New Pennisi Article About Philadelphia

[joeycigars]

GS also said Pennisi sounds like he trying to hem up Mazzone on ordering the hit on Gongs

[chin_gigante]

DS and GA basically called Pennisi a BS artist that talks good, To Quote GA why would anyone believe (Pennisi) him,GA and DS say this info on Gongs murder talked was on the internet world for years before Pennisi BLOGGED it ,

That's a complete mischaracterisation and oversimplification of their discussion

[chin_gigante]

A transcript of the relevant section of GA and DS' discussion:



GA: This is at a time, 2016, when that Lucchese group up in North Jersey - the Pernas - they were dominated by the Pernas. The father and the two sons. Pennisi I think was close to at least one of the Pernas and says he came down here with one of them and met with the Philadelphia guys. They had lunch, they went around the city a little bit, they got together again in the evening, and out of that comes these allegations that Pennisi's now putting in his blog about two different murders. About who was involved in those murders, who okayed those murders, and then some other personal stuff that we don't wanna get into. But, I mean, the fascinating - two things that are interesting to me. One: Pennisi's following now in the footsteps of a lot of different guys that are starting to use social media. Starting with Michael Franzese, John Alite, Bobby Luisi, Sammy Gravano. It's kind of the new thing. Everybody's got a platform now and everybody wants to tell their story in their own words.

DS: And not afraid to use that platform either. Not at all.

GA: Right. And that's something that 20 years ago we wouldn't have seen. So that's interesting. The other interesting thing is the timing of this, of what Pennisi said. Why does this become the story three days after Stevie's released from jail? Because he, in his recounting of what he learned, he alleges that Stevie at least was involved in I guess approving one of the murders that he's alleging in this blog. I don't know. The timing is certainly suspect. What, why, when? Those kind of things. Why's it coming out now? I guess the third element is you gotta keep in perspective what Pennisi's saying in his blog is information he gleans second-hand. He doesn't have first-hand knowledge.

DS: Hearsay.

GA: Yeah. I don't think he can be a potential witness to any of the things he's talking about. But he does basically put information out there that'll give the feds a roadmap to some stuff. I'm not sure what the motivation for all of this has been. I'm not sure if the feds are happy with this or upset with this. And, frankly, I mean you and I both know, the stuff that he put in his blog is something that has been floating around in the gossip underworld for a while now. So it's not necessarily new. But it is the first time anybody's put it out there.

DS: But I could see them using John Pennisi in this situation as kind of like a primer or a table setter. If he did in fact go to a meeting, which I believe that meeting was actually observed by law enforcement. If he did go to such a meeting as he explained it and set it up, he named names, he named positions. He talked about different places they went to. He puts Dom Grande in a second murder. I don't believe that information is accurate but he puts him there in this blog. So he knows the players. He could possibly be called as a witness and said, "In January or February of 2016 did you come to Philadelphia to a meeting? Who was at the meeting and how were they introduced to you?" And he could talk about the different people he was introduced to at that meeting and their standing. And if that jives with what the government has laid out in their case that could kind of help the jury walk to it. Don't you think?

GA: Well yeah, but I think there are other individuals more conversed in Philadelphia who have cooperated in the past who might be able to do that as well. The question I think with Pennisi is: Pennisi's called as a witness, what does he know that's relative to the charges in the case? That's what it comes down to. So we'll see. He's certainly a potential wild card and the other thing Dave is we don't know what he's gonna write going forward. Maybe there's more. And quite frankly, he writes fairly well.

DS: Yes he does.

GA: He knows how to string sentences together. It's not a bunch of nonsense that you can't follow. It's very concise, very well-written for whatever that's worth.

DS: Yeah, and let's break down this car ride that he alleges he had after that night on the town with the Philly guys. He says he's in a car with Joe Perna driving back to North Jersey. Joe Perna who by the way had his car bugged I believe once before in Operation Heat or one of the Pernas did. You would think they wouldn't wanna have conversations in a car on a ride back to North Jersey. But the car ride is where all the dirt gets spilled and I think in Philadelphia folks are trying to figure out what's Joe Perna, if he did say this, doing talking about our stuff with this guy? And that's gotta rankle a few people in Philadelphia I would think.

GA: Yeah I think in terms of underworld protocol and who was friends with who and what they talk about, that - it's not about criminality it's just if you're a part of that world that's not the way you're supposed to conduct yourself. Another thing about it is, obviously we weren't there and you don't know, but some of it has the real ring of truth because he talks about how they were joking about how these guys down in South Philly parade. And that was a reference to the Mummers. And they dance around with umbrellas and they were kind of like mocking those guys. You don't just pick that out of the blue. That probably was a real conversation. At least it sounds like it was a real conversation.

DS: And to be honest with you there are some guys who might take offence to that. Joey Merlino's been in the Mummers parade. Steve Mazzone's been in the Mummers parade. Sonny Mazzone's been in it. Dom Grande's been in it. I mean with the Jesters and other clubs they belong to and things like that. They might take issue with that mocking kind of tone that at least came through in the article.

GA: Yeah, that's the personal stuff that you don't know how people are gonna react to. But I don't think they're gonna react very well to it. But you know how this is gonna play out Dave, they're gonna dismiss this at the end of the day. "This guy's a rat, this guy's giving stuff up, why would anyone believe him?" I think you're right though. I think the bigger problem might be whoever they perceive to be the source for his information and whether that person betrayed kind of the trust and understanding. We'll see.

DS: And look, Pennisi -

GA: It's an interesting side story in all of this.

DS: No doubt about it. And it came right to the front because Mazzone had just come home and clearly Philly is a hot topic right now because of those indictments in November. 15 defendant case that we're talking about here. So it is a hot topic and he puts nice hot coals on that fire right there. And listen I already start hearing verberations from the mob world about Pennisi's background. Because he testified in those two trials, his background and his misdeeds from the past are already kind of out there. And I already start hearing, "This guy did this, and this guy did that, and this guy did this." There are already starting to beat up on the guy.

GA: Oh yeah, you wanna discredit him. Certainly if he's on the witness stand you wanna discredit him but in the world that they're all living in right now in terms of what he said and why he said it and it's a public thing. You wanna discredit it and you wanna challenge him. That's what this is about.

DS: Alright, shouldn't get away from the fact that it's no secret that Joe Perna is friends with alleged mob boss Joey Merlino. He's been seen in pictures down in Florida, he's been seen in pictures up at the Jersey Shore in past years, things like that. Can't be going over well with the Skinny Guy down in Boca Raton.

GA: Not at all.

[joeycigars]

DS and GA basically called Pennisi a BS artist that talks good, To Quote GA why would anyone believe (Pennisi) him,GA and DS say this info on Gongs murder talked was on the internet world for years before Pennisi BLOGGED it ,

That's a complete mischaracterisation and oversimplification of their discussion

GA: Yeah, that's the personal stuff that you don't know how people are gonna react to. But I don't think they're gonna react very well to it. But you know how this is gonna play out Dave, they're gonna dismiss this at the end of the day. "This guy's a rat, this guy's giving stuff up, why would anyone believe him?" I think you're right though. I think the bigger problem might be whoever they perceive to be the source for his information and whether that person betrayed kind of the trust and understanding. We'll see.


DS: Hearsay.

DS: He puts Dom Grande in a second murder. I don't believe that information is accurate but he puts him there in this blog. So he knows the players.


GA: Pennisi his recounting of what he learned, he alleges that Stevie at least was involved in I guess approving one of the murders that he's alleging in this blog. I don't know. The timing is certainly suspect. What, why, when? Those kind of things


I quoted GA and DS ,

[JoeCamel]

Good point about the mummers parade and joe perna running his mouth making fun of the philly guys. Definitely more of a personal stab the way pennisi lays it out. Maybe perna was more teasing them or laying it out good natured making fun, but Pennisi puts it out he’s being disrespectful. Who knows but JP definitely stirring up the shit. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do try to whack him. Sets a new precedent if the mob whacks even one of these cooperators on social media. One murder and this exploitation is over and the mob goes more underground like the old days

[Wiseguy]

Admittedly I don't know anything about it besides it looks like something out of Mardi Gras but I've been surprised mob guys in Philly would take part in the Mummers parade.

[Tonyd621]

Good point about the mummers parade and joe perna running his mouth making fun of the philly guys. Definitely more of a personal stab the way pennisi lays it out. Maybe perna was more teasing them or laying it out good natured making fun, but Pennisi puts it out he’s being disrespectful. Who knows but JP definitely stirring up the shit. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do try to whack him. Sets a new precedent if the mob whacks even one of these cooperators on social media. One murder and this exploitation is over and the mob goes more underground like the old days

Whack him? Cmon man...

[JoeCamel]

Good point about the mummers parade and joe perna running his mouth making fun of the philly guys. Definitely more of a personal stab the way pennisi lays it out. Maybe perna was more teasing them or laying it out good natured making fun, but Pennisi puts it out he’s being disrespectful. Who knows but JP definitely stirring up the shit. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do try to whack him. Sets a new precedent if the mob whacks even one of these cooperators on social media. One murder and this exploitation is over and the mob goes more underground like the old days

Whack him? Cmon man...

Just speculating. However unlikely


On another note, here it is Joey dancing in mummers parade

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit ... ncing_don/

[chin_gigante]

DS and GA basically called Pennisi a BS artist that talks good, To Quote GA why would anyone believe (Pennisi) him,GA and DS say this info on Gongs murder talked was on the internet world for years before Pennisi BLOGGED it ,

That's a complete mischaracterisation and oversimplification of their discussion

GA: Yeah, that's the personal stuff that you don't know how people are gonna react to. But I don't think they're gonna react very well to it. But you know how this is gonna play out Dave, they're gonna dismiss this at the end of the day. "This guy's a rat, this guy's giving stuff up, why would anyone believe him?" I think you're right though. I think the bigger problem might be whoever they perceive to be the source for his information and whether that person betrayed kind of the trust and understanding. We'll see.


DS: Hearsay.

DS: He puts Dom Grande in a second murder. I don't believe that information is accurate but he puts him there in this blog. So he knows the players.

I quoted GA ,RE read what he said not my words'

"Why would anyone believe him?" Clearly he's talking about what guys on the street are gonna say. He's not stating his own opinion on Pennisi with that statement. It's pretty clear he thinks there's some truth to the article. And Schratwieser is talking about one specific part of the story that Pennisi heard from Joe Perna. That's not the same thing as, in your words, "basically called Pennisi a BS artist". You took quite a nuanced and careful conversation and condensed it to that. So yeah, that's an oversimplified mischaracterisation.

[Dave65827]

My opinion I think Penninsi is mostly telling the truth but is trying to settle Old scores with people that wronged him or forced him to cooperate. On his Instagram he said he heard Johnny Sideburns was getting worried he would get pinched or whacked due to Penninsis posts

[joeycigars]

You took quite a nuanced and careful conversation and condensed it to that. So yeah, that's an oversimplified mischaracterisation.

Let me simplify it even more then ....QUOTE directly from Dave Schratwieser " I don't believe that information is accurate "

All respect Chin ,I agree with Dave Schratwieser

[chin_gigante]

You took quite a nuanced and careful conversation and condensed it to that. So yeah, that's an oversimplified mischaracterisation.

Let me simplify it even more then ....QUOTE directly from Dave Schratwieser " I don't believe that information is accurate "

All respect Chin ,I agree with Dave Schratwieser

Again, he's talking SPECIFICALLY about the Casasanto hit information. Not the entire article.

[joeycigars]

Chin , I agree with you ,
MY point is If you take out the inaccurate info on Pennisi being introduced to Doms "wife" and being "pregnant" and take out the inaccurate info on Mazzone ordering a murder according to DS ,Then yes ..Pennisi took a ride down the Jersey turn pike to meet some guys,

You know better then most Chin , This info on Philly was out there on the forums for ages ,Pennisi is reshuffling the deck with the same cards on top looks good and fools a lot of people , This is my opinion , I dont fault anyone who falls for good inaccurate stories 90% truth 10% inaccurate , I love a good story too ,

GA: The other interesting thing is the timing of this, of what Pennisi said. Why does this become the story three days after Stevie's released from jail? Because he, in his recounting of what he learned, he alleges that Stevie at least was involved in I guess approving one of the murders that he's alleging in this blog. I don't know. The timing is certainly suspect. What, why, when? Those kind of things. Why's it coming out now? I guess the third element is you gotta keep in perspective what Pennisi's saying in his blog is information he gleans second-hand. He doesn't have first-hand knowledge.

I think Pennisi has really good info on his time in the Luccheses , But he went outside his wheelhouse on this one

[Angelo Santino]

I think Pennisi's core knowledge centers around his crew, his region and the Luccheses and the more he goes out of his area the less he can be accurate on. I think his exploration of Philly is interesting, but this goes into the hierarchy of sources. If he said Joe Licata was consig meanwhile we have wiretaps that come out of Philly to reveal it being Ligambi, I'm going to go with the latter likely being more accurate. It doesn't mean that Pennisi was lying or trying to embellish. These guys are gangsters, they're not going around trying to take notes on everything.

[joeycigars]

I think Pennisi's core knowledge centers around his crew, his region and the Luccheses and the more he goes out of his area the less he can be accurate on. I think his exploration of Philly is interesting, but this goes into the hierarchy of sources. If he said Joe Licata was consig meanwhile we have wiretaps that come out of Philly to reveal it being Ligambi, I'm going to go with the latter likely being more accurate. It doesn't mean that Pennisi was lying or trying to embellish. These guys are gangsters, they're not going around trying to take notes on everything.

Hello CC, Where does Pennisi get the Joe Licata was consig, In your opinion , From his ride to Philly ? do the dates and charts match up ?