Sammy claims Watts an informant

[NYNighthawk]

Gravano's book Underboss talks about Watts flipping in the last chapter. What does everyone thik now that Watts is getting out of the halfway house- John Carneglia is home as well Gene Gotti. Will they make one last hurrah as part of teh Gambino family? Or better yet - the feds go after all three of them in a conspiracy for the Castellano hit.

[Tonyd621]

It is odd that Sammy is somehow trying to disassociate himself with having flipped, but he’s always been self serving. Seems to be on an image rehabilitation tour.

Yeah he portrays himself like a stand up guy, tough mafioso. It is pathetic. He is full of shit.

In the latest video he states how Gotti helped out a friend without even knowing Gravano. Its one of the first things gotti did and the last thing Gravano did for him was fuck him over. Gravano is mentally weak. The whole thing Gravano flipped was bc Gotti talked shit about him on tape and he got upset. Unfortunatley ppl talk shit behind
Each others backs-freinds or not. The mob is not immune to this and rolling bc of it is an even worse excuse. I would of respected him more if he said look, i didnt want to go to prison for the rest of my life. We can all understand that. I mean even Liborio Bellomo was ok with Cafaro Sr being a govt cooperator and Cafaros son is still in the life and still in thr Genoveses to my knowledge.
Gravano acts like he got respect from everything and everyone. From the AB to the blacks to the bikers etc.

[chubby]

Funny if watts was cause didn’t jr gotti give up watts and Danny Marino on a murder or something??

[TommyNoto]

It is odd that Sammy is somehow trying to disassociate himself with having flipped, but he’s always been self serving. Seems to be on an image rehabilitation tour.

Yeah he portrays himself like a stand up guy, tough mafioso. It is pathetic. He is full of shit.

In the latest video he states how Gotti helped out a friend without even knowing Gravano. Its one of the first things gotti did and the last thing Gravano did for him was fuck him over. Gravano is mentally weak. The whole thing Gravano flipped was bc Gotti talked shit about him on tape and he got upset. Unfortunatley ppl talk shit behind
Each others backs-freinds or not. The mob is not immune to this and rolling bc of it is an even worse excuse. I would of respected him more if he said look, i didnt want to go to prison for the rest of my life. We can all understand that. I mean even Liborio Bellomo was ok with Cafaro Sr being a govt cooperator and Cafaros son is still in the life and still in thr Genoveses to my knowledge.
Gravano acts like he got respect from everything and everyone. From the AB to the blacks to the bikers etc.

Not to change the subject but Tom Cafaro ( Fish son ) was caught on tape with Rubeo talking mob politics and the landfill the Bonnano guy had. It would be really interesting to know whether he is still involved and whether Barney made him. You would have to think Rubeo would only record conversations with criminal liability potential.

I wish we asked Rubeo about him

Apparently he lives in Fl too

[Nick Prango]

It is odd that Sammy is somehow trying to disassociate himself with having flipped, but he’s always been self serving. Seems to be on an image rehabilitation tour.

Yeah he portrays himself like a stand up guy, tough mafioso. It is pathetic. He is full of shit.

In the latest video he states how Gotti helped out a friend without even knowing Gravano. Its one of the first things gotti did and the last thing Gravano did for him was fuck him over. Gravano is mentally weak. The whole thing Gravano flipped was bc Gotti talked shit about him on tape and he got upset. Unfortunatley ppl talk shit behind
Each others backs-freinds or not. The mob is not immune to this and rolling bc of it is an even worse excuse. I would of respected him more if he said look, i didnt want to go to prison for the rest of my life. We can all understand that. I mean even Liborio Bellomo was ok with Cafaro Sr being a govt cooperator and Cafaros son is still in the life and still in thr Genoveses to my knowledge.
Gravano acts like he got respect from everything and everyone. From the AB to the blacks to the bikers etc.

I totally agree with you. We all know Gotti was a blabbermouth and not the sharpest tool in the shed so maybe he was just blowing off steam. At the end of the day, John Gotti was getting life with or without Gravano cooperating. He buried himself in those tapes. Gravano cooperating gave them access to everything the family had going on and alot of the other family's too. The rackets, old homicides, you name it. They had Gotti on tape admitting to homicides and being the boss and much more. They are both very bad men, without question. But if we look at thing within the context of Mafia rules, then Sammy The Bull is without question one of the biggest turncoats of all time.Salvatore Gravano just saved his skin. Gravano is pathetic. He acts like he is always right. He portrays himself like a stand up guy, tough mafioso. But he is not. He flipped because he didn't want to go to prison for the rest of his life. That is the truth. He is lucky because IMO nowadays it would be incredibly stupid for the Gambino crime family to kill Gravano, even if he does flaunt his existence. I strongly dislike the whole Sammy celebrity shtick. I don’t think a man who ratted on all of his friends and associates is in the best position to speak on honor, toughness, prison notoriety, loyalty etc.

Neither man would get a big stamp of approval by traditionalists in the Mafia. John Gotti looked and lived like a King, something old school mafia men usually did not want to do so as not to attracted attention. Gotti reveled in his victories against the federal government but this only motivated them more to go after him and eventually to win. Gotti was a terrible boss. On the other hand, I am sure historians would say that Salvatore Gravano did more than just hurt John Gotti in his operation with the state. Gravano is trying to shift blame from himself so people won't think negatively of him; he's spinning his side of the story and doing damage control. Ultimately Salvatore Sammy the Bull Gravano became the first underboss to cooperate with the police. LCN or no, you never cooperate with the police. It's the first commandment of being a criminal. Gravano broke the rules. Maybe there is some truth in his stories about what lead him breaking the rules, but if that’s the case doesn’t give Gravano the right to turn and snitch. He should’ve killed John Gotti right there in jail, like a true man and honorable mafioso. Of course he didn’t do that and informed not only on Gotti but his whole mafia family.

[Amershire_Ed]

It is odd that Sammy is somehow trying to disassociate himself with having flipped, but he’s always been self serving. Seems to be on an image rehabilitation tour.

Yeah he portrays himself like a stand up guy, tough mafioso. It is pathetic. He is full of shit.

In the latest video he states how Gotti helped out a friend without even knowing Gravano. Its one of the first things gotti did and the last thing Gravano did for him was fuck him over. Gravano is mentally weak. The whole thing Gravano flipped was bc Gotti talked shit about him on tape and he got upset. Unfortunatley ppl talk shit behind
Each others backs-freinds or not. The mob is not immune to this and rolling bc of it is an even worse excuse. I would of respected him more if he said look, i didnt want to go to prison for the rest of my life. We can all understand that. I mean even Liborio Bellomo was ok with Cafaro Sr being a govt cooperator and Cafaros son is still in the life and still in thr Genoveses to my knowledge.
Gravano acts like he got respect from everything and everyone. From the AB to the blacks to the bikers etc.

Ultimately Salvatore Sammy the Bull Gravano became the first underboss to cooperate with the police.

This is false as Phil Leonetti testified as an underboss a couple years before Gravano did. They even theorize in Mafia Prince that part of the reason Gravano cooperated is because Leonetti was going to bury him anyways.

Gravano is a slimy backstabbing rat bastard but Gotti had zero business ever being in the boss position. And he got family members and friends a shit ton of prison time based on nothing but bull headed ignorance. He wouldn’t let guys plead out. Wouldn’t let them take deals that would’ve had them back on the street. I know the street guys love him but he was a freaking moron when it came to making executive decisions. And he was a total loud mouth.

[chin_gigante]

And Angelo Lonardo was before Leonetti. And wasn't Fratianno acting underboss before that

[Pogo The Clown]

If I'm not mistaken St. Louis UnderBoss John Vitale also cooperated in the early 1980s but I don't know if he ever testified.


Pogo

[Rat]

It seems weird he claimed the AB basically extorted Gotti when Gotti is credited with being a major influence on the AB

[Wiseguy]

It seems weird he claimed the AB basically extorted Gotti when Gotti is credited with being a major influence on the AB

Well, supposedly Gotti was paying them to watch his back. Sort of how Nicky Scarfo did with the Mexicans when he was in prison. Nobody approached Gotti and said, "You're going to pay us X amount every month." According to court testimony of an AB guy, Gotti was supposed to find an attorney for AB leader Barry Mills. For whatever reason, Gotti didn't follow through with this and Mills ordered the AB to withdraw their protection. This was in 1994.

But it wasn't until 1996 that Gotti was attacked by Johnson. Would Johnson have attacked Gotti if he knew the AB was still protecting him? Maybe, maybe not. Gotti then offered to pay the AB to kill Johnson, which they supposedly accepted. But they didn't seem to be in too much of a hurry because Johnson was paroled in 2001 and ended up killing a cop a short time later. It seems to me Johnson was simply a nut who would have attacked anyone, no matter who they were or who's protection they were under.

[Nick Prango]

It seems weird he claimed the AB basically extorted Gotti when Gotti is credited with being a major influence on the AB

Well, supposedly Gotti was paying them to watch his back. Sort of how Nicky Scarfo did with the Mexicans when he was in prison. Nobody approached Gotti and said, "You're going to pay us X amount every month." According to court testimony of an AB guy, Gotti was supposed to find an attorney for AB leader Barry Mills. For whatever reason, Gotti didn't follow through with this and Mills ordered the AB to withdraw their protection. This was in 1994.

But it wasn't until 1996 that Gotti was attacked by Johnson. Would Johnson have attacked Gotti if he knew the AB was still protecting him? Maybe, maybe not. Gotti then offered to pay the AB to kill Johnson, which they supposedly accepted. But they didn't seem to be in too much of a hurry because Johnson was paroled in 2001 and ended up killing a cop a short time later. It seems to me Johnson was simply a nut who would have attacked anyone, no matter who they were or who's protection they were under.

Exactly. Walter Johnson was a total fucking nutjob who would have attacked anyone, no matter who they were or who's protection they were under. Personally i think that the whole John Gotti extorted by the Aryan Brotherhood story is over exaggerated. One reason it's hard to believe he was extorted on a regular basis is because it would have made the news. Just like the Walter Johnson incident. The feds got a kick out of humiliating him. Probably he payed the Aryan Brotherhood to kill Johnson, but they didn't follow through. That is believable. IMO John Gotti was never extorted. He was jumped by a mentally unstable young guy and that's it. Gotti was an 55 year old man by then (1996) so of course the younger 28 year old Johnson had the upper hand. Watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU7QvKU ... l=StreetTV This black guy was hanging out with John Gotti on a daily basis in Marion in the late 90s/early00s. He speaks very highly of Gotti. He makes it seem like Gotti had no real issues there. He says that Gotti avoided AB guys there. He says that Gotti didn't want to talk about Salvatore Gravano. It is interesting. This guy says that when Gravano arrest in Arizona was on the news, the prisoners called Gotti, but he didn't even want to watch.

[Nick Prango]

It seems weird he claimed the AB basically extorted Gotti when Gotti is credited with being a major influence on the AB

Personally i think that the whole John Gotti extorted by the Aryan Brotherhood story is over exaggerated. One reason it's hard to believe he was assaulted again or extorted on a regular basis is because it would have made the news. Just like the Walter Johnson incident. The feds got a kick out of humiliating him. Probably Gotti was running his mouth and got what was coming to him. He was jumped by 28 year old Walter Johnson. But he was never extorted by the Aryan Brotherhood. Gotti was arrogant and narcissistic that personality type had difficulty getting along with others. You have to humble yourself in prison to a certain degree and respect the other prisoners. Some prisoners don't give a crap who you were on the outside. And who cares if he got beaten up anyway? Gotti was 55 in the summer of 1996. Gotti was old and sick by this point. People make a big deal about a young 28 year old guy beating the crap out of a 55 year old man.

[Uncle Pete]

I agree way too much had been made of this. Gotti was a street guy who’s whole life was based on not backing down. I’m sure Gotti knew he would not get the better of Johnson but I don’t think for one second Gotti hesitated to raise his hands to him either.

Even look at that photo of Gotti after the fight, he wasn’t looking to bad at all. If you are a 55 year old man and you just get into a fight with a 28 year old and that’s the only damage you had, you probably handled that fight pretty well in my opinion

[Nick Prango]

I agree way too much had been made of this. Gotti was a street guy who’s whole life was based on not backing down. I’m sure Gotti knew he would not get the better of Johnson but I don’t think for one second Gotti hesitated to raise his hands to him either.

Even look at that photo of Gotti after the fight, he wasn’t looking to bad at all. If you are a 55 year old man and you just get into a fight with a 28 year old and that’s the only damage you had, you probably handled that fight pretty well in my opinion

Spot on. In his younger years, Gotti was a well known tough guy who was really good with his hands. He was jumped by Walter Jonhson. He was still a stand up guy, gave no names, dusted himself off and moved on. And no doubt if Gotti knew it was coming the results may have been different even at that stage in Gotti’s life.

[Rat]

Gotti helped the AB reorganize their leadership structure which I don’t think they would of had him play a part in if they took him for a chump