Are Bruno Family Boss's Recognized By New York?

[Irish Moe]

This is something ive wondered for a long time, Are The Bruno Borgata Boss's Recognized By All 5 Family's Today? I had a post on this a while back, And than later i see an article about a beef in the Family over this exact issue. My Understanding Of Cosa Nostra Customs And Traditions, Is That A Soldier Cannot Just Start Straightenin Guys Out, Well You Can, But They Wont Be Recognized As Amico Nostra By New York. An example is what Boston Bobby Did, He personally Straightened Out Guys That Are Not And Were Never Recognized As Bruno Family Buttons, Only The Guys That Joey And Georgie Personally Honoured With The Button Were Recognized By Philly, Guarente, Gentile, Vetere & Luisi. Amuso sent word that Joey's not to be Recognized As Representante, So i wonder if any of the other Family's Dont Recognize them as well. If Joey Was Never Recognized By New York As Boss, Than a legit argument can be made about everyone he Straightened Out isnt a legit button. Im curious to hear your guys thoughts on this

[Wiseguy]

Whatever dispute there was may have become moot when Nicky Scarfo died.

And even without all that, I think Luisi lives in his own fantasy world and I've never been convinced all the names he's dropped were ever made.

[chin_gigante]

FBI Agent William Inzerillo testified at Merlino's trial a few years ago that what they'd learned over the course of the investigation was that the Philadelphia family ultimately answered to the Genovese family. It's the same situation as the DeCavalcante family answering to the Gambinos. It's ultimately also the same situation Philadelphia had when Natale and Merlino took over the family in 1994. They had the blessing and recognition of the Genovese family but had to go to them for permission on any major decisions (though Merlino sometimes disregarded the Genoveses and did what he wanted - e.g., making guys from Boston without permission). We also know of multiple instances of Merlino (and others, including Borgesi, Grande and Lancellotti) in recent years interracting with influential Genovese captains like Patsy Parrello, Eugene Onofrio and Danny Pagano.

So the Genovese family recognises them. The Gambino family almost certainly does based off the 2010 meeting of John Gambino and Joe Ligambi. The Lucchese policy officially is not to recognise Merlino (because of Amuso's friendship with Scarfo) but you still see at least social interraction between members of both families. Particularly involving the Pernas. Philly members have also had at least social interractions in recent years with Bonannos and Colombos.

The Lucchese family is probably the only NY family that doesn't officially recognise Merlino. And as Wiseguy pointed out it may have changed once Scarfo died. Or if it hasn't there's a good chance it will once Amuso dies.

[B.]

Pennisi said he was instructed by his captain not to meet with Merlino because they didn't recognize him, but the captain went and hung out with Merlino on his own. On another night Pennisi ended up meeting him as well. The Pernas aren't afraid to be seen with him on social media.

Scarfo's death isn't necessarily a factor. Families have refused to recognize a boss even if there's no alternative they recognize instead... they will just outright not recognize anybody. But if the Lucchese admin are the only people who don't recognize him, and their members don't even follow this rule, it doesn't have much weight.

The Lucchese admin wasn't recognizing Mancuso as a boss, so for whatever reason they've been taking a hard line on recognizing other bosses.

FBI Agent William Inzerillo testified at Merlino's trial a few years ago that what they'd learned over the course of the investigation was that the Philadelphia family ultimately answered to the Genovese family. It's the same situation as the DeCavalcante family answering to the Gambinos.

The two families seem to have changed places. Historically the Gambinos represented Philly and the Genovese represented the DeCavalcantes on the Commission, but in the 1980s we first see them change places. I don't know that Philly officially went under the Genovese that early, as the Gambinos were supposedly involved in the Philly leadership changes in the late 1980s, but no question Manna and the Genovese were influencing things when Testa and Scarfo took over.

What's confusing is that Philly went to the Gambino family in 2010 to register their issues with the Lucchese family (and supposedly an unspecified issue with the DeCavalcantes). If Philly was represented by the Genovese family, why would the leadership of the Philly family meet with the Gambino leadership to register an issue they had with other NYC/NJ families?

Things could be more fluid today than they were in the heyday of the Commission and Philly can bounce between the Genovese and Gambinos depending on the situation, like the relationships change depending on who is involved (i.e. Ligambi was closer to the Gambino family or the specific Gambino leaders that attended that meeting, while Merlino is closer to the Genovese family or those specific Genovese leaders). Might be overthinking it, but mob politics are usually very deliberate in how they're handled.

What's interesting too is John Gambino told Stefanelli he couldn't help Ligambi out. We know the former Philly guys under Scarfo Jr. were returned by 2015, so someone in NYC seems to have helped them iron out part of the dispute. Philly didn't just swipe made Lucchese members and re-claim them... someone had to advocate for them and seemingly the Lucchese family had to agree.

[NJShore4Life]

I would still love to know how the Lucchese’s in Nicky Scarfo Jr’s crew (Persiano, Piccolo, Pelullo) got transferred back to Philly.

I will almost guarantee it had something to do with there being no more FirstPlus money being kicked up, it always has to do with money.

-Dante

[jimmi_beans8]

...and some wonder how joey doin so great,,,,heres a theory,,,,,,,,"jersey,,gimme these 3 mofos back///i split the $$$//and i take the RESPONSIBILITIES'

[B.]

Pennisi said he didn't have to kick up any money from his loanshark operation, only contribute to the Christmas tribute, similar to the Bonannos under Rastelli and Massino. Amuso was an unindicted coconspirator so I'm sure a score like FirstPlus was shared with the leadership, but doesn't seem the Luccheses operate on a strict envelope policy outside special occasions.

The issue over the former Philly associates was political... lifelong Philly associates were stolen and made by the Luccheses. Money might have been on their minds, but the dispute was Cosa Nostra: you took our people without permission and we want them back; also stop trying to recruit more of our members to your side. The Lucchese side of the dispute would argue the Merlino leadership wasn't recognized, therefore they didn't steal anyone, only recruited them with the blessing of the official boss Nicky Scarfo.

The Philly family appears to have had the stronger argument and someone advocted for them, while the Luccheses relented. It's not that money doesn't matter, but it would have been a bad move to bring money into a purely political conflict.

[Ozgoz]

Pennisi said he didn't have to kick up any money from his loanshark operation, only contribute to the Christmas tribute, similar to the Bonannos under Rastelli and Massino. Amuso was an unindicted coconspirator so I'm sure a score like FirstPlus was shared with the leadership, but doesn't seem the Luccheses operate on a strict envelope policy outside special occasions.

The issue over the former Philly associates was political... lifelong Philly associates were stolen and made by the Luccheses. Money might have been on their minds, but the dispute was Cosa Nostra: you took our people without permission and we want them back; also stop trying to recruit more of our members to your side. The Lucchese side of the dispute would argue the Merlino leadership wasn't recognized, therefore they didn't steal anyone, only recruited them with the blessing of the official boss Nicky Scarfo.

The Philly family appears to have had the stronger argument and someone advocted for them, while the Luccheses relented. It's not that money doesn't matter, but it would have been a bad move to bring money into a purely political conflict.

Are you sure Merlino didn’t ask you to come into the sitdown, bro?

[Wiseguy]

Pennisi said he didn't have to kick up any money from his loanshark operation, only contribute to the Christmas tribute, similar to the Bonannos under Rastelli and Massino. Amuso was an unindicted coconspirator so I'm sure a score like FirstPlus was shared with the leadership, but doesn't seem the Luccheses operate on a strict envelope policy outside special occasions.

I'm not familiar with the Rastelli or Massino example you're referring to but I have read other instances of loanshark profits being an exception to the otherwise regular money members are supposed to kick up. Not sure why. It would be a rather uncharacteristically benevolent administration that only expected tribute at Christmas. Tony Ducks taking only $10,000 to $50,000 a year, or Chin not taking money off most of his captains, seems to be more the exception than the rule.

[B.]

The Bonanno family leadership didn't expect underlings to kick up money except Christmas and I believe the boss's birthday. Massino, Vitale, and even Frank Bonomo's associate Bud Zuccaro made statements along these lines. They did create a "war chest" later but for a relatively small amount.

Would be good if someone could piece together the different things Pennisi has said on this. He talks about pressure to put together a Christmas package and for the family to pay for Amuso's house remodel but I can't remember anything else. I've heard that about loansharking before too, it being treated like a personal business, but would be good to know if Pennisi said this was only loansharking or other activities as well.