New arrests in Torretta

[JohnnySalami]

That Vincenzo Varisco owns a restaurant called Lo Chalet in Baucina which was most likely the restaurant that held the meeting

[JohnnySalami]

, Lorenzo Mannino b.1946 (owner of il colosseo restaurant in brooklyn and first cousin of Lorenzo Mannino b.1958) said to a Torretta family member that Zito had to stay away from NY because

Hold up..... Jesus Christ.... IS THIS ANOTHER LORENZO MANNINO?

I'm sitting here wondering why Mannino would tell another family's consigliere to stay away from NY. It's a different Mannino, lol...

That "other" lorenzo actually has a lot of respect both in brooklyn and Sicily. Last time he was in Sicily he got arrested for association. He owns that whole block from 77th to 78th on 18th ave

[felice]

yes that's him, varisco was moving heroin for the gambino brothers in the late 80s. he was living in the usa.

no, lorenzo mannino b.1946 wasn't ever arrested for mafia in italy, his brother calogero was. another brother, luigi, was murdered because he was a hot head.

[felice]

B. you are right, despite they are in two different families they are still part of the same environment. The contrast was about public works and contracts. So we have to expect this Davì will emerge soon in some kind of american investigations. He seems to be legit anyway, he is running a pizzeria and a gelateria in Astoria. Grillo is interesting. Strange how the sicilians sent an american to fix the dispute even because Grillo didn't speak italian.

I have an idea about this. They might have sent an American to be an impartial mediator. An American would have no dog in the fight. Kinda how the Siderno guys didnt trust Bruzzesse to mediate the Colluccio conflict because he was too close to them.


And just to clarfy...

These men under Davi, WERE made men in the Torretta family. Not just Americans with Torettisi ancestry? Whether transfers or whatnot, they originated in Sicily?

Also, could " fixing" the dispute, could it mean he was GIVEN the decision by Mannino or someone, and went to inform them of the judgement?

Just a thought....

yes, that's what I think too

[B.]

These men under Davi, WERE made men in the Torretta family. Not just Americans with Torettisi ancestry? Whether transfers or whatnot, they originated in Sicily?

You're taking "under" too literally. He's not talking about a decina, he's talking about a faction that includes made members of different families, all originally from Torretta. I bet Davi also has influence with Torrettesi civilians based on what Felice said. This is how compaesani relationships work and you see it all through mafia history.

Look at the 1984 FBI report I posted about Montreal:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7504

Second to last paragraph describes a situation very similar to what Felice is sharing about Davi and the Torrettesi in NYC. Davi is in a similar if not identical role as the redacted name (probably Nicolo Rizzuto) said to be under the Bonannos but helps run the Sicilian mafia faction and serves as the liaison between the Bonanno Montreal leadership and the Montreal Sicilian mafia faction.

And you saw this in NYC earlier too.

[stubbs]

, Lorenzo Mannino b.1946 (owner of il colosseo restaurant in brooklyn and first cousin of Lorenzo Mannino b.1958) said to a Torretta family member that Zito had to stay away from NY because

Hold up..... Jesus Christ.... IS THIS ANOTHER LORENZO MANNINO?

Lol, that’s what I thought too. I was reading this report a few days ago about Lorenzo Mannino and his son Giulio who runs Il Colosseo. Turns out, I guess, that I was reading about Lorenzo of 1946 and not 1958.

report can be read here

[B.]

The weirdest thing about this is the cocaine.

An American Cosa Nostra representative visits and they give him a personal amount of cocaine for his visit? Sure, some mafia members use cocaine and maybe they heard Grillo likes it, but something is very off about that part of the story. Almost sounds like they were testing him.

Pennisi talked about how he felt the Sicilian Gambino members tested him when they asked if he wanted to be introduced as "amico nostra" to another guy in a restaurant. Pennisi turned down the offer, saying only if there was a specific reason they needed to be introduced, and he said the Sicilian members smirked at the response. If Pennisi's interpretation is right, sounds like the Sicilians do try to test people.

[CabriniGreen]

These men under Davi, WERE made men in the Torretta family. Not just Americans with Torettisi ancestry? Whether transfers or whatnot, they originated in Sicily?

You're taking "under" too literally. He's not talking about a decina, he's talking about a faction that includes made members of different families, all originally from Torretta. I bet Davi also has influence with Torrettesi civilians based on what Felice said. This is how compaesani relationships work and you see it all through mafia history.

Look at the 1984 FBI report I posted about Montreal:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7504

Second to last paragraph describes a situation very similar to what Felice is sharing about Davi and the Torrettesi in NYC. Davi is in a similar if not identical role as the redacted name (probably Nicolo Rizzuto) said to be under the Bonannos but helps run the Sicilian mafia faction and serves as the liaison between the Bonanno Montreal leadership and the Montreal Sicilian mafia faction.

And you saw this in NYC earlier too.

It says " Sicilian organization" though.... not politically affiliated, and that's what I'm asking about these guys. Are they part of a Sicilian organization, the Torreta family?
But made into American borgata, so not to step on toes, but still seem to answer to Sicilians. You dont see them appointing a Palermo guy to represent everyone from Palermo, or Trapani, or Catania, or anywhere else in Italy.

To me, they look just like the Inzerillos, based partly in NY, and Sicily. When they say only NY could fix the problems in Torreta, I would bet money they mean the Inzerillos, the self styled " Kings of Palermo"...

[B.]

I'm sure the Inzerillos of Passo do Rigano and Lorenzo Mannino/Joe Gambino of the Gambino family were involved in this, would be bizarre if they weren't, but the affiliations and protocol are explained already so not much to theorize about except the politics.

[CabriniGreen]

I'm sure the Inzerillos of Passo do Rigano and Lorenzo Mannino/Joe Gambino of the Gambino family were involved in this, would be bizarre if they weren't, but the affiliations and protocol are explained already so not much to theorize about except the politics.

I see a local issue in Torretta, that couldnt be resolved. So it goes to the next highest level, the madamento. Who control of the Passo di Rigano Madamento? The Inzerillos in NY.

It's similar to the Siderno thing. Where there was a local issue that couldnt be resolved, and the next highest ranking guy left was in Toronto.



So it seems to me like the Passo di Rigano families are based partly in Sicily, partly in NY. This looks like Sicilian mafia stuff to me..... Its why its signifigant to me these expatriate mafiosi identify with being " Torettesi", even across family lines. A Luchesse Torettesi has a beef, do they call his capo, or the Gambino Davi? Who represents him? Is he represented by an American made mobster, as a member of an American regime? Or does he have to be spoken for by a " Torettesi"? You might not think it signifigant, to me it speaks volumes......


I was wondering, How are the Gambinos gonna like, threaten a consigliere? And why? But when they say Zito had a problem in NY, they must mean with the Inzerillos. And with him being under their jurisdiction, it makes sense, Its consistent with Zitos issues with them in the past.

[B.]

They identify as Torrettesi because they're from Torretta. It's important but not something they chose for themselves. It is mysterious that some of them are with the Lucchese family but there is precedent for Gambino-connected Palermitani zips ending up with the Luccheses: Paolo LoDuca, Enzo Napoli, and especially Leo Giammona all "should" have been with the Gambino family but for some reason weren't, yet they still associated close with the Gambinos and Sicilian mafia members way more than the Luccheses and were involved with Sicilian politics. So the Davi situation isn't completely out of nowhere even though we still have questions.

Tommaso Inzerillo is the boss of Passo di Rigano but the "Inzerillos in NY" don't control the mandamento. Felice said the issue was between Davi (Gambino family) and Zito (Torretta family), so it wasn't a matter that could be resolved strictly within the Sicilian mafia structure, hence the Gambino family sending an emmisary. Not sure where you get the idea this all revolves around an international super-organization led by the Inzerillos in NYC -- they are part of this powerful Gambino-Palermo relationship but there are many parts.

[CabriniGreen]

They identify as Torrettesi because they're from Torretta. It's important but not something they chose for themselves. It is mysterious that some of them are with the Lucchese family but there is precedent for Gambino-connected Palermitani zips ending up with the Luccheses: Paolo LoDuca, Enzo Napoli, and especially Leo Giammona all "should" have been with the Gambino family but for some reason weren't, yet they still associated close with the Gambinos and Sicilian mafia members way more than the Luccheses and were involved with Sicilian politics. So the Davi situation isn't completely out of nowhere even though we still have questions.

Tommaso Inzerillo is the boss of Passo di Rigano but the "Inzerillos in NY" don't control the mandamento. Felice said the issue was between Davi (Gambino family) and Zito (Torretta family), so it wasn't a matter that could be resolved strictly within the Sicilian mafia structure, hence the Gambino family sending an emmisary. Not sure where you get the idea this all revolves around an international super-organization led by the Inzerillos in NYC -- they are part of this powerful Gambino-Palermo relationship but there are many parts.

The bolded part....
Lol, dont start sounding like Wiseguy now, that's not what I said.... it's not a super organization, Torretta is tiny, lol. No, they look a lot like the Calabrian colonies we see today. Based in Italy and....somewhere else. They will have a command structure in some tiny town in Italy, and operations overseas or in Europe in a large city. Always a designated messenger. Usually based around a dominant family or families..... The patterns are unmistakable at this point. .... this is how the strong Italian clans do it.



As far as to why some ended up Luchesses, I've already given my ideas on that. That it was a political compromise initiated from Sicily, to curb NY influence within Sicilian mafia politics, as well as give certain mafiosi " working "privileges in NY. Basically as we see, they are made into American families, yet still identify as "Torretesi". Which to me, means a reference to organization, not a shared kinship. And still respond and react to events in Sicilian mafia politics. Because they still have allegiance there. Why does allegiance to Sicily resonate as being AGAINST the Americans to you guys?


You really dont think the Inzerillos control the Passo di Rigano madamento? This is a serious question, if not them, then who? The boss of Uditore? We see Toretta responding to Passo di Rigano, theres only 3 families in the madamento. Felice said DiMaggio was " elected", but really he was installed by the Inzerillos, that speaks volumes about their influence. Also, I gave a theory on why the specific emmisary was picked. I believe, and Felice kinda agreed, he was GIVEN the decision, and went to inform them. He couldnt speak Italian. Who in NY would be able to make a ruling and give it to him, to give to them? Speculation, of course.....


If you are a 3rd generation guy in NY, you dont go around like, " I'm Siculianese". Lol, you say " I'm from Woodhaven, Howard Beach, whatever. An american wiseguy also wouldnt identify as a Manhattanite, hes gonna say I'm 116th street crew. But a Sicilian mafiosi in NY might identify with the territory he was from originally.....Torreta, Uditore...

[B.]

Inzerillo is capomandamento of Passo di Rigano but I was responding to you saying "Inzerillos of NY" control the mandamento. He said the Inzerillos "supported" DiMaggio as boss, not that they "installed" him. Just want to keep the language as clear as possible because the slightest change has a completely different meaning.

As for Grillo, he was with the D'Amico crew, which John Gambino's decina was assigned to when Gambino was demoted and they all intermingled. DiLeonardo said the D'Amico crew members were tasked with schooling the young Torrettesi in Brooklyn (at least two of which are now made members of the Gambino family who travel to Sicily). Grillo was identified as a soldier reporting to Cali in the mid-2000s investigation and sure he's an American but he is no stranger to the Sicilian faction in NYC and might have already met some of the guys who now live in Sicily. It's clear the former D'Amico crew is still lined up with the Sicilian Gambino faction given Paradiso was put on the admin and Grillo is a captain who represented the admin in Sicily. The language barrier is a weird part of this, like the f'n cocaine, but other than that Grillo makes sense.

Would be good to know exactly what message Grillo carried. Did the Gambino family actually intervene in the Torretta family's internal politics, or did they simply guarantee that Davi would not cause more problems with Zito? It sounds like Zito did become the consigliere despite Davi's protests, so the Gambino leaders likely worked something out with Davi or told him to stand down. We don't know if Grillo gave any advice or directive to the Torretta boss, maybe just informed him that the Gambino Sicilian faction would make sure there were no problems from Davi's faction.

[B.]

If you are a 3rd generation guy in NY, you dont go around like, " I'm Siculianese". Lol, you say " I'm from Woodhaven, Howard Beach, whatever. An american wiseguy also wouldnt identify as a Manhattanite, hes gonna say I'm 116th street crew. But a Sicilian mafiosi in NY might identify with the territory he was from originally.....Torreta, Uditore...

There's no one size fits all for this.

- Sure there are some American-born guys of Sicilian heritage in NYC and it means very little to them. Gravano's family comes from a Sicilian town closely connected to the early Gambino family but someone on here spoke to him on the phone and Gravano knew the name of the town but it meant absolutely nothing to him in a mafia context and he was clueless about the Gambino family's history with Agrigento even though Gravano's captain was also from there. Sammy couldn't have cared less that he was Agrigentino -- he was a gangster from Bensonhurst and that's all that mattered.

- Then you have Pete Inzerillo who has lived most of his life in NYC. I guarantee you he considers himself a Passo di Rigano paesan and that would be true whether he was in the mafia or not. He's still part of a Passo di Rigano community and has relatives in Sicily, so it makes sense he identifies with them. It means something extra given that he is a mafioso whose family have been the bosses there.

- You also have guys who are sort of halfway in between, like Michael DiLeonardo who knows his family history from Bisacquino and early ties to paesan Cascio Ferro. When DiLeonardo became an associate in the 1970s, he was taken by his capodecina to meet consigliere Joe N. Gallo because Gallo's family came from the same hometown as DiLeonardo's family. However, DiLeonardo didn't have active ties to Bisacquino's mafia (which might not even exist in recent decades) and he wouldn't have called himself part of a Bisacquinesi faction, but he knew and cared about his own background and no doubt that helped his relationship with the Sicilian faction.

I don't mean this to sound like an argument, because I actually don't understand the point you're making about the word "Torrettesi". It is like saying "I'm from Bensonhurst" but coming from someone whose family goes back hundreds of years in Bensonhurst and is related to half the people there. You can't really compare a Sicilian comune to an NYC neighborhood in terms of identity.

Maybe a better example in an NYC mafia context is what Pennisi says about the "Brooklyn crew" in the Luccheses. They all live and operate on Staten Island but because they come from Brooklyn originally that's how they identify and they have relationships with Brooklyn crews from other families. It doesn't mean they're from the "Brooklyn borgata" (which doesn't exist), just like the Torrettesi in NYC aren't necessarily part of the Torretta borgata but they still identify with their roots.

Look at what Felice said about Lorenzo Mannino (il Colosseo). Mannino hasn't been ID'd as a mafioso that I know of, but he was aware of the situation with Davi and Zito because he's a paesan and it matters in his social group.

[CabriniGreen]

If you are a 3rd generation guy in NY, you dont go around like, " I'm Siculianese". Lol, you say " I'm from Woodhaven, Howard Beach, whatever. An american wiseguy also wouldnt identify as a Manhattanite, hes gonna say I'm 116th street crew. But a Sicilian mafiosi in NY might identify with the territory he was from originally.....Torreta, Uditore...

I don't mean this to sound like an argument, because I actually don't understand the point you're making about the word "Torrettesi". It is like saying "I'm from Bensonhurst" but coming from someone whose family goes back hundreds of years in Bensonhurst and is related to half the people there. You can't really compare a Sicilian comune to an NYC neighborhood in terms of identity.

Maybe a better example in an NYC mafia context is what Pennisi says about the "Brooklyn crew" in the Luccheses. They all live and operate on Staten Island but because they come from Brooklyn originally that's how they identify and they have relationships with Brooklyn crews from other families. It doesn't mean they're from the "Brooklyn borgata" (which doesn't exist), just like the Torrettesi in NYC aren't necessarily part of the Torretta borgata but they still identify with their roots.

The bolded part. Basically I think they are identifying with Toretta organizationally, as opposed to just ancestry. Whereas you believe they arnt neccesarily part of the Torretta family, but may just BE from Torretta, and naturally coalesced into a faction in NY. The thing is, the New Connection indictment kinda proved that the Inzerillos operate basically as a family based in NY and Sicily, Torretta looks the same. All you need is Uditore people in NY, and I would say the whole madamento is there.....


When you say the Brooklyn borgata doesnt exist, I agree. But the Torretta borgata does. The difference being the geographic change from Brooklyn to Staten Island didnt necessitate an organizational change. They didnt go from the Brooklyn family to the Staten Island family. I guess I'm thinking something similar here. That the geographic change from Torretta to NY, didnt erase their allegiance to Torretta.

We dont know what exactly the issue was, but its telling that there wasnt a sitdown in NY to handle this. That it was taken to Sicily.