Rockford LCN - help with opinions and direction

[Wiseguy]

I’m so glad your life dream is to ensure that these pesky posters don’t influence the minds of of people and make them think there are still LCN families outside of NYC. Snakes just posted a federal document talking about the Rockford LCN from the mid 2000s. But of course that doesn’t mean anything because it goes against your narrative right?

Again, context. Please research the definition of that word.

We are arguing with the same guy who claimed on the old forum that Denver, Dallas and Madison were still around so yeah that would be the case.


Pogo

Are you serious?

[Pogo The Clown]

Yeah he posted it on the RD under his Joeychicago handle. We had this very same Rockford debate with him (and others) all the way back then.


Pogo

[Patrickgold]

People may get sick of my anal-retentive, broken record, soap box ways, but I'll tell you this, left unchecked by somebody, posters like yourself would eventually have some people believing every family from coast to coast is still ticking. Hell, anyone who thinks Rockford is still around in 2021 would be open to any family still being around. Given enough time, I can picture you or others even coming up with Rockford charts, similar to how Milwaukee Phil did with Milwaukee or salviardi did with St. Louis years ago.

We are arguing with the same guy who claimed on the old forum that Denver, Dallas and Madison were still around so yeah that would be the case.


Pogo

That’s hilarious. You have been making that claim since I started posting here so wiseguy no need to act surprised. I’m sure that answer was well thought out after a couple private messages between you two. What’s sadder is both of you have completely derailed this thread like you have hundreds of others. Thank god Wiseguy can sleep better at night now knowing that he stopped the spread of letting people have intelligent conversations

[Snakes]

People may get sick of my anal-retentive, broken record, soap box ways, but I'll tell you this, left unchecked by somebody, posters like yourself would eventually have some people believing every family from coast to coast is still ticking. Hell, anyone who thinks Rockford is still around in 2021 would be open to any family still being around. Given enough time, I can picture you or others even coming up with Rockford charts, similar to how Milwaukee Phil did with Milwaukee or salviardi did with St. Louis years ago.

We are arguing with the same guy who claimed on the old forum that Denver, Dallas and Madison were still around so yeah that would be the case.


Pogo

That’s hilarious. You have been making that claim since I started posting here so wiseguy no need to act surprised. I’m sure that answer was well thought out after a couple private messages between you two. What’s sadder is both of you have completely derailed this thread like you have hundreds of others. Thank god Wiseguy can sleep better at night now knowing that he stopped the spread of letting people have intelligent conversations

Can we just move on? Cavita had a great thread that just got buried amongst all the arguing. I don't want to point fingers or call anyone out because that will only lead to additional arguing so can we just drop it and move on?

[Rat]

To be fair a lot of families that are dead still have a “boss,” I don’t think an informant saying Rockford had one in the early 2000s proves anything.

The family secrets trial was 15 years old, that’s a long time

[Wiseguy]

To be fair a lot of families that are dead still have a “boss,” I don’t think an informant saying Rockford had one in the early 2000s proves anything.

The family secrets trial was 15 years old, that’s a long time

And Rockford was a non-entity long before then.

Can we just move on? Cavita had a great thread that just got buried amongst all the arguing. I don't want to point fingers or call anyone out because that will only lead to additional arguing so can we just drop it and move on?

In the spirit of honestly not wanting to hijack cavita's thread, I'm happy to move on.

[Rat]

These Midwest guys sure love their crime families

How many internet arguments have their been about ___ Midwest Families power/viability compared to other families

Too many to count. But this is nothing. You should have the seen the rage on the forums back when it was first suggested and argued that Chicago was not on a level with any NY family and was on a 2nd tier with Philly, NE and NJ.


Pogo

I would have to guess the real Chicago wars will be in 8-15 years when the first rumblings of the family being no longer viable start to circulate

[Snakes]

Not sure if I have previously shared this with you, Cavita. From a report dated September 1980:

[cavita]

Not sure if I have previously shared this with you, Cavita. From a report dated September 1980:

Snakes
I’ve not seen this file and it confirms what I’ve seen in other files. The part about them being well-entrenched. Relatively independent and concerned mainly with their local geographic area is on par as well. I think the part about Zammuto able to exert considerable influence in other families would be due to his involvement in the LCN going back 60 years from the date of this file.

I have no idea who the nine members they’re talking about would be but I do know the “several additional members” that had been members for years. The younger members being accepted to me points to the Sicilian immigrants from the previous ten years.

The “established source” that advised the Rockford LCN hasn’t engaged in more acts of violence because they established control over what they want is interesting because just five months earlier they murdered member Joe Maggio for his opposition to their entry into the narcotics trade.
Excellent file though and I’m curious as to what the large portion that’s redacted is about. Please let me know if you ever come across any more files like this.

[Snakes]

Not sure if I have previously shared this with you, Cavita. From a report dated September 1980:

Snakes
I’ve not seen this file and it confirms what I’ve seen in other files. The part about them being well-entrenched. Relatively independent and concerned mainly with their local geographic area is on par as well. I think the part about Zammuto able to exert considerable influence in other families would be due to his involvement in the LCN going back 60 years from the date of this file.

I have no idea who the nine members they’re talking about would be but I do know the “several additional members” that had been members for years. The younger members being accepted to me points to the Sicilian immigrants from the previous ten years.

The “established source” that advised the Rockford LCN hasn’t engaged in more acts of violence because they established control over what they want is interesting because just five months earlier they murdered member Joe Maggio for his opposition to their entry into the narcotics trade.
Excellent file though and I’m curious as to what the large portion that’s redacted is about. Please let me know if you ever come across any more files like this.

Will do; this was part of a Chicago file and didn't include any more Rockford info. I'll look through some other files and let you know if I come across anything worth posting.

[Snakes]

Here is something else I came across which I find particularly interesting; dated January 1986:



What I find interesting is that they are essentially changing the classification of Rockford from a "faction" of the Outfit to a "Sicilian Mafia" organization, not an LCN organization. You can see that the Chicago "Family" is clearly labeled as LCN, while the Rockford's "new" designation is Sicilian Mafia. Maybe most of the imported Sicilians were already members of the Sicilian Mafia and essentially changed it from an LCN family to a Sicilian organization operating in the U.S.? The FBI are very clear about their designations and specifically classify Italian or Italian-American individuals as members of one of five groups:

LCN (American Mafia)
Sicilian Mafia (operating in U.S.)
Camorra (operating in U.S.)
N'Drangheta (operating in U.S.)
Canadian LCN (American LCN members operating in Canada)

I'm not sure if this means much, or if it was just a temporary designation.

Additionally, Zammuto was described as a "capo" in the Chicago - Rockford LCN when he died so I'm not sure if they ever figured out a definitive classification for Rockford. Cavita, was Zammuto boss of Rockford at this time? Maybe Chicago absorbed them but Rockford is later mentioned independently (see the reference to Saladino as being the alleged boss of the "Rockford LCN").

[Snakes]

More items of interest. Sorry, I'm just posting these as I come across them in the files. January 1984:



It seems like Empire Distributing may be affiliated with the "rival company" mentioned above as it was mentioned after several redacted (sigh) paragraphs of intel.

[cavita]

Here is something else I came across which I find particularly interesting; dated January 1986:



What I find interesting is that they are essentially changing the classification of Rockford from a "faction" of the Outfit to a "Sicilian Mafia" organization, not an LCN organization. You can see that the Chicago "Family" is clearly labeled as LCN, while the Rockford's "new" designation is Sicilian Mafia. Maybe most of the imported Sicilians were already members of the Sicilian Mafia and essentially changed it from an LCN family to a Sicilian organization operating in the U.S.? The FBI are very clear about their designations and specifically classify Italian or Italian-American individuals as members of one of five groups:

LCN (American Mafia)
Sicilian Mafia (operating in U.S.)
Camorra (operating in U.S.)
N'Drangheta (operating in U.S.)
Canadian LCN (American LCN members operating in Canada)

Extremely interesting in that I had wondered in the back of my mind if the Rockford family had been "absorbed" into a Sicilian mafia cell of sorts. Word in Rockford that after Zammuto died in 1990 was that Sal Galluzzo took over. He traveled back often to Aragona and had extensive land and business holdings in the Rockford area. These are the types of file entries I'm looking for as they offer a lot of information and open the door to a new direction to look in. As for the Detroit vending "rival" I've never heard of them or any presence in Rockford though they could be in the files I have under redaction. I'm wondering what the Detroit/Rockford connection could be but I do know that Zammuto had a grandson named Ray Zammuto that was supposed to be living in Detroit in 1980. FBI files in the mid 80s pointed to the involvement of a Ray Zammuto in the narcotics distribution in Rockford but the FBI was unable to gather info on this Ray Zammuto despite a Buffalo source's information.

[Patrickgold]

Great finds. This makes me think that the Sicilians coming from Sicily were already mafia members in Sicily and were not made in Rockford. Also, could it be possible that this organization that operates in Rockford is a hybrid organization with members from LCN and Sicilian mafia in Sicily. It could also be that the FEDs really just never had a grasp on Rockford bc they never really were dedicated in investigating them. The fact that it said Zammuto had influence with other families across the United States is very interesting and a statement of their influence considering their small size.

[Patrickgold]

More items of interest. Sorry, I'm just posting these as I come across them in the files. January 1984:



It seems like Empire Distributing may be affiliated with the "rival company" mentioned above as it was mentioned after several redacted (sigh) paragraphs of intel.

I wonder if Scott B can comment on this Detroit connection.