Gambino / Venezuela?

[CabriniGreen]

Just for clarification, are we saying the informant confused 2 sicilian, Gambino allied decina, with being ACTUAL Gambino decina in Venezuela?

Or are we saying there were 2 Gambino decina, as well as 2 Sicilian mafia families?

[CabriniGreen]

Just for clarification, are we saying the informant confused 2 sicilian, Gambino allied decina, with being ACTUAL Gambino decina in Venezuela?

Or are we saying there were 2 Gambino decina, as well as 2 Sicilian mafia families?

Buscetta, I guess we can use his name, lol

[CabriniGreen]

yeah exactly, the informant is not wrong, Carlo Gambino was the one who had to allow these two families to be officially recognized, until then they were answering to both ny and sicily. one was based in caracas, the other one was based in valencia.

This. How does this work in practice, is what, I guess, I struggle to understand.

[felice]

They were sending narcotics to US, if Gambino in name of NY commission would have said the Caruana-Cuntrera had to stop, they had to stop

[B.]

He's saying they were part of the Sicilian mafia but operating under the authority of the Gambino family. Think of Sicilian members in NYC/NJ like Giuseppe Ganci and Rosario Gambino, they were formally part of Sicilian families but operating under the authority of the Bonannos and Gambinos. It would be a similar arrangement in Venezuela.

[CabriniGreen]

He's saying they were part of the Sicilian mafia but operating under the authority of the Gambino family. Think of Sicilian members in NYC/NJ like Giuseppe Ganci and Rosario Gambino, they were formally part of Sicilian families but operating under the authority of the Bonannos and Gambinos. It would be a similar arrangement in Venezuela.

This is at the crux of what I'm asking. (It's why I asked before about Double Affiliation, the answer was they are transfers.) I can understand transfers, kinda. But the other scenario seems to be a blueprint for conflicts.....

What happens in real time if an order from NY conflicts with a STANDING DIRECTIVE from the Sicilians? And vice versa? What's the standing protocol for a resolution?

Did say, Rosario Gambino answer to a Gambino capo day to day? Or does he answer direct to the admin, like John did most likely? Was he allowed to be autonomous? Does he get to represent himself at sitdowns? If not, who speaks for him? Was there an official Sicilian liaison who did this? Like Cali did, modern day? Do they have to reach out to his boss in Sicily before they do anything? Or could they kill him because hes in their territory? I mean, are they really gonna like, send letters and messengers back and forth for months every time there a beef? THATS a big part of what I dont get, Look at the Violi -Rizzuto situation. It doesnt seem practical, really.... Maybe I'm just overthinking it......

B. You remember your post about a Sicilian mafia boss, speaking with Castellano? Geraci, I think was his surname.....

Castellano was complaining that Sicilians were coming over, doing whatever they wanted, that they had to be with a family. I think it was 72. Now, Don Paolo was handling the smuggling of Sicilian immigrants through Canada, John Gambino was in Venezuela, setting up companies, like the family was clearly making moves. Does he NOT KNOW, at this point? It's so fuckin strange to me. Are they acting on a Gambino directive, or a Sicilian one? Keep in mind, they started coming over in the mid 60s. They were running from Sicily. Capeci did the piece on Riccardo Cefalu, and he DEFINITLY was taking SOME direction from Sicily. I doubt if he was the only one.....

It makes me wonder if Castellano was all the way plugged into the Sicilian operations, maybe that was Paolos area.



We have to keep in mind, the Sicilians needed the drugs to solve their liquidity crises, and to make the big money, they needed the American market. They were coming over reguardless, at least, that's how it seems to me.

I see the Caruana- Cunteras operating their own family. To me, they expected to enjoy the same fluidity of movement that all mafiosi have enjoyed throughout history. Mafiosi in NY can move about the 5 boroughs. Imagine a borgata tried to claim ALL of Brooklyn. Lol, laughable. Yet we accept that they have the capability to claim like, all of Venezuela, or Canada? It's a little nuts, lol... but it is mafia logic...

[cobra]

ok I just found the document, all the info are coming from buscetta:
the venezuelan families were formed on input of giuseppe caruana which contacted both the sicilian mafia provincial commission plus carlo gambino to get the authorization of ny commission. everything happened in the mid 70s

-is venezuela mention in any new case in last 10 years?
-i couldn't see anything since salvatore miceli
-still some "interesting" people living in valencia
-one running legit export business

[JeremyTheJew]

The author of the book OCTOPUS wrote a second book.... I forgot the title... I wanna say thieves world??

Anyways, the book went into detail about the sicilians and the cuntrera family owning Aruba. Like the whole island.....

The book gets a little confusing because it talks about the PAX MAFIOSO which I don't think ever happened. (Another Russian invasion theories).

Talked about heads of every mafia group (including yakuza) meeting together to make a global drug route.

[CabriniGreen]

They were sending narcotics to US, if Gambino in name of NY commission would have said the Caruana-Cuntrera had to stop, they had to stop

The Valencia cosca..... did they pop up in the investigations into Sicilian narcotics trafficking? Any famous or notable names? Anyone familiar? Any relations to known mafiosi in NY?


If they trafficked into the US, was it into NY? Or another American city? Did they work WITH the Caruana Cuntreras, or was it a separate, but parallel operation?

Any direct connections to any of the NY guys? Like familial ties?

[CabriniGreen]

ok I just found the document, all the info are coming from buscetta:
the venezuelan families were formed on input of giuseppe caruana which contacted both the sicilian mafia provincial commission plus carlo gambino to get the authorization of ny commission. everything happened in the mid 70s

-is venezuela mention in any new case in last 10 years?
-i couldn't see anything since salvatore miceli
-still some "interesting" people living in valencia
-one running legit export business

I dont think they have been based there for some time, Cali had contacts there, it's how he helped Nicchi and Mandala supply Sicily with coke. I've had the feeling for some time the Caruana- Cuntreras contacts were ruined by huge shipments, paid for by Ndrangheta clans, that were siezed. They either lost the trust of the Colombians, or, just speculation here, but maybe they had to cede the contacts, and or routes as compensation, not sure.

[stubbs]

Mobfax on youtube posted this clip of Buscetta testifying that Venezuela was an independent family. I vaguely remember there’s been some other research here on the board that confirmed this.

[B.]

Two of them in fact. The Siciliana and Santa Ninfa Families each had a decina in Venezuela that were later recognized as Families. Those are no doubt what was being referred to when the Paterno associate visited, he just didn't know the finer details.

[motorfab]

The whole testimony is available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VokIHY0 ... nel=MOBFAX