means "borough" or "village"). There were/are local names for the Families outside New York City:
Chicago - The Outfit (several other cities also called their borgatas "the Outfit"); Giancana called it "the clique"
Buffalo - The Arm
New England - The Office

[PolackTony]

Another way to refer to the Families was like "the Gambinos" or "the Bonannos," and in Italian would have been the "borgata di Gambino" etc. Later the word borgata was Americanized to "brugad," so it would be "the Gambino brugad" ("borgata" means "borough" or "village"). There were/are local names for the Families outside New York City:
Chicago - The Outfit (several other cities also called their borgatas "the Outfit"); Giancana called it "the clique"
Buffalo - The Arm
New England - The Office

The KC family also referred to itself as “the clique” as well as “the outfit”. Other names I’ve seen cited in FBI intel as alleged emic (insider) terms for Chicago were “the syndicate”, “the family”, “our people” and the “Black Hand” (the latter claimed by Lou Bombacino).

Accounts from Philly in the 60s refer to their borgata as “the greasers” as well as”the syndicate”.

[Antiliar]

In Los Angeles it "the Outfit" or "the Situation" (that's way before Mike "the Situation" Sorrentino)

[B.]

Sam DeCavalcante used "outfit" to refer to many Families on his tapes also.

Cleveland and Milwaukee used "outfit" heavily as well.