Philadelphia's Boston Crew

[scott22]

It was Borgesi's daughter's wedding engagement party.

[JohnnyS]

Interesting article. Scott's info on Philly in recent years has been very good.

[Wiseguy]

For the record, I think any of us are fine giving credit when its due. Maybe some of us don't mention that enough when it comes to Scott and the things he gets right. But the above posts outline why there are those who don't always take his reporting at face value. And I do sympathize with the inherent difficulty of reporting on a secret criminal organization. None of this is personal.

Scott isn't even the main reason for me being skeptical about a Philly crew in Boston - or is it Providence now? The primary reason is the shrinking geographical scope of the LCN in general. Contrary to recent posts about families operating hundreds or thousands of miles away from their base, the general trend for years now is the opposite.

When was the last time we saw an Outfit crew outside of Chicago? The Patriarca family is basically Boston at this point. We're even seeing a big decrease in NY family activity in Florida, the Genovese family in Springfield, etc. But Philly has set up shop in New England?

[dack2001]

I don't think anyone serious can doubt they made guys up in NE and had a crew operating. Christ, five guys went to the can over it (Previte was a Philly rat) and Joey beat a drug dealing trial based upon it. That they are still operating today given they are all out makes a lot of sense. There are serious LCN people left up in New England. I'm sure the proper people put in a beef when Joey and George made those guys. Doesn't seem like New England was in a position to "object" more than putting in a beef. It was George's crew, he has the best reach nationally. He was probably smoothing things out in the can. Make sense any money they make up that way the local group would get a taste. Seems an appropriate resolution. Long tradition of guys brokering deals to operate in other areas and giving someone a taste.

[JoeCamel]

Well even so, for the wise guys on here, the feds did just say on the indictment philly has recently made members in Massachusetts and Florida in the last 5 years. They definitely said it. The feds are never wrong according to you guys

[Wiseguy]

Well even so, for the wise guys on here, the feds did just say on the indictment philly has recently made members in Massachusetts and Florida in the last 5 years. They definitely said it. The feds are never wrong according to you guys

They definitely said it? Where? I didn't see any such claims in the press release, indictment, or Grande's detention memo. Those things did certainly go over a making ceremony but the only areas any of those covered was Philadelphia and South Jersey.

The only place I recall seeing claims about guys getting made in Massachusetts and Florida was Scott's blog -

The FBI believes the mafia in Philly is in the midst of ballooning its’ ranks and stretching its’ reach; a crew in New England has been operational for more than five years, reinvigorating a presence in the region from the late 1990s, per sources. Soldiers have been “made” in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey and Florida, in the flood of recent ceremonies, sources claim.
https://gangsterreport.com/feds-have-ph ... tion-memo/

[B.]

If there was no precedent I could understand the skepticism but like Dack said they had a captain and made members there. One of the remaining Boston members has been seen visiting South Philly, is friends with Borgesi's wife, and makes excited Twitter posts about South Philly Italians defending statues. The idea of Philly maintaining or even expanding their existing interests there is not pure fan fiction, though I will wait for the evidence to see if they have made members in Rhode Island and a new NE captain.

There is a narrative that has developed where people believe the mafia is "over" and isn't interested in making new members and expanding its network. I think this came from some of the journalism that was popular in the 1980s-2000s surrounding all of the big indictments, where the narrative was that the mafia is dead and members in different areas want nothing to do with each other.

The last ten years have shown this narrative isn't true, with Bonanno and Gambino members going to Sicily to restore/strengthen ties, the Bonannos inducting a member in Ontario with direct support from the Buffalo underboss, and Joey Merlino heavily networking with the Lucchese and Genovese families, the Philly leadership having a meet-and-greet with the Gambino leadership, etc.

Philly attempting to restore its existing NE crew isn't a far-fetched daydream but something that could realistically happen. Again, though I will wait to hear more.

[Wiseguy]

If there was no precedent I could understand the skepticism but like Dack said they had a captain and made members there.

20+ years ago.

One of the remaining Boston members has been seen visiting South Philly, is friends with Borgesi's wife, and makes excited Twitter posts about South Philly Italians defending statues.

You mean we have a blog post and Twitter posts? Why didn't you say so? I'm convinced.

The idea of Philly maintaining or even expanding their existing interests there is not pure fan fiction, though I will wait for the evidence to see if they have made members in Rhode Island and a new NE captain.

What existing interests?

There is a narrative that has developed where people believe the mafia is "over" and isn't interested in making new members and expanding its network. I think this came from some of the journalism that was popular in the 1980s-2000s surrounding all of the big indictments, where the narrative was that the mafia is dead and members in different areas want nothing to do with each other.

The last ten years have shown this narrative isn't true, with Bonanno and Gambino members going to Sicily to restore/strengthen ties, the Bonannos inducting a member in Ontario with direct support from the Buffalo underboss, and Joey Merlino heavily networking with the Lucchese and Genovese families, the Philly leadership having a meet-and-greet with the Gambino leadership, etc.

Apples and bowling balls compared to a Philly crew in New England today.

Philly attempting to restore its existing NE crew isn't a far-fetched daydream but something that could realistically happen. Again, though I will wait to hear more.

Down the hall to the right there's a waiting room. The guys waiting for the next big Buffalo bust have been in there a while. They might like some company.

[B.]

Joey Merlino and the Philly leadership going to NYC and Newark to actively network with the leadership of the Genovese, Lucchese, and Gambino families is more absurd than maintaining ties to their own made member(s) in New England and trying to re-establish their presence there?

A Bonanno member going to Sicily to ask the Castellammare boss for a favor is more believable than Philadelphia trying to re-build their New England crew?

Look at the way underboss Mazzone talks about being a "gangster" and giving orders to retake South Jersey. South Jersey is much closer and traditionally their territory, but it's not far-fetched to think the same mindset applies to New England, where they have at least one member who remains close to the Philly leadership.

I've got nothing to prove myself, as it's on Scott to have his info substantiated by inside sources or investigation, but we need to redefine what we consider far-fetched in a mafia context.

I'd be surprised if Philly's New England presence is generating substantial riches or getting deep into local corruption, but in terms of expanding the network, they already have a made member there and that is an open door.

[Wiseguy]

Joey Merlino and the Philly leadership going to NYC and Newark to actively network with the leadership of the Genovese, Lucchese, and Gambino families is more absurd than maintaining ties to their own made member(s) in New England and trying to re-establish their presence there?

No, those things aren't more absurd. And there's actually evidence for them that resulted in an indictment.

A Bonanno member going to Sicily to ask the Castellammare boss for a favor is more believable than Philadelphia trying to re-build their New England crew?

Yes.

Look at the way underboss Mazzone talks about being a "gangster" and giving orders to retake South Jersey. South Jersey is much closer and traditionally their territory, but it's not far-fetched to think the same mindset applies to New England, where they have at least one member who remains close to the Philly leadership.

South Jersey has traditionally been their territory for decades and, according to the indictment, they were working to regain control of things in Atlantic City. If that's the case with things in their own backyard, what's the likelihood of them of them having a standing crew in New England?

I've got nothing to prove myself, as it's on Scott to have his info substantiated by inside sources or investigation, but we need to redefine what we consider far-fetched in a mafia context.

I'd be surprised if Philly's New England presence is generating substantial riches or getting deep into local corruption, but in terms of expanding the network, they already have a made member there and that is an open door.

I've explained why any family having a crew based outside its traditional base today is far-fetched. Even for the NY families.

[joeycigars]

I've explained why any family having a crew based outside its traditional base today is far-fetched. Even for the NY families.

Street gangs, Prison gangs and MC's and plenty other OC groups operate outside traditional base today with impunity , In MY opinion.....with no proof just intuition , I suspect there is more drug dealing going on in the Philly family then they are getting hemmed up with, There is just to much money on the east coast to not get involved and not enough traditional rackets,They have been know to move interstate drugs with Merlino at the top

[B.]

South Jersey has traditionally been their territory for decades and, according to the indictment, they were working to regain control of things in Atlantic City. If that's the case with things in their own backyard, what's the likelihood of them of them having a standing crew in New England?

I agree with this, which is why they would have to make an effort to re-establish operations in Boston. I imagine it would be much more difficult than AC, but at least the confirmed made Philly member in Boston is keeping the channel open.

A Bonanno member going to Sicily to ask the Castellammare boss for a favor is more believable than Philadelphia trying to re-build their New England crew?

Yes.

Glad to see you've come around on this one. I remember you giving immense pushback years ago when that article came out saying NYC families were re-establishing their ties to Sicily. This was years before we had public info to substantiate it, but I'm glad to see that you've changed your tune. I mean that sincerely, as I appreciate that you opened your mind once the info came out substantiating modern NYC->Sicily connections.

[B.]

Bobby Luisi says here that he believes the Philly Boston members are "more powerful" than the Patriarcas "still to this day".

Linked to the exact moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1578&v= ... e=youtu.be

This is a pretty heavy-duty statement. I have no opinion on it, someone sent it to me in a PM in response to this topic, but Luisi's opinion is obviously part of this conversation even if it's biased.

He also says something about making guys in Boston while he was "away", so he's saying more Boston-Philly members were inducted while he was in prison? Has that come out elsewhere?

Edit: He also says about his old crew, "there's still plenty of them up there."

[Pogo The Clown]

How would Luisi know about guys getting made after he flipped? Either way I highly doubt it considering all of the official info that has come out in the decade after he flipped contradicts this claim.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Street gangs, Prison gangs and MC's and plenty other OC groups operate outside traditional base today with impunity , In MY opinion.....with no proof just intuition , I suspect there is more drug dealing going on in the Philly family then they are getting hemmed up with, There is just to much money on the east coast to not get involved and not enough traditional rackets,They have been know to move interstate drugs with Merlino at the top

You can look at the past 20 years. The few remaining families having activity outside their territory is almost non-existent. Forget having a standing crew somewhere else.

Philly is involved in drugs but they're still small time. Like we've seen with New England, they're mainly a gambling organization that supplements things with drug trafficking.

Glad to see you've come around on this one. I remember you giving immense pushback years ago when that article came out saying NYC families were re-establishing their ties to Sicily. This was years before we had public info to substantiate it, but I'm glad to see that you've changed your tune. I mean that sincerely, as I appreciate that you opened your mind once the info came out substantiating modern NYC->Sicily connections.

Mmm...I wouldn't go too far with that. You were making a comparison and, comparably speaking, I find a lot of things more believable than Philly having a crew in New England today. Also, if I remember correctly, I was skeptical of what some believed those re-established connections would lead to.

Bobby Luisi says here that he believes the Philly Boston members are "more powerful" than the Patriarcas "still to this day".

Linked to the exact moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1578&v= ... e=youtu.be

This is a pretty heavy-duty statement. I have no opinion on it, someone sent it to me in a PM in response to this topic, but Luisi's opinion is obviously part of this conversation even if it's biased.

He also says something about making guys in Boston while he was "away", so he's saying more Boston-Philly members were inducted while he was in prison? Has that come out elsewhere?

Edit: He also says about his old crew, "there's still plenty of them up there."

Luisi also once thought he was going to establish his own family too. And his old crew has been pretty quiet the past 20 years.