Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

[Pmac2]

I guess we can only speculate. I swore those when vincent Esposito was indicted the other 2 guys they said were la cosa nostra soldiers. And the feds know that he was there capo but for some weird reason they put hes a associate in the paper work. I think they made papa smurf when he got out from the last bid. It also easier for the family to keep closer eyes on his racket. He was basically the equivalent of jimmy brown in the gambinos and avelllino in the luchese. Except that guy allie shades caught the brunt of the first indictment

[Wiseguy]

I guess we can only speculate. I swore those when vincent Esposito was indicted the other 2 guys they said were la cosa nostra soldiers. And the feds know that he was there capo but for some weird reason they put hes a associate in the paper work. I think they made papa smurf when he got out from the last bid. It also easier for the family to keep closer eyes on his racket. He was basically the equivalent of jimmy brown in the gambinos and avelllino in the luchese. Except that guy allie shades caught the brunt of the first indictment

Arena and Giovinco were identified as soldiers. Esposito a "high-ranking and influential member" based on him managing a family slush fund and being in possession of member lists. He was never identified as a captain.

Allie Shades was a made guy and captain, and therefore the equivalent of Failla or Avellino. Not Franco. You'll probably have less occasion for confusion if you don't resort to speculation when there are facts available.

[TommyGambino]

They would have made him donkeys years ago if that was the case, maybe he didn't want it, who knows.

[SonnyBlackstein]

It’s a good guess he turned it down.

A guy that age, kicking up god knows, with that influence in the industry? He wants his button he’s getting it.

Guy got to die in his own bed because he turned it down. A made guy, likely Capo with his resume and $$, would got a ten year bid in ‘15.
An associate? One and change...

Smart golden goose

[West Coast1]

There are many guys who got rich as associates...
they could never be made because of nationality etc. it was a blessing to them and the families as well
some of them are the most important ones. They were still family, they were trusted and could be trusted.
Mostly childhood friends, the only people you can trust
now neighborhoods and family structure is falling apart
bye bye
it's over

[Rocco]

There are many guys who got rich as associates...
they could never be made because of nationality etc. it was a blessing to them and the families as well
some of them are the most important ones. They were still family, they were trusted and could be trusted.
Mostly childhood friends, the only people you can trust
now neighborhoods and family structure is falling apart
bye bye
it's over

You actually have a better chance of getting rich and staying out of jail if your NOT made. I think they right way to look at this is that Franco's long term business partner in carting was the Genovese Family...

[Pogo The Clown]

Or maybe they didn't want to make him. If he was made it could limit the amount of money they could get from him.


Pogo

[West Coast1]

possibly, but with no record and not being made and loyal as fuck those are the best people for both worlds.

rocco- that's a great business deal

[Pmac2]

the guy sal profaci was famously recorded saying to his lawyer friend about papa smur wiseguys dont sue wisegusy, wiseguys kill wiseguys. so he was acknoowledging smurf was somebody. didnt the westside win the sitdown to

[West Coast1]

or that he was def with somebody huge

[Rocco]

the guy sal profaci was famously recorded saying to his lawyer friend about papa smur wiseguys dont sue wisegusy, wiseguys kill wiseguys. so he was acknoowledging smurf was somebody. didnt the westside win the sitdown to

Yes they did. Carmine was a huge money maker and more importantly had the greatest influence over carting in NJ wiseguy or not. So if the Genovese didn't claim him the Gambinos(who at one time were big into carting in NJ in the 70s and 80s) would have claimed him. LCN was just part of that industry when Carmine was coming up. So you had to be with someone.