Ozgoz wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:11 pm
This thread is like when you know a lot about a subject and you go to a party and some schmuk is going on and on and on and on waffling away stating every myth as fact and you just have to stand, nod, and take it as you plan an exit strategy.
I don't know if this guy is trolling or if he actually believes this stuff. It's like he knows just enough about organized crime to make up stories that would sound believable to someone who doesn't know anything about the mob.
I am not trolling and i am not making up stories. I just want to discuss about organized crime and gangs. That is why i joined this forum.
Lack of indictments and dedicated law enforcement resources is a direct correlation to a general lack of activity. Whether that’s LA, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. In today’s world of advanced technology, endless informants, and lack of sustainable criminal activities it’s naive to think there could be a organized systematic group of individuals doing something in a major city without law enforcement knowledge. Big or small. There’s a lot of well informed and researched members on the forum. You are merely to ask the question, but be open to an answer you may not like. For example nothing formal and structured is in LA to make it viable LCN. There are facts (FBI/LE documents) and sources (former associates/members) who have stated as much. If you choose to not accept those then that’s your choice. “I choose to believe” (you stated this). Long story short be open. Stick to the facts. Cite reliable sources (not Reddit). Understand you won’t always agree. Recognize there are others who know more than you on a topic. I’m not one of them; but I can give you some names who are. Enjoy yourself.
Nick Prango wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:01 amWhile it’s true the LCN in the U.S. isn’t what it once was at the peak of its power it’s still a viable and profitable criminal enterprise that has proven to be very resilient. The Mafia continues to make millions and millions of dollars from not only traditional mob rackets but new and innovative schemes. There have been numerous reports of the Mob’s demise over the last decade or so but families in and outside of New York remain.
While the above is true - if we are talking about New York, as well as a handful of small families elsewhere (namely New Jersey, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago), you would do better to get your info (copied and pasted) from sources other than some blog entitled "About the Mafia" like above.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:55 am
Welcome back Maxiepad.
Pogo
Oh great.
LCN will always exist & thrive in NYC. Something like 11% of the overall population is Italian (which is absolutely mind boggling), and there’s still healthy Italian immigration to the burroughs & to a lesser extent the surrounding suburbs. There are still tons of young guys looking to get stripes & engage in street violence
If there’s one family that appears to be primarily senior businessmen now, it’s Chicago. Even some of the guys that have gotten made into the Outfit over the past two decades, like Steve Panzarella, have been businessmen rather than street guys. I personally believe otherwise, that the Outfit have a good amount of young talent & that there is still violence taking place (the Feds there are just too consumed with the gang violence to keep tabs on the Outfit), but if we are going solely off of arrests & indictments over the past two decades, NYC is (and has always been) way more heavy handed & astronomically more active than Chicago. A made guy hasn’t gotten knocked down in Chicago since 2006 (Little Tony Zizzo) NYC families are much, much more violent & heavy handed than Chicago over the past 20 years, if we’re going off of busts & indictments. Quite literally, the only two cases of Outfit violence over the past two decades were the Carparelli & Panozzo indictments, and the Panozzo thing was more armed robberies than actual violence. There has been much more action in NY/NJ, even Philly. Heck, just a couple years ago, the Luccheses were chasing people over state lines trying to kill them.
Please do enlighten us as to how you seem to know for a fact that Panzarella is a made guy? While you're at it, fill us in on the names and "street guy" status (or lack thereof) of the other guys Chicago has made in the past 20 years. I suppose Fat Mike told you before he got locked up? You'd be doing us Chicago posters a huge service as we're pretty much in the dark on these matters.
I have read on Reddit that he was allegedly made by Sarno before he went to jail.
This guy BokaBreeze posts interesting stuff about the Outfit.
People post all sorts of cool stories on the internet buddy. When you see stuff like that, you gotta ask yourself -- how likely is it that an anon rando on Reddit actually knows who's been inducted in a secret society? I mean, the only made guy from Chicago to ever testify didn't even know who the majority of made guys in his own organization were.
Keep in mind too that you've now accessed a wealth of info on LCN that is far more rigorous than most of what you'll find elsewhere. Almost any question you wanna ask has been asked already. Spend some time reading here first, you'll get a feel for how people are approaching some of these same problems and learn a lot along the way.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Nick Prango wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:21 pmWhat is your opinion on Detroit crime family. IMO the Detroit Partnership has proven itself to be a very stable and resilient crime family considering what most other Cosa Nostra families deal with in the way of internal strife and law enforcement scrutiny. The fact you don't hear about Detroit crime family shows their strength. In fact, they probably are the most sophisticated and "white collar" of any family in the country. The Detroit Family has always been lowkey. While the feds have always aggressively gone after the Chicago, Philly and New York families, Detroit has always been around in the shadows. Keeping a low profile. Old school. Hardly any rats either. They ain’t going anywhere. They have the strongest code of silence and have legitimized their children. They adapted. Since the beginning of the Detroit L.C.N they have invested and purchased legitimate business . That is the smart way to go . They are far more insular than many families other than the Genovese and Rizzuto families. They have had the least amount of informants from inside of their family and they carried on pretty successfully after the Gamtax case and among other indictments. DETROIT Partnership doesn’t have many mob style killing or indictments because a lot of the marriages are “in house.” Made guys nephews marrying made guys nieces and so on.
Since you've likely been on this forum before (and I'm not just saying that because Pogo pointed it out), I imagine you know my opinion on Detroit. It's no secret.
Nick Prango wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:33 pm
This guy BokaBreeze posts interesting stuff about the Outfit.
Ive seen the pics he posts and they are very interesting, but the guy makes very bold claims about the state of the outfit with no real proof. The truth is the outfit is dying with only maybe 20ish members left and it will be defunct in the next 15-20 years.
Philly d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:13 pm
Suprised that the OUtfit is almost dead. Chicago has a ton of italians an it's the 3 largest city in America.
New England also has a ton of Italians and look at the state of their "outfit". For Chicago, they were hit very hard by a series of important Federal indictments in the 80s and 90s that did serious damage to their viability. Critically, their control over Chicago and Cook County government and courts was broken up. This meant that they could no longer kill and terrorize at will and thus could no longer exact street taxes or put the fear of God into deadbeats or potential rats in the same way. And after Family Secrets, no one wants to die like Joey Lombardo in the freaking Florence Supermax. This, coupled with broader demographic and cultural changes that undermined traditional rackets and the cohesive Italian communities that the Outfit thrived in for decades, has contributed greatly to their decline in my opinion.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Philly d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:13 pm
Suprised that the OUtfit is almost dead. Chicago has a ton of italians an it's the 3 largest city in America.
New England also has a ton of Italians and look at the state of their "outfit". For Chicago, they were hit very hard by a series of important Federal indictments in the 80s and 90s that did serious damage to their viability. Critically, their control over Chicago and Cook County government and courts was broken up. This meant that they could no longer kill and terrorize at will and thus could no longer exact street taxes or put the fear of God into deadbeats or potential rats in the same way. And after Family Secrets, no one wants to die like Joey Lombardo in the freaking Florence Supermax. This, coupled with broader demographic and cultural changes that undermined traditional rackets and the cohesive Italian communities that the Outfit thrived in for decades, has contributed greatly to their decline in my opinion.
Well said. At the end of the day there’s not many guys in today’s world that are willing to sign up for a possible mediocre to good 2-5 year run with a 20 plus prison stint at the finish line. The ones that are have nothing else they can do to be gainfully employed.
dack2001 wrote:Being a member is not a RICO predicate. Predicates are separate criminal actions. Being a member has been specifically found to not be a criminal act.
This.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Really? To me this maybe works if you are 80 and inactive.....
Let's say you show up at a party, and " business" comes up, say a murder..... say a guy is wired.....
If you can be proven to be an active member of the crew, they cant tie you to it? The whole ENTERPRISE, not that specific act, I mean? Real question here......
That Bonnano Xmas party didnt hurt them in court?
I thought this was a big part of keeping the mob in Sicily down.. everytime they meet it's a mafia association charge......
Nick Prango wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:21 pmWhat is your opinion on Detroit crime family. IMO the Detroit Partnership has proven itself to be a very stable and resilient crime family considering what most other Cosa Nostra families deal with in the way of internal strife and law enforcement scrutiny. The fact you don't hear about Detroit crime family shows their strength. In fact, they probably are the most sophisticated and "white collar" of any family in the country. The Detroit Family has always been lowkey. While the feds have always aggressively gone after the Chicago, Philly and New York families, Detroit has always been around in the shadows. Keeping a low profile. Old school. Hardly any rats either. They ain’t going anywhere. They have the strongest code of silence and have legitimized their children. They adapted. Since the beginning of the Detroit L.C.N they have invested and purchased legitimate business . That is the smart way to go . They are far more insular than many families other than the Genovese and Rizzuto families. They have had the least amount of informants from inside of their family and they carried on pretty successfully after the Gamtax case and among other indictments. DETROIT Partnership doesn’t have many mob style killing or indictments because a lot of the marriages are “in house.” Made guys nephews marrying made guys nieces and so on.
Since you've likely been on this forum before (and I'm not just saying that because Pogo pointed it out), I imagine you know my opinion on Detroit. It's no secret.
I have never been on this forum. I am new on this forum. I am not even from the USA. I am a 38year old Macedonian from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Macedonia. I am just a Mafia enthusiast. I read alot about organized crime alot online. In my country you just have to fight, even if someone just verbally insults you. Here in my country is unthinkable to be slapped by another man, and don't fight him. Even if you loose the fight. You must fight back. I guess we (people from the Balkans) are more violent than average Americans. If you don't fight back, you are not considered a man.When i was younger i fought alot on a daily basis on the streets, i even stabbed a guy in his chest and stomach. He was in critical condition, but thank god he lived. So i understand violence and maybe that is why as long as i remember i am fascinated with films and television shows about the Mafia. The Sopranos is clearly, unequivocally my number one tv show. I’ve never and will never see a better show than The Sopranos. I love Goodfellas and Casino. So that is why i joined this forum. I am new here.
To give you a graphic analogy, Maxie is like herpes. He shows up, causes problems, then leaves after being given the medicine. Regardless of how long he lays dormant you know he’s always coming back and there’s zero chance of getting rid of him, and easy to spot.
NothingNew44 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:18 am
To give you a graphic analogy, Maxie is like herpes. He shows up, causes problems, then leaves after being given the medicine. Regardless of how long he lays dormant you know he’s always coming back and there’s zero chance of getting rid of him, and easy to spot.
I am not that guy, and i don't want to cause problems. I joined this forum,because i want to discuss about the Italian mafia,organized crime and gangs.
dack2001 wrote:Being a member is not a RICO predicate. Predicates are separate criminal actions. Being a member has been specifically found to not be a criminal act.
This.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Really? To me this maybe works if you are 80 and inactive.....
Let's say you show up at a party, and " business" comes up, say a murder..... say a guy is wired.....
If you can be proven to be an active member of the crew, they cant tie you to it? The whole ENTERPRISE, not that specific act, I mean? Real question here......
That Bonnano Xmas party didnt hurt them in court?
I thought this was a big part of keeping the mob in Sicily down.. everytime they meet it's a mafia association charge......
Predicate acts are essentially chargeable crimes (mail/wire fraud, murder, gambling, conspiracy, etc.); however, in RICO cases, don’t have to be charged separately. The predicates have to be “to further the purpose of the enterprise.”
Instead of proving the crimes “beyond a reasonable doubt, if charged separately, predicate acts only have to be proven by a “preponderance of the evidence” - a lesser burden then “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
