Rats holding back on murders?

[Hired_Goonz]

Frank Salemme is doing life now because he was prosecuted for a murder that he didn't fess up to when he worked out his cooperation agreement. What's really interesting is that Bobby Deluca (who disposed of the body) also kept this particular murder under his hat when he ended up flipping. I'm wondering how common this is, that a rat doesn't give up all the murders that they were involved with. I understand why a guy wouldn't want to cop to a murder if he thinks he has a reasonable chance of getting away with it but it's a very dangerous game to play. I tend to agree with Natale's assessment that was caught on tape that "seldom does an informant lie", at least in this context.

Offhand I don't know of anyone who was prosecuted for a murder they held back on like Salemme. But have any other rats been credibly accused of something like this?

Gravano was accused of ordering the Al Sharpton stabbing as well as the murder of a police officer in the 80s. But Casso and Kuklinski aren't exactly the most credible sources.

Massino's lawyer accused Frank Coppa of murdering an accountant/drag queen who performed under the name Cher lol but I don't know how much stock I put into that.

I saw in an older thread here that law enforcement had some info that Victor DeLuca may have been the shooter in the Bruno hit. He ended up testifying against Riccobene for the Monte murder. I believe that was a state case and not the whole RICO treatment so maybe his debriefing when he agreed to cooperate wasn't as intense as he would have gotten from federal prosecutors? Of course maybe he had nothing to do with it at all.

Any examples you guys can think of?

[chin_gigante]

Phil Casale held back on four and completely fucked himself over

[Hired_Goonz]

Phil Casale held back on four and completely fucked himself over

Is that the pedo from the Philly Newark crew? I thought he confessed to 4 murders committed with Caprio. Did he actually kill more than that? When you say he fucked himself over, did he not get a break on sentencing a la Gaspipe? Or was he charged after the fact like Salemme? All I know about him is whatever was in the Previte book and all I remember is that he raped a little girl, killed a bunch of guys and ate a bunch of potato chips.

[chin_gigante]

Phil Casale held back on four and completely fucked himself over

Is that the pedo from the Philly Newark crew? I thought he confessed to 4 murders committed with Caprio. Did he actually kill more than that? When you say he fucked himself over, did he not get a break on sentencing a la Gaspipe? Or was he charged after the fact like Salemme? All I know about him is whatever was in the Previte book and all I remember is that he raped a little girl, killed a bunch of guys and ate a bunch of potato chips.

The FBI confronted him originally and he admitted to the murders of William Gantz and Joseph Sodano. Then he wore a wire and got Caprio indicted. Caprio then flipped and admitted the Gantz and Sodano murders, but also told the FBI that he knew about three other murders committed by Casale (Scoloveno, Shear, Matonis). When confronted with this new information, Casale confessed but tried to claim he did all three killings with Caprio's authorisation. Caprio, however, denied doing so. When interviewed for witness protection, Casale then admitted his involvement in a sixth murder, Harry Serio, and said he and others plotted it in exchange for money from the Bonanno family.

Caprio, on the other hand, appears to have been up front from the start. He admitted the Gantz and Sodano murders, and also gave up the location of the body of Edward Snee, who was killed in 1975. While on the stand, he was questioned about the differences between his statements and Casale's (regarding the Scoloveno, Shear, and Matonis murders). Caprio remained firm that Casale was lying when he said those murders were authorised. Then he pointed out how he had given up the Snee murder immediately and said he would have admitted 20 murders if that's how many he committed.

Casale's deal was torn up and he was given the maximum 20 years for his original plea that covered the Gantz and Sodano murders. He eventually worked out another plea deal for the Serio, Scoloveno, Shear, and Matonis murders and was given an additional 10 years on top of that.

By contrast, Caprio pleaded guilty to the Snee, Gantz and Sodano murders and got a total of 75 months. So Caprio got out in about 2005, while Casale I believe is still in prison.

[Hired_Goonz]

Phil Casale held back on four and completely fucked himself over

Is that the pedo from the Philly Newark crew? I thought he confessed to 4 murders committed with Caprio. Did he actually kill more than that? When you say he fucked himself over, did he not get a break on sentencing a la Gaspipe? Or was he charged after the fact like Salemme? All I know about him is whatever was in the Previte book and all I remember is that he raped a little girl, killed a bunch of guys and ate a bunch of potato chips.

The FBI confronted him originally and he admitted to the murders of William Gantz and Joseph Sodano. Then he wore a wire and got Caprio indicted. Caprio then flipped and admitted the Gantz and Sodano murders, but also told the FBI that he knew about three other murders committed by Casale (Scoloveno, Shear, Matonis). When confronted with this new information, Casale confessed but tried to claim he did all three killings with Caprio's authorisation. Caprio, however, denied doing so. When interviewed for witness protection, Casale then admitted his involvement in a sixth murder, Harry Serio, and said he and others plotted it in exchange for money from the Bonanno family.

Caprio, on the other hand, appears to have been up front from the start. He admitted the Gantz and Sodano murders, and also gave up the location of the body of Edward Snee, who was killed in 1975. While on the stand, he was questioned about the differences between his statements and Casale's (regarding the Scoloveno, Shear, and Matonis murders). Caprio remained firm that Casale was lying when he said those murders were authorised. Then he pointed out how he had given up the Snee murder immediately and said he would have admitted 20 murders if that's how many he committed.

Casale's deal was torn up and he was given the maximum 20 years for his original plea that covered the Gantz and Sodano murders. He eventually worked out another plea deal for the Serio, Scoloveno, Shear, and Matonis murders and was given an additional 10 years on top of that.

By contrast, Caprio pleaded guilty to the Snee, Gantz and Sodano murders and got a total of 75 months. So Caprio got out in about 2005, while Casale I believe is still in prison.

Wow! Anastasia only dedicated a couple paragraphs to Casale in that book so I had no idea about all this drama. What a fuckin idiot - was he just so sure that Caprio was a "stand up guy" or what? Hopefully that extra 10 was given to him consecutively rather than concurrently, because if so he should still have roughly 3 years left to do. And I think the POS was about 50 when this all went down so he should be in his 70s now. I doubt he would be on the BOP locator as he is almost certainly under an assumed name. I wish they gave him life though.

This Serio murder sounds puzzling to me, why the hell would the Bonannos be using associates from another family in some kind of "murder for hire" type deal, that's not usually the way mob hits go down. But one thing that I've always wondered since I read Anastasia's book is: did the Newark crew know that Casale was a pedo? If so, that's shameful. Nobody - no matter what side of the law you're on - should ever knowingly tolerate the presence of a child rapist in their midst.

[chin_gigante]

Yeah, the extra 10 was to run consecutive to the 20 (but the extra 10 was a series of concurrent 10 year sentences for each additional murder). After looking into it more in depth, the way Anastasia portrays it in The Last Gangster is very oversimplified and potentially misleading, which is confusing because he covered it all at the time.

I don't know whether the rest of the Newark crew knew about the sexual assault. It was reported on at the time in the papers and he got out in 1985. Caprio was a friend of Casale's father so I'm assuming he must have known through the grapevine. It was also widely written about again when he flipped, so I assume everyone must have known about it. It was a really savage attack as well, and it messed up the victim's whole life (she was partially paralysed and ended up drug and alcohol dependent and in a series of abusive relationships). Then Natale had the gall to call Casale a "great guy" in his book

[richard_belding]

Gravano testified that when he was initially debriefed by federal agents in 1991 regarding the Francesco Oliveri murder, he had forgotten Orazio Stantini's involvement and made no mention of him. There's no mention of him in the initial FBI file on this killing.

At some point in 1992, he received a call from FBI Agent who was investigating the murder, who asked if Stantini had been involved. Gravano immediately remembered that Stantini had taken part in both the planning and the execution of the murder. Thereafter Gravano called U.S. attorney John Gleeson and informed him that Stantini was involved

[davidf1989]

How about John Bologna from the Genovese family in Springfield? As he was repeatedly caught in lies in matters such as the Bruno hit.

https://www.masslive.com/news/2013/05/n ... t_joh.html

I thought that Salemme first blamed Bianco for the murder and was prosecuted for perjury and then blamed Flemmi. This probably made him look very guilty.

https://gangsterreport.com/cadillac-fra ... nd-flemmi/

[mike68]

Salemme ordered a bunch of hits in the 90s after Vinny Ferrara went away. He is believed to have been there for some of them. But he never confessed when he was testifying against Bulger and Flemmi. There are a lot that he didn't own up to or incriminate people that he could have.

[davidf1989]

Salemme ordered a bunch of hits in the 90s after Vinny Ferrara went away. He is believed to have been there for some of them. But he never confessed when he was testifying against Bulger and Flemmi. There are a lot that he didn't own up to or incriminate people that he could have.

Wasn't Mark Rossetti one of the hitmen that was used by Salemme to carry out the hits during the 1990's?

https://gangsterreport.com/gr-sources-c ... s-role-in/

[Hired_Goonz]

Salemme ordered a bunch of hits in the 90s after Vinny Ferrara went away. He is believed to have been there for some of them. But he never confessed when he was testifying against Bulger and Flemmi. There are a lot that he didn't own up to or incriminate people that he could have.

What murders did Salemme cop to anyway? Just the ones he committed back in the gang wars of the 60s? If so, that's laughable. I find it insane how he and Martorano got such sweetheart deals.

[davidf1989]

I think that he only pleaded guilty to 4 murders from the early sixties which were the Bennett brothers and Richard Grasso according to this article.
https://www.capecodtimes.com/article/19 ... /312099965.

He probably committed more murders during this time and later and it is crazy that the federal government gave him and Martorano such sweetheart deals in exchange for testimony against John Connolly.

[cobra]

-tommaso buscetta
-suspected to kill his second wife vera girotti
-pippo calò ask him in maxi trial "what happen to your second wife"

[bronx]

divorce italian style

[The Cat]

Did Sammy just not say on his YouTube channel that he killed his grandmother … what the hell did FBI think when he worked out his agreement.