New Orleans and Tampa..

[desertdog]

Do New Orleans and Tampa still have an active LCN presence? Do they answer to NYC?
How about San Diego and L.A.?

[eboli]

The borgatas you've listed are long gone. The only 'viable', families, meaning hierarchical structure still present, are the Five Families, Philadelphia, Patriarca, DeCavalcante, with the Chicago Outfit on death's door, and most likely Buffalo. That is according to the most recent official information we have access to.

There are organized crime elements from various defunct crime families in different cities, but the ones that are left seem to run mostly independent operations.

[Antiliar]

Detroit is also a viable Family. Aside from what's considered viable, according to the rules of the Cosa Nostra a Family continues to be recognized until the last member dies or transfers to another Family. So the Birmingham Family dissolved in the 1930s when its members either died and the rest transferred. Los Angeles, although not viable, is still on record since its underboss is still alive and lives in its territory (Southern California). Technically, if the Commission allowed it, he could induct members and the Family would become viable again. The same would apply to any surviving New Orleans and Tampa members. Currently, since neither city has an operating hierarchy their territory could be considered open or could be claimed by another Family. (When Pete Milano was boss of L.A., he was so weak that other Families basically ignored him and moved in anyways, so even having a hierarchy isn't enough to maintain control.)

[JeremyTheJew]

Tampa/Trafficantes history is a good read and very interesting. The most Sicilian clan and most involved in narcotics openly I think....

Santo snr had a war with the Cuban outfit and then later jnr really won the war if I remember correctly.

Scott Deitche books are great. I read both of them actually.....

Last Trafficante boss I believe was LoScalzo and he's retired.

As far as new Orleans.... I don't think anything at all is going on there

[B.]

Detroit is also a viable Family. Aside from what's considered viable, according to the rules of the Cosa Nostra a Family continues to be recognized until the last member dies or transfers to another Family. So the Birmingham Family dissolved in the 1930s when its members either died and the rest transferred. Los Angeles, although not viable, is still on record since its underboss is still alive and lives in its territory (Southern California). Technically, if the Commission allowed it, he could induct members and the Family would become viable again. The same would apply to any surviving New Orleans and Tampa members. Currently, since neither city has an operating hierarchy their territory could be considered open or could be claimed by another Family. (When Pete Milano was boss of L.A., he was so weak that other Families basically ignored him and moved in anyways, so even having a hierarchy isn't enough to maintain control.)

Great post. This is where the term rappresentante / representative is especially relevant. The leaders shouldn't be thought of as "crime bosses" of an organized crime syndicate, but representatives in the Cosa Nostra network. A representative can very well be a "crime boss", but his recognition as rappresentante doesn't depend on it, nor does the size of his family.

[Wiseguy]

Do New Orleans and Tampa still have an active LCN presence? Do they answer to NYC?
How about San Diego and L.A.?

New York (5)
New Jersey (weak)
Boston (weak)
Philadelphia (weak)
Chicago (nearly gone)

Nobody else. Anything and eveything else is wishful thinking based on misunderstood information or non-applicable Cosa Nostra hypothetical theory mumbo jumbo.

[Antiliar]

New York (5)
New Jersey (weak)
Boston (weak)
Philadelphia (weak)
Chicago (nearly gone)

Nobody else. Anything and eveything else is wishful thinking based on misunderstood information or non-applicable Cosa Nostra hypothetical theory mumbo jumbo.

Speak for yourself, and your series of fallacies aren't facts. "Anything and eveything else is wishful thinking based on misunderstood information..." <- This is a hasty generalization fallacy and it assumes omniscience. "...non-applicable Cosa Nostra hypothetical theory mumbo jumbo" <- This information came directly from a made member of the Cosa Nostra with personal experience, so it's neither hypothetical nor "mumbo jumbo." If you're going to dismiss facts and evidence because they don't agree with your preconceived narrative, then it is you who is displaying wishful thinking and mumbo jumbo.

Besides that, there is also evidence that Buffalo and Detroit may have fully functioning viable Families. (This does not mean that I can verify for a fact that those two cities have viable Families, only that there's evidence pointing in that direction; I am personally convinced that there is one in Detroit and believe that there *may* be one in Buffalo.) Concerning Chicago, it may be nearly gone or may not be quite that far. We have a lack of evidence of current Outfit activities, and when we do find out information it's often close to a decade after the fact. As stated before, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[scott22]

Chicago, Detroit & Buffalo are quite functional, while far from their glory days. I wouldn't call Philly weak by any stretch of the imagination. KC has a small family operating at a very low level.

We've been down this road before. It is what it is. We'll have to agree to disagree.

The evidence of Buffalo's viability is pretty clear cut IMO from recent LE activity/cases being brought in Western NY. The feds have a full-court press on Todaro right now.

SMB

[Antiliar]

Chicago, Detroit & Buffalo are quite functional, while far from their glory days. I wouldn't call Philly weak by any stretch of the imagination. KC has a small family operating at a very low level.

We've been down this road before. It is what it is. We'll have to agree to disagree.

The evidence of Buffalo's viability is pretty clear cut IMO from recent LE activity/cases being brought in Western NY. The feds have a full-court press on Todaro right now.

SMB

Thanks. You have contacts with members of law enforcement and crime families that the rest of us don't, not to mention being related to the head of the Purple Gang, an attorney, writer for the Detroit Free Press, published author of several books and operator of a widely-used organized crime site. Even if people don't agree with you, they should take what you have say seriously.

[Patrickgold]

The the fact that court documents showed that three major bookmaking operations busted last year were found to be Outfit operations despite people saying differently last year should tell you that the Outfit is far from “nearly gone”.

[sdeitche]

Santo snr had a war with the Cuban outfit and then later jnr really won the war if I remember correctly.

Scott Deitche books are great. I read both of them actually.....

First off, thank you. Glad you like my tomes.

It wasn't a war with Cubans per se. Santo Sr was battling with Charlie Wall and some independent Cuban operators for control of the rackets in Tampa, but the Trafficantes had Cubans and Spaniards on their side as well. WHen Santo Jr took over, after squashing an internal factional dispute, he brought in the independent Cuban and Spanish bolita operators under his wing in Tampa. Junior also had a Cuban crew working for him in Miami in the 1960s. That crew were Cuban exiles who came over after Castro took charge.

[sdeitche]

Chicago, Detroit & Buffalo are quite functional, while far from their glory days. I wouldn't call Philly weak by any stretch of the imagination. KC has a small family operating at a very low level.

We've been down this road before. It is what it is. We'll have to agree to disagree.

The evidence of Buffalo's viability is pretty clear cut IMO from recent LE activity/cases being brought in Western NY. The feds have a full-court press on Todaro right now.

SMB

Yeah, absolutely. Especially with BUffalo.

And I think we both know about the KC stuff

[Wiseguy]

Besides that, there is also evidence that Buffalo and Detroit may have fully functioning viable Families. (This does not mean that I can verify for a fact that those two cities have viable Families, only that there's evidence pointing in that direction; I am personally convinced that there is one in Detroit and believe that there *may* be one in Buffalo.) Concerning Chicago, it may be nearly gone or may not be quite that far. We have a lack of evidence of current Outfit activities, and when we do find out information it's often close to a decade after the fact. As stated before, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Regarding Detroit, I'm not sure what evidence you're referring to. Of the approximately 30 members cited by the feds during the 1996-2001 time frame, at least 23 of them have died and one has flipped. There's been no real evidence of any ongoing ceremonies. In all probability, the membership is down to single digits. And the lack of cases reflects that. The last one of any significance was 15 years ago. That's not a coincidence.

Regarding Chicago, there are 14 guys who can be positively identified as being made. A few others who are possible. And several of them will be dead within another decade. Once the membership that makes of the core of any LCN family is gone, or down to so low numbers as to render them unable to function in any practical sense, it becomes a moot point; regardless of who still recognizes whoever is left.

Lastly, when in comes to the mob - especially over the long term - absence of evidence has proven to be evidence of absence time and time again.

Chicago, Detroit & Buffalo are quite functional, while far from their glory days.

I wouldn't call Philly weak by any stretch of the imagination. KC has a small family operating at a very low level.

I addressed Chicago and Detroit above, Buffalo below.

Considering you still think Kansas City is operating, I'm sure Philadelphia seems like a juggernaut to you.

The evidence of Buffalo's viability is pretty clear cut IMO from recent LE activity/cases being brought in Western NY. The feds have a full-court press on Todaro right now.

SMB

No, the local media in Buffalo has a "full-court press" on Todaro. For as long as it lasts anyway. You read actual statements from the feds, it more or less amounts to a yawn. The distinction, which they've made more than once, between an LCN family and loosely connected individuals committing Mafia-style crimes seems to be a concept continually lost on some people here.

I doubt anyone here, if they're being honest, expects to see Todaro in handcuffs doing the perp-walk any more than I do.

[JeremyTheJew]

Locally speaking.... There's definitely a mafia here and you can actively hear about it if your in said circles.

I think that the organization isn't the SAME as before.... But there's no deny that there was a deffinetly resurgence in OC last 10/15 years

.... Whether it is actually the exact same as before.... Is up for debate.

But between terrorists....and then the world's politics.... And then corona.... It's a domino effect that is making OC back in there lanes.

My humble opinion.

[JeremyTheJew]

Here as In DETROIT