New Orleans and Tampa..

[bluehouse]

Regarding Chicago, there are 14 guys who can be positively identified as being made. A few others who are possible. And several of them will be dead within another decade. Once the membership that makes of the core of any LCN family is gone, or down to so low numbers as to render them unable to function in any practical sense, it becomes a moot point; regardless of who still recognizes whoever is left.

I get what your saying but they could easily make at least 30 new guys tomorrow guys in their 30s,40s and 50s.Im sure in all of Chicago underworld theres at least 30 Italian guys who would be deserving of their button.Unless the plan is for chicago to die out and the younger italian guys dont want to be in lcn and just prefer to run their rackets independently which will be less of a target for the fbi

[bluehouse]

Ok heres a LA question as of right now the Mexicans are the most powerful.Does anyone know what year or decade that happened?And does anyone who is the most powerful guy is in LA.Would it be the leader of the biggest gang 18th street because of the numbers or would it be some mexican mafia member

[Rat]

Ok heres a LA question as of right now the Mexicans are the most powerful.Does anyone know what year or decade that happened?And does anyone who is the most powerful guy is in LA.Would it be the leader of the biggest gang 18th street because of the numbers or would it be some mexican mafia member

18th street gang pays tribute to the Mexican Mafia and the Mexican Mafia has the ability to give orders to most 18th street gang sets in California

[Wiseguy]

Regarding Chicago, there are 14 guys who can be positively identified as being made. A few others who are possible. And several of them will be dead within another decade. Once the membership that makes of the core of any LCN family is gone, or down to so low numbers as to render them unable to function in any practical sense, it becomes a moot point; regardless of who still recognizes whoever is left.

I get what your saying but they could easily make at least 30 new guys tomorrow guys in their 30s,40s and 50s.Im sure in all of Chicago underworld theres at least 30 Italian guys who would be deserving of their button.Unless the plan is for chicago to die out and the younger italian guys dont want to be in lcn and just prefer to run their rackets independently which will be less of a target for the fbi

No point in engaging in hypotheticals that won't happen.

They've gone from 51 members in 1987, to 28 members in 2007, to around 14 members today. That shows they're not making anyone, at least not in any significant numbers. It's not a "plan" so much as attrition simply taking its toll.

Besides the low number of members, you can see the writing on the wall with the rackets. For example, the occasional gambling busts typically involve at most associates, or more often people with some past ties, though the present day connection to the Outfit isn't all that clear.

Most of the familiar names we see involved with the unions are simply descendants of long dead Outfit figures. While they obviously obtained those positions through mob connections, with only a few exceptions you can see how they've otherwise joined legitimate society and really aren't running things under the direction of organized crime.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Boss of a family of 45-55 members, that's not nothing. You are right when you say that Dragna lacked ambition when it comes to Las Vegas, but saying that he was a "bush league", that makes no sense. No comment on thinking about his supposed career peak when he was in NY, I'm sure yourself don't believe what you wrote.

BTW, you know the Mickey Mouse Mafia thing came after Fratianno flipped, right?

As for Cohen and Milano, it is very likely that it was the Milanos who sent Cohen to California, so nothing exceptional about him respecting them ...

Boss of a family with 55 members who no one took seriously. Could be 100 members, what difference would it make? Everyone knew Chicago, Bugsy and later Cohen were the real muscle in town.

Got evidence?

Yes. Mountains of it. All timed and dated.

Dude don't think I don't notice you holding certain people to your "evidence" standard but not other. You pass a lot of conjecture as fact too. Indeed I will point it out next time you do it.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Jack Dragna was significant enough to get Willie Moretti murdered. He didn't issue the order, but he took the accusation up the chain to his avugad Lucchese and it was investigated by the Commission. The Commission sided with Dragna and Moretti was killed.

I have literally seen it all now from the Dragna stans.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... moretti%22

What is this?

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Ok heres a LA question as of right now the Mexicans are the most powerful.Does anyone know what year or decade that happened?And does anyone who is the most powerful guy is in LA.Would it be the leader of the biggest gang 18th street because of the numbers or would it be some mexican mafia member

1950s, in prison. Protection racket. Taking a piece of drug operations from relatives of people locked up in exchange for protection.

Eme is supposedly a 1 member, 1 vote organization. Nobody is in charge. Sort of how the mafia commission was supposed to be, even though certain people were more powerful than others. I suspect the same is true with la Eme. Some members more influential than others. But at least as a policy, all members are equal. Each member is essentially a boss of their neighborhood, though. Some of these neighborhoods are huge, with a lot of members and subsets. This presence in the neighborhood resembles that of the Italian mob back east but other than drug dealers, nobody really walks around LA fearing Eme extortion. There was racial drama between them and black gangs a decade ago but that's died down.

18th street has historically had an on and off relationship with Eme. They'd been "in the hat", (marked for death) many times. Not sure their status now. They're a huge gang, with offshoots all over the globe, especially in Central America.

[Antiliar]

Boss of a family of 45-55 members, that's not nothing. You are right when you say that Dragna lacked ambition when it comes to Las Vegas, but saying that he was a "bush league", that makes no sense. No comment on thinking about his supposed career peak when he was in NY, I'm sure yourself don't believe what you wrote.

BTW, you know the Mickey Mouse Mafia thing came after Fratianno flipped, right?

As for Cohen and Milano, it is very likely that it was the Milanos who sent Cohen to California, so nothing exceptional about him respecting them ...

Boss of a family with 55 members who no one took seriously. Could be 100 members, what difference would it make? Everyone knew Chicago, Bugsy and later Cohen were the real muscle in town.

Got evidence?

Yes. Mountains of it. All timed and dated.

Dude don't think I don't notice you holding certain people to your "evidence" standard but not other. You pass a lot of conjecture as fact too. Indeed I will point it out next time you do it.

Go ahead and point it now. Something tells me that it'll be out of context, misquoted and misrepresented, but I still want you to point it out. Looking forward to it.

[JoeCamel]

Honestly my favorite part about this forum is someone new starting a active family debate every few weeks and watching the directions it takes

[JoeCamel]

I gotta err on the side of Scott myself. That’s what all you guys don’t understand. You never know until you do

[johnny_scootch]

Jack Dragna was significant enough to get Willie Moretti murdered. He didn't issue the order, but he took the accusation up the chain to his avugad Lucchese and it was investigated by the Commission. The Commission sided with Dragna and Moretti was killed.

I have literally seen it all now from the Dragna stans.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... moretti%22

What is this?

Hahahaha did the FBI file backing up B's statement for which you called him a 'dragna stan' confuse you??

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Hahahaha did the FBI file backing up B's statement for which you called him a 'dragna stan' confuse you??

There's no such quotes that back up his claim. If he's using this document as evidence it's pure conjecture. Basically just says Dragna was present at a meeting. Doesn't establish him as influential in Moretti's killing in any way. Probably why he just left the link and not an actual quote from it.

[johnny_scootch]

Hahahaha did the FBI file backing up B's statement for which you called him a 'dragna stan' confuse you??

There's no such quotes that back up his claim. If he's using this document as evidence it's pure conjecture. Basically just says Dragna was present at a meeting. Doesn't establish him as influential in Moretti's killing in any way. Probably why he just left the link and not an actual quote from it.

What is this?

[desertdog]

The evidence of Buffalo's viability is pretty clear cut IMO from recent LE activity/cases being brought in Western NY. The feds have a full-court press on Todaro right now.

SMB

No, the local media in Buffalo has a "full-court press" on Todaro. For as long as it lasts anyway. You read actual statements from the feds, it more or less amounts to a yawn. The distinction, which they've made more than once, between an LCN family and loosely connected individuals committing Mafia-style crimes seems to be a concept continually lost on some people here.

I doubt anyone here, if they're being honest, expects to see Todaro in handcuffs doing the perp-walk any more than I do.

What evidence do you have that The Buffalo News is targeting Todaro?

Do you think their reporters haven’t done their research and do not have reliable sources for what they’ve printed?


Do you think these reporters’ sources are wrong, because what they’ve said does not match your theory and narrative on OC regarding lack of reporting and cases?

While your argument from silence may shed light on whether a crime family is dead or dying, IMHO, it cannot be conclusive. Again, IMHO, the recent lack of silence on the Buffalo crime family in regard to recent cases and stories calls into question the universal viability of the narrative or theory you’ve built regarding lack of cases, reporting, etc.

However, on the other side of the coin, I will recognize sources can be wrong, so the stories The Buffalo News has written could be wrong. But when you balance the idea that sources can and will be wrong along with the number of different sources (some identified and some not) saying mostly the same thing, evidence suggests the family is active and the argument from silence should be dismissed in the case of the Buffalo crime family.

Reportedly, the FBI put a bug into a peperoni sausage and placed it in Todaro's kitchen...The old Man was heard discussing a scheme to use fake cheese on the pizza's. (just kidding)