Persico was a rat?

[Raven]

Not be go off topic, but does anyone know when Persico was actually "made"?

[Snakes]

Here is the image:



Piggybacking off of dack's post, if this is all they have I'm not sure how they could make the definitive conclusion that Persico is an informant. The document above seems to be a listing of Colombo captains and which informants have identified them as such. You can see that 3461-C-TE is listed multiple times, meaning that 3461-C-TE identified all three (plus the fourth redacted name) as Colombo capos, not that 3461-C-TE is specifically Carmine Persico. Additionally, there are redacted informant codes; these would be informants in addition to 3461-C-TE who have also identified Persico, et.al. as capos. Basically, I'd need to see what else they have before making a conclusion.

[newera_212]

Not be go off topic, but does anyone know when Persico was actually "made"?

When Moses wore short pants

[johnny_scootch]

Not be go off topic, but does anyone know when Persico was actually "made"?

When Moses wore short pants

Pike’s peak was a pimple back then wasn’t it?

[Raven]

Couple of comedians, huh. It was a serious question.

[johnny_scootch]

Couple of comedians, huh. It was a serious question.

Sorry I couldn’t resist. I think he was made real young before they closed the books. His brother had to go to NE to get straightened out so Carmine was def made before all that. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

[Raven]

It's all good. Thanks for the info.

[SolarSolano]

Was he sponsored by Frank Abbatemarco? I always tended to think there was more of a two way street among LE and mob bosses than we would have expected - ie informing on rival borgatas, exchanging info to get some back, etc. I wonder how loose that CI term was thrown around.

[Snakes]

Was he sponsored by Frank Abbatemarco? I always tended to think there was more of a two way street among LE and mob bosses than we would have expected - ie informing on rival borgatas, exchanging info to get some back, etc. I wonder how loose that CI term was thrown around.

If they gave info, they were a CI. Tony giving the info to Agent Harris on the Arab guys? Tony was technically a CI.

[mafiastudent]

Here is the image:



Piggybacking off of dack's post, if this is all they have I'm not sure how they could make the definitive conclusion that Persico is an informant. The document above seems to be a listing of Colombo captains and which informants have identified them as such. You can see that 3461-C-TE is listed multiple times, meaning that 3461-C-TE identified all three (plus the fourth redacted name) as Colombo capos, not that 3461-C-TE is specifically Carmine Persico. Additionally, there are redacted informant codes; these would be informants in addition to 3461-C-TE who have also identified Persico, et.al. as capos. Basically, I'd need to see what else they have before making a conclusion.

It's exhibit 4 in Schoen's motion.

[Dave65827]

If it’s true this would be one of the fbis biggest controversies. The fbi let two informants engineer a war and murder 13 people not counting the others killed before hand? Shouldn’t that be a bigger controversy if this is true?

[mafiastudent]

And this document

Case 1:92-cr-00351-EK Document 1829 Filed 04/29/16

[Ryan98366]

For a guy who spent so much time in prison…what good did being an informant do for him? I don’t believe it because the benefit of being an informant is staying out of jail. Carmine Persico was a frequent flyer in prison.

Scarpa and Whitey Bulger were informants. They never went to prison. It kept them on the streets.

This doesn’t add up. Sorry.

[Stroccos]

I don't know what you mean by "actual" laws and LE, but a CI who gets charged in an investigation will still get convicted and serve out a prison sentence. I'm sure agents can pull some strings to make a CI's life easier as long as he is otherwise in good standing, but unless the CI becomes a CW he can't expect significant preferential treatment and might not even want it given the red flags it creates.

If Carmine Persico gave the FBI info at some point it wouldn't have protected him from the Commission case and the Colombo RICO case from the mid-1980s. Same with the case that took him out for most of the 1970s. He would have needed to completely flip and testify.

A good example is tony liberatore out of cleveland gave information to the feds about jackie presser but he wanted nothing in return, he still got a long sentence for his role in the danny greene murder,

[Ed]

I'm skeptical the document shows what Orena's lawyer claims. It seems that the document identifies Perisco's rank within the Columbo Crime Family and then gives the Intel's source. In Perisco's case, Greg Scarpa (NY 3461) provided the Intel, and multiple still redacted sources confirmed it. It's not indicating Perisco is (was) an informant. (I've seen this format used on other declassified FBI documents from the 1960s found on MF.)

If the interpretation of Orena's lawyer is accurate, wouldn't that mean Oddo and Mussachio were also informants? I don't see that.

According to previously declassified FBI documents, the bureau only had six LCN member informants among New York's 5 Families in 1974. However, another document noted the Colombo Crime Family might have had had three member-informants operating in 1975.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6735&p=169851#p169851

(Sally Muschachio died in 1972, and John Oddo in 1975. So either the FBI replaced them as informers, or they probably weren't informers at all.)

I think Orena's lawyer is just muddying the waters for his client. A real Hail Mary.

That said, it wouldn't shock me in the least to learn Persico dry-snitched a bit in the early 1960s during the Gallo-Profaci War.