Gambino 1980 Hierarchy

[CabriniGreen]

I was just going off Scars saying Ciccone had been a captain for over 20 years when he flipped. My thinking is Scotto was in prison until '84, Ciccone was put in around 1980 and thanks to Pogo's info from Gravano's book which I forgot about Gotti made it official and demoted Scotto in 1986.

That was one of the things DiLeonardo confirmed when I asked- Ciccone replacing Scotto.

---- (Below isn't in response to you JohnnyS but just in general, my own thoughts)----

I think of it, from an outsider perspective, like watching the Sopranos and following the Barese crew when Albert replaces Larry (for a time.) It's not specified that Albert was acting, in S4 Tony says "you guys got the top tier positions." I imagine in real life if you're not part of that crew or specifically ask, you're not going to know the full details unless you're in a high enough position that its something you deal with.

I imagine if one of us became a member and we're in a Brooklyn crew and we inquired about Joe Bronx Gambino and asked specifics like when did he become a captain? How many members does he have under them? Who did he take over from? I imagine those around us would look at the person asking and wonder why does this person care? And then imagine if next week JG Bronx gets arrested and people are wondering what happened and if came back "well so and so was asking all of these questions last week." The suspicion would fall on the person asking. In the mob I think you find out info by being around it rather than asking questions which could be potentially dangerous. Remember Joe Pistone used to wander away when guys would start whispering until they told him to stay.

That's not just the mob.... that just the streets period...

[Angelo Santino]

I was just going off Scars saying Ciccone had been a captain for over 20 years when he flipped. My thinking is Scotto was in prison until '84, Ciccone was put in around 1980 and thanks to Pogo's info from Gravano's book which I forgot about Gotti made it official and demoted Scotto in 1986.

That was one of the things DiLeonardo confirmed when I asked- Ciccone replacing Scotto.

---- (Below isn't in response to you JohnnyS but just in general, my own thoughts)----

I think of it, from an outsider perspective, like watching the Sopranos and following the Barese crew when Albert replaces Larry (for a time.) It's not specified that Albert was acting, in S4 Tony says "you guys got the top tier positions." I imagine in real life if you're not part of that crew or specifically ask, you're not going to know the full details unless you're in a high enough position that its something you deal with.

I imagine if one of us became a member and we're in a Brooklyn crew and we inquired about Joe Bronx Gambino and asked specifics like when did he become a captain? How many members does he have under them? Who did he take over from? I imagine those around us would look at the person asking and wonder why does this person care? And then imagine if next week JG Bronx gets arrested and people are wondering what happened and if came back "well so and so was asking all of these questions last week." The suspicion would fall on the person asking. In the mob I think you find out info by being around it rather than asking questions which could be potentially dangerous. Remember Joe Pistone used to wander away when guys would start whispering until they told him to stay.

That's not just the mob.... that just the streets period...

And life in general. I'm in my early 30's and I have a hard time remembering specific years and dates from 10-20 years ago. So when we have someone twice or 3 times that like Joe Bonanno recollecting things from 1930 in 1980 I'm forgiving. Human error is a major factor in the human experience. And in the scope of the streets or organized crime people aren't entering/joining/affiliating with a historian cap on. And unless your Joe Pistone or the Jack Garcia you're not going to be focused on full names, dates, events that we as researchers and historians use as a measuring tool to gauge accuracy.

Interviewing people, especially senior citizens, is an art form. They are not always going to know or remember something on its face, you kinda have to go through the back door so to speak. "Do you remember anyone who lived on Marcy Ave?" - "No, I don't know that area." - "Did you know so and so?" - "Come to think of it, yes, he came from Williamsburg, from... Marcy Ave." That's how the human brain works. When I was talking with people in the early 2000's the conversations regarding Luciano and the Unione Siciliana were interesting. No one in NYC recalled anything like the Unione and phone books from those years didn't have a listing. (Remember back then it was still up for debate as to whether or not a branch existed in NYC, some researchers were adamant that it did, there were 60 dead bodies found under Lupo's Unione headquarters, Maranzano was killed in his Unione office, etc.) But many will talk about Luciano and the Sicilian Vespers story as if it really happened. It's always interesting to get a street/personal take and then compare it with external resources. It gives people a much broader understanding.

[CabriniGreen]

I was just going off Scars saying Ciccone had been a captain for over 20 years when he flipped. My thinking is Scotto was in prison until '84, Ciccone was put in around 1980 and thanks to Pogo's info from Gravano's book which I forgot about Gotti made it official and demoted Scotto in 1986.

That was one of the things DiLeonardo confirmed when I asked- Ciccone replacing Scotto.

---- (Below isn't in response to you JohnnyS but just in general, my own thoughts)----

I think of it, from an outsider perspective, like watching the Sopranos and following the Barese crew when Albert replaces Larry (for a time.) It's not specified that Albert was acting, in S4 Tony says "you guys got the top tier positions." I imagine in real life if you're not part of that crew or specifically ask, you're not going to know the full details unless you're in a high enough position that its something you deal with.

I imagine if one of us became a member and we're in a Brooklyn crew and we inquired about Joe Bronx Gambino and asked specifics like when did he become a captain? How many members does he have under them? Who did he take over from? I imagine those around us would look at the person asking and wonder why does this person care? And then imagine if next week JG Bronx gets arrested and people are wondering what happened and if came back "well so and so was asking all of these questions last week." The suspicion would fall on the person asking. In the mob I think you find out info by being around it rather than asking questions which could be potentially dangerous. Remember Joe Pistone used to wander away when guys would start whispering until they told him to stay.

That's not just the mob.... that just the streets period...

And life in general. I'm in my early 30's and I have a hard time remembering specific years and dates from 10-20 years ago. So when we have someone twice or 3 times that like Joe Bonanno recollecting things from 1930 in 1980 I'm forgiving. Human error is a major factor in the human experience. And in the scope of the streets or organized crime people aren't entering/joining/affiliating with a historian cap on. And unless your Joe Pistone or the Jack Garcia you're not going to be focused on full names, dates, events that we as researchers and historians use as a measuring tool to gauge accuracy.

Yeah, I tend to give these guys the benefit of the doubt when remembering dates and names and things.....

It must actually be kinda hard to be a CI. Just to get guys to talk about WHAT you want, WHEN you want them to.

[B.]

Great chart, HK.

Jimmy Cirillo in the Traina crew is the same as Vincent "Jimmy" Sarullo. His name gets written phonetically as "Cirillo" because it sounds similar. Sarullo was a good friend of the DeCavalcante members on Staten Island and his parents were from Ribera like many NJ DeCavalcantes. He was one of the first people to hear the rumor of John D'Amato's gay behavior.

Joe Ox Marino was with the Traina crew also. Did he switch?

The FNU Ingrassia in the Garofalo crew is Giuseppe Ingrassia. He's been mentioned by both Gravano and DiLeonardo. Ingrassia's nephew was also a member of the Sicilian mafia who later fled to the US and was under the Gambino family, same decina.

[HairyKnuckles]

Great chart, HK.

Jimmy Cirillo in the Traina crew is the same as Vincent "Jimmy" Sarullo. His name gets written phonetically as "Cirillo" because it sounds similar. Sarullo was a good friend of the DeCavalcante members on Staten Island and his parents were from Ribera like many NJ DeCavalcantes. He was one of the first people to hear the rumor of John D'Amato's gay behavior.

Joe Ox Marino was with the Traina crew also. Did he switch?

The FNU Ingrassia in the Garofalo crew is Giuseppe Ingrassia. He's been mentioned by both Gravano and DiLeonardo. Ingrassia's nephew was also a member of the Sicilian mafia who later fled to the US and was under the Gambino family, same decina.

Thanks for clearing that up. I´m sure CC will edit the chart.

Regarding Ingrassia, is it this guy or was he a younger guy?

Name: Giuseppe Ingrassia
State of Issue: New York
Date of Birth: Sunday March 08, 1891
Date of Death: Saturday August 06, 1988
Est. Age at Death: 97 years, 4 months, 29 days
Last known residence:
City: Rosedale; Jamaica
County: Queens
State: New York
ZIP Code: 11422

Maybe bronx can answer?

Joe the Ox Marino was with Failla at the time (1980) but was moved to be under Traina later on.

[B.]

Not sure his age but that guy seems too old. I don't think he lived in Queens either, as he was a Brooklyn guy.

Joe Ingrassia was still alive at the time of the 1982 Frank Fiala murder as his store in Bensonhurst is mentioned by Gravano. DiLeonardo was aware of Ingrassia's membership, so could point to him still being alive in the late 1980s.

There was a different man named Ingrassia from Brooklyn on the same ship as Jimmy DiLeonardo during one of his visits to Sicily. I wonder if that's a coincidence or it was an early relative of Joe Ingrassia, given Ingrassia and DiLeonardo were part of the same Brooklyn crew.

[sdeitche]

The SIlesi crew were all Florida-based. Interestingly by 1990, Vincent Amato was considered, by the FDLE and FBI, part of the Trafficante Miami faction, under Steve Raffa. In fact, on the FBI Dead List, Vincent is listed as "LCN - Tampa".

Part of it may be that by the late 80s most of the crew were deceased. (Vincent himself died in 1991). The other is that the ties between Santo Trafficante Jr and the Amatos dates back to the early 60s.

SILESI - (1896 - 1987)
AGOSTINO "AUGIE" AMATO (1901- 1980)
FRANK PAUL AMATO (1930 - 1988)
VINCENT AMATO (1927 - 1991)
JOSEPH "JOE SCOOCH" INDELICATO (1910 - 1988)
VINCENT "JIMMY DEE" PALMISANO (1914 - 1999)

[B.]

The Amatos were also from Alessandria della Rocca like many of the Tampa members. The Arcuris probably fit into that relationship too.

[bronx]

Hairy great info.. his daughter married first cousin who was a scarpatti "run away from sicily" ignazio ..who was later made in damico's crew then deported. joe oxie i dont believe was with brown, but im not sure.he was very close to the arcuri's.. gravano can be wrong on some things in his book,also he didnt write ,misinfo is not new to books. i did not read gravano's book, does he list every catpain in the family that there?

[B.]

The SIlesi crew were all Florida-based. Interestingly by 1990, Vincent Amato was considered, by the FDLE and FBI, part of the Trafficante Miami faction, under Steve Raffa. In fact, on the FBI Dead List, Vincent is listed as "LCN - Tampa".

Part of it may be that by the late 80s most of the crew were deceased. (Vincent himself died in 1991). The other is that the ties between Santo Trafficante Jr and the Amatos dates back to the early 60s.

SILESI - (1896 - 1987)
AGOSTINO "AUGIE" AMATO (1901- 1980)
FRANK PAUL AMATO (1930 - 1988)
VINCENT AMATO (1927 - 1991)
JOSEPH "JOE SCOOCH" INDELICATO (1910 - 1988)
VINCENT "JIMMY DEE" PALMISANO (1914 - 1999)

This list got me thinking.

- Joe Indelicato's family was from Sciacca, Agrigento.

- The Amatos as mentioned were from ADR, same town as most of the Tampa family.

- The Falcones of the Buffalo family who moved to Florida were from Sciacca and allegedly relatives of Joe Indelicato.

- The Gambino Arcuris from ADR were a longtime bridge to the Tampa family.

- At one time the Bonanno family had their Florida operations under Sabella, Giaccone, and Indelicato. All three men had heritage from Sciacca.

- Buffalo bosses Joe Todaro Sr. and Jr., heritage from Montallegro, own hotel in Florida and begin ruling the Buffalo family from Florida in the 1980s.

- Near the Todaro hotel is a home owned by the Bonanno Arcuris from Cattolica Eraclea.

- The DeCavalcantes maintained ties to Tampa through shared Agrigento heritage in the 1990s.

Some of it is probably coincidence and cherry picking, but there is a common theme of members of Agrigento heritage having a presence or history with Florida. Maybe some echo of the earlier Agrigento network that was national in scope.

--

Any idea where Silesi and Palmisano's families came from?

[HairyKnuckles]

CC, I took the liberty to edit Salvatore Spatola´s YOB. I haven´t found a YOB for him.

[HairyKnuckles]

Hairy great info.. his daughter married first cousin who was a scarpatti "run away from sicily" ignazio ..who was later made in damico's crew then deported. joe oxie i dont believe was with brown, but im not sure.he was very close to the arcuri's.. gravano can be wrong on some things in his book,also he didnt write ,misinfo is not new to books. i did not read gravano's book, does he list every catpain in the family that there?

Do you mean Ingrassia´s daughter?

No, Gravano does not list every captain.

[bronx]

Yes..he also has two sons angelo and tony, who were put with traina before the father died, the father thought they could get made faster ,but the opposite happened.never did

[Angelo Santino]

CC, I took the liberty to edit Salvatore Spatola´s YOB. I haven´t found a YOB for him.

Of course. You did all the legwork. Glad you can edit it and if you need to do so more in the future, please do.

Yes..he also has two sons angelo and tony, who were put with traina before the father died, the father thought they could get made faster ,but the opposite happened.never did

Interesting how some get in and others don't. It seems to really be luck of the draw depending on who's holds what at any given time. I don't know if they were Belmontesi but Traina headed up that faction from his father and the first Belmontesi in the Gams that I ID's was Giamlombardo if memory serves in the early 1900's. Again, very good stuff!

[B.]

Ignazio Ingrassia is from Monreale but was made a man of honor in Ciaculli, then transferred to the Gambinos before his arrest.

Ignazio's father Andrea Ingrassia was also a man of honor in Sicily. Not sure what the exact relationship was between Joe Ingrassia and Andrea Ingrassia, but seems either brothers or cousins as Andrea's son Ignazio is def a younger relative of Joe.