Early 1985 NYC membership estimates

[MSFRD]

All my readings almost consistently put the Bonnano’s as the third largest in NYC. It makes sense that they probably ballooned in numbers during the Castallammarese War, and were capped at their peak strength.

[TallGuy19]

Did the Colombos have a grand total of 114 members in 1964, or does that only include soldiers?

[B.]

Did the Colombos have a grand total of 114 members in 1964, or does that only include soldiers?

I believe it was the total membership including everyone.

Would be interesting if someone could identify how many known members died between 1957 and 1964, as that would give us an indication of how large they were when the books closed in 1957 (no doubt there were at least a few old unidentified members who died during that period, too, but it would still give us an idea).

[Pogo The Clown]

To get such a list started.


?-Cristoforo Rubino (1958) (Killed)
Frank "Frankie Shots” Abbattemarco (1958) (Killed)
Giuseppe/Joseph “Peppino” Buffa (1959)
Joseph Magnasco (1961) (Killed)
Joseph “Joe Jelly” Gioeli (1962) (Killed)
?-Marco Morelli (1962) (Killed)
Joe Profaci (1962)
Joe Magliocco (1963)
Larry Cirillo (1963) (killed by his girlfriend)
Joseph “Joe Bats” Cardello (1963) (Killed)


Pogo

[TallGuy19]

Did the Colombos have a grand total of 114 members in 1964, or does that only include soldiers?

I believe it was the total membership including everyone.

Would be interesting if someone could identify how many known members died between 1957 and 1964, as that would give us an indication of how large they were when the books closed in 1957 (no doubt there were at least a few old unidentified members who died during that period, too, but it would still give us an idea).

I was just asking because if Colombo had polled his captains to find out how many soldiers each of them had, that number might not include the captains or the administration.

[B.]

Thanks, Pogo. So it looks like they easily had ~130 members in 1957 when the books closed. It's generally believed the families were at their peak around 1957 given the mass inductions of the 1950s, but hard to say.

Even if the Profaci family was maxed out in both 1931 and 1957, they would have been larger in 1957 as they absorbed a large faction of the disbanded Newark faction circa 1937.

I'd be surprised if they had anywhere near 150 in 1957. However, their ~130 size could still point to them once having had a cap of 150, as they would have lost "slots" due to murdered members over the decades.

[Etna]

Thanks, Pogo. So it looks like they easily had ~130 members in 1957 when the books closed. It's generally believed the families were at their peak around 1957 given the mass inductions of the 1950s, but hard to say.

Even if the Profaci family was maxed out in both 1931 and 1957, they would have been larger in 1957 as they absorbed a large faction of the disbanded Newark faction circa 1937.

I'd be surprised if they had anywhere near 150 in 1957. However, their ~130 size could still point to them once having had a cap of 150, as they would have lost "slots" due to murdered members over the decades.

Was the newark faction the parent crew to the NJ crew with Ray Cagno, etc?

[Pogo The Clown]

So 1937 was the date when the Newark family was disbanded?


Pogo

[B.]

I believe so. There was confusion because Gentile thought Troia made his attempt on D'Amico first, but he got the order wrong. Troia was probably killed after a failed attempt to take over in 1935. Another source says Joe Profaci ordered the attempt on Gaspare D'Amico that killed his father Domenico, then was responsible for administering the break-up of the family (similar to what Bill Bonanno said about Tom Gagliano and Birmingham).

The two largest factions of the Newark family appear to have been split between Profaci and Gagliano, with Riela joining Bonanno. Antonio Paterno may have been a Newark member who joined the Gambinos and Pietro Campisi and Carmine Battaglia the Genovese. Another possible member was Giovanni Cappello Sr. but he moved to Philly. Both Paterno and Cappello were partners in Empire Yeast with Joe Traina so they had strong Gambino ties.

Obv we don't have a lot of definitive info but the Colombo and Gagliano NJ crews were definitely part of the Newark family.

[Etna]

Reposting this from the Salvo FBI files thread, but I found it interesting. These membership estimates were included in an early 1985 newspaper article following the arrests in the Commission case.

Genovese - 200
Gambino - 250
Lucchese - 100
Colombo - 115
Bonanno - 195

We know a few years later John Gotti would point out to Gigante that they had not filled a large number of membership slots left open by deceased members, so that could account for their relatively smaller size. In the 1960s Pussy Russo stated they had 300 members (possibly in reference to their cap, not actual living members).

When DiLeonardo flipped, he said the Gambino family maintained around 250 members with a cap of 260, so that is consistent with his info.

The Luccheses appear to have maintained a similar membership count to the Colombos throughout their history, so 100 sounds like a reasonable estimate, especially given we know they went on a mass recruitment drive in the years following this.

The Colombo family did an internal family census in 1964 when Joe Colombo took over and had 114 members, so the number 20 years later is consistent with that.

The Bonanno count appears too high. Paul Sciacca stated they had around 180 members in January 1965 and one account has them at around 200 members during that general period, plus JD mentioned a court statement that the family was "brought back to 190" under Massino (which doesn't appear to be true), so there is reason to believe the Bonannos historically may have had this many members. It's possible this total includes the Rochester figures who were for some reason included on Bonanno lists in the 1970s/80s, Canadian members, or other factors, but the Bonanno's books in NYC had been closed between 1979-1984 so it's extremely unlikely this number is at all accurate.

Still, overall this appears to be a pretty accurate snapshot of the sizes these families historically maintained.

Hi B - Which numbered file of the Salvo report are these numbers listed?