In light of the recent Colombo bust, my observations.

[Villain]

You know I respect you WG and i expected an adult response from you with facts and examples. Ill leave it like this since you're older than me and I have respect for old ppl. Read Eboli's and some of my latest post on this subject. Believe it or not, your favorite team is just a copy of other previous or older organizations. I know it hurts but reality can be quite painful and you have to be a real man to accept it. Cheers

First, you can't accuse me of the team rooting thing. I'm the guy who's calling others out on that all the time. If I was of the same mentality, I'd probably be arguing that LCN is still relevant in multiple cities, etc. I'm the guy who says it's basically down to New York, with a few other areas where there's a small weak presence. So that accusation isn't going to fly.

Second, you can find this group or that group that may have done X, Y, or Z like LCN. Irish gangsters had political and police connections. Jewish gangsters were some of the early pioneers in labor racketeering. Some groups have been relatively diversified. Many have invested in legitimate businesses. But no other crime group in the U.S. has done all of those things in that quote I posted above; let alone to the level or scope, or for as long, as LCN. That can't be disputed.

Finally, since when is 43 old?

Damn i thought you were over 60...my bad

The base for oc in the US was established by other groups, not by CN

[Villain]

§ 14-12.3. Certain secret societies prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to join, unite himself with, become a member of, apply for membership in, form, organize, solicit members for, combine and agree with any person or persons to form or organize, or to encourage, aid or assist in any way any secret political society or any secret military society or any secret society having for a purpose the violating or circumventing the laws of the State. (1953, c. 1193, s. 2.)

§ 14-12.4. Use of signs, grips, passwords or disguises or taking or administering oath for illegal purposes.
It shall be unlawful for any person to use, agree to use, or to encourage, aid or assist in the using of any signs, grips, passwords, disguise of the face, person or voice, or any disguise whatsoever in the furtherance of any illegal secret political purpose, any illegal secret military purpose, or any purpose of violating or circumventing the laws of the State; and it shall be unlawful for any person to take or administer, or agree to take or administer, any extrajudicial oath or secret solemn pledge to further any illegal secret political purpose, any illegal secret military purpose, or any purpose of violating or circumventing the laws of the State. (1953, c. 1193, s. 3.)

[B.]

It´s like the question what came first, the chicken or the egg? The Mafia would not have used a law abiding priest to carry mob money. But once the priest is made, he is obligated to fulfill his oath.

Also much more value not to use them that way.

Having a Cosa Nostra member in the church alone was unreal power in a Sicilian village back then. That's just one guy too, who knows who else was made in those villages.

Investigators in the late 1800s heard about the boss of a Family who was a priest. He isn't going to force himself to commit crimes, because being a village priest and Cosa Nostra boss gives him everything he needs.

Can't remember if it was the same guy but there was a mafioso priest in Agrigento who killed his own cousin in the town square. I agree it's criminal by definition but the mafia doesn't see it that way. They see it like state-sponsored execution or war most of the time.

[Villain]

[B.]

Nice find. Says the priest with the mafia brother was in Caccamo. Did it have a name?

[Villain]

Nice find. Says the priest with the mafia brother was in Caccamo. Did it have a name?

I think the priest's name was Giuseppe Monastero

[motorfab]

Nice find. Says the priest with the mafia brother was in Caccamo. Did it have a name?

I think the priest's name was Giuseppe Monastero

He chose his vocation as a priest because of his name ?

[Villain]

Nice find. Says the priest with the mafia brother was in Caccamo. Did it have a name?

I think the priest's name was Giuseppe Monastero

He chose his vocation as a priest because of his name ?

Anything is possible lol

[B.]

Nice find. Says the priest with the mafia brother was in Caccamo. Did it have a name?

I think the priest's name was Giuseppe Monastero

Oh that's a big time name there. Makes sense.

[Wiseguy]

The base for oc in the US was established by other groups, not by CN

You'd have to expound on what you mean by "base for OC," as well as what groups.

Are you talking about Tammany Hall? The 19th century NY gangs like the Chichesters, Forty Thieves, Bowery Boys, etc? There were Chinese Tong members who showed up in San Francisco and New York pretty early on. We see Irish, Jewish and Italian gangsters all there prior to Prohibition.

[Brickhouse101]

Rarely post but I’ll give it a go. Growing up in the Long Island/queens area I can say that LCN is without a doubt a criminal organization. It is also a culture. There are many people who have no real care for LCN but wake up, go to a bar and hustle and bet and basically have their daily life influenced by the LCN culture. A huge amount aren’t even Italian. The “mafia lifestyle” in the metropolitan area has many aspects. You have the bettors and bookies in the bar who really have no interest in LCN culture or lifestyle but fuel it, you have the real deal associates and made guys in restaurants and remaining clubs, you have the drug pushers, you have the union workers who may intermingle with everyone I listed above, you have construction workers, finance guys, etc. All of them may bet, do drugs, frequent mafia spots. There is a portion of those people that associate themselves with that particular lifestyle who don’t engage in crime, however they are fully aware of the criminal aspect of the lifestyle and, to be honest, are only law abiding bc they don’t have the balls or aren’t trusted enough to be involved. It is very easy to sit back and overthink LCN but there is a reality. It’s a criminal organization that provides protection for criminals underneath its umbrella. It is ALSO a culture that is thoroughly based on the act of committing crime and/or portraying oneself as such. There is absolutely no one in this day and age who thinks of it as anything other than a criminal organization. There is absolutely no aspect of it that isn’t criminal. Sorry.

Also, The idea of LCN not being the basis of traditional organized crime in the USA is absolutely laughable. Yes there were other organized crime groups before LCN but there is not a single group that has had the success, organization and ability to infiltrate mainstream society like LCN. LCN did not base itself on any organization other than traditional Italian OC nor did it see any significant influence from any other organization during its inception. Did it get help from Jewish and Irish organizations? Yes. Was it the junior partner in those relationships? Sometimes it was, however there is no indication that LCN wasn’t going to be anything but what it wanted to be throughout its entire existence.

[Villain]

The base for oc in the US was established by other groups, not by CN

You'd have to expound on what you mean by "base for OC," as well as what groups.

Are you talking about Tammany Hall? The 19th century NY gangs like the Chichesters, Forty Thieves, Bowery Boys, etc? There were Chinese Tong members who showed up in San Francisco and New York pretty early on. We see Irish, Jewish and Italian gangsters all there prior to Prohibition.

If you already havent...whenever you have the time pls read these two articles bro...regarding who started what in Chicago (i think the same situation was on the east coast at the time because this other groups had a national network)...and later pls give me your most honest opinion

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7242 (mostly organizational stuff but it still explains my theory)

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=52 (i would prefer to read this one first but still it doesnt matter)

[Villain]

Nice find. Says the priest with the mafia brother was in Caccamo. Did it have a name?

I think the priest's name was Giuseppe Monastero

Oh that's a big time name there. Makes sense.

Mafia family?

[B.]

Yeah, one of the murdered New Orleans guys and his son who was killed in Pittsburgh, Monasteros from Caccamo. Maybe the Chicago guy Sam Monastero too.

[PolackTony]

Yeah, one of the murdered New Orleans guys and his son who was killed in Pittsburgh, Monasteros from Caccamo. Maybe the Chicago guy Sam Monastero too.

I have the Chicago Salvatore Monastero -- killed in 1930 -- as born in Ciminna, along with both of his parents. Given the proximity of the two comuni, it's certainly possible that they had some relation to the Monasteros in Caccamo but I didn't see any direct link to Caccamo.