Jewish Outfit Informer

[B.]

Awesome job, Ed. I have been eagerly awaiting this article and you nailed it. Glad we can finally put a name (and face) to this informant.

- While he wasn't a member, I find his descriptions of Chicago's set-up and relationships the most logical. He says that non-Italians can have high stature and hold leadership positions on an operational level, but cannot be formal members of the mafia organization nor attend formal events like inductions. That seems like a fair take when we look at the totality of info on Chicago.

- What has stood out about this informant is that he emphasizes how the non-Italians can be immensely influential, yet felt the need to hide the fact that he was non-Italian in order to maintain his stature with the Italians. This would make more sense if he was a made member who had faked his ethnicity in order to become inducted, but that doesn't seem to be the case. As a non-member, why would his non-Italian background hurt him in an organization that gives non-Italians such a high ceiling? Maybe the Italian leadership in Chicago reserved specific roles for certain ethnicities, even among non-members. Or maybe it was simply a matter of honesty: it may not have mattered on an organizational level that the non-member informant was non-Italian, but because he had lied about being Italian for so long it would have been insulting to his associates on a personal level. More likely a combination of factors.

- Interesting he has Angelica as a Genovese member given the Genovese family's ties to Texas and the Civello group. Was Angelica ever identified by other sources as a Genovese member?

- Valachi told the FBI the Augie Pisano murder came about because he initially refused to come in after Genovese became boss. He couldn't be killed for this, though, so instead Genovese set Pisano up by having Jerry Catena later arrange a golf meeting with Pisano and Tony Bender Strollo. Catena didn't show up, so Pisano complained to Genovese and Genovese used this as the justification to have him killed. Valachi said this was against "Cosa Nostra" rules but Genovese didn't care.

- Valachi said that Pisano was lured to his death by Frank Cucola, who called Pisano while he was at dinner with Tony Bender. Valachi said Cucola was a member of the Jimmy Alo crew and that he (Valachi) believed Pisano was killed by members of the Alo crew. Valachi learned that Strollo didn't know Pisano was going to be killed and was upset by it.

Anyway, another wonderful addition to Rap Trap and Chicago history.

[Villain]

He said non-Italians in Chicago can become bosses and give orders to made guys but he doesnt say on "operational level" but instead he simply says that they cannot become members of CN.

He even said that at the end of the induction ritual and oath swearing, the top non-Italian leaders joined the new member at the celebratory dinner and other member-informants later confirmed the same description. Just like one big happy family. For example, i wonder what was the occasion regarding the 1967 party which was attended by Alex, Aiuppa, Ortenzi, Rassano and Rizzo at Martin’s Restaurant on Roosevelt Road.

Maybe associates like John Drew or Louie Lederer were "operational" while Humphreys and Alex were high level members of ONLY the Chi Outfit, not the national CN organization and they werent able to overrule some made guy from a different family, obviously because they were non-Italians, but in Chicago they were able to ask for a made guy's life or to admonish him because he did something wrong.

As Ed already said, by the early 70s Alex wasnt "operational" at all...For example, can some "operational" guy convince the Outfits top boss to forbid selling narcotics and to go against the will of the underboss and several capos? I dont think so...

[Ed]

Another interesting thing to note is DeRoses statement regarding Marshall Caifano and Sam Battaglia being inducted "shortly after Giancana was brought into the 'the life.'"

I always thought that Battaglia was made before Giancana (possibly by Al Capone), according to some sources including a wiretapped convo between Battaglia and Humphreys...the Hump was in the Outfit before Giancana so I think he knew what was he talking about...

DeRose contradicted himself frequently in his debriefs. At one point, he does state (weakly) Battaglia was made by Capone but then later on, indicates more strongly that Battaglia was made after Giancana. I did the math and it seems unlikely to me that Capone would have made Battaglia given his birth year.

[Ed]

- What has stood out about this informant is that he emphasizes how the non-Italians can be immensely influential, yet felt the need to hide the fact that he was non-Italian in order to maintain his stature with the Italians. This would make more sense if he was a made member who had faked his ethnicity in order to become inducted, but that doesn't seem to be the case. As a non-member, why would his non-Italian background hurt him in an organization that gives non-Italians such a high ceiling? Maybe the Italian leadership in Chicago reserved specific roles for certain ethnicities, even among non-members. Or maybe it was simply a matter of honesty: it may not have mattered on an organizational level that the non-member informant was non-Italian, but because he had lied about being Italian for so long it would have been insulting to his associates on a personal level. More likely a combination of factors.

- Interesting he has Angelica as a Genovese member given the Genovese family's ties to Texas and the Civello group. Was Angelica ever identified by other sources as a Genovese member?

My guess is DeRose was assumed to be Italian by associates after he moved to Chicago and he never bothered to correct them. After a while, it became too awkward and embarrassing to correct anyone. Or he was partly Italian and just decided to de-emphasize his Jewish aspect for political reasons.

As for Angelica, the reports are annoyingly redacted in crucial spots so it's hard to follow certain passages and to get to the bottom of his crime family affiliation. At first blush, it would appear that Angelica was too young to be made in New York City because he was born in 1907 and left New York City in the mid-late 1920s. The 5 Families appear to have stopped making individuals after 1931ish and closed the books until the 1940s. He then moved around the United States, was imprisoned a couple of times and then settled in Texas. Why would Genovese induct Angelica in the 1940s if he lived in Houston? One possibility was Angelica moved around because he was setting drug connections on behalf of the Genovese.

I've never seen anyone else refer to Angelica as a Genovese. I think Bill Feather has him down as a Philly member.

[Villain]

My guess is DeRose was assumed to be Italian by associates after he moved to Chicago and he never bothered to correct them. After a while, it became too awkward and embarrassing to correct anyone. Or he was partly Italian and just decided to de-emphasize his Jewish aspect for political reasons.

In addition, there were also some made guys (usually old Capone members) who came under non-Italians or lived in non-Italian neighbourhoods and they changed their names and tried to reduce their CN contacts to a minimum.

[Villain]

Another interesting thing to note is DeRoses statement regarding Marshall Caifano and Sam Battaglia being inducted "shortly after Giancana was brought into the 'the life.'"

I always thought that Battaglia was made before Giancana (possibly by Al Capone), according to some sources including a wiretapped convo between Battaglia and Humphreys...the Hump was in the Outfit before Giancana so I think he knew what was he talking about...

DeRose contradicted himself frequently in his debriefs. At one point, he does state (weakly) Battaglia was made by Capone but then later on, indicates more strongly that Battaglia was made after Giancana. I did the math and it seems unlikely to me that Capone would have made Battaglia given his birth year.

Just as additional info, in 1931/32, Battaglia was 23/24 years old (Capone was made at the age of 27/28 and by 32 became official boss). Also in 1932 i think in court Battaglia was represented by Sidney Korshak and Eddie King, both rising Capone attorneys at the time.

[B.]

He said non-Italians in Chicago can become bosses and give orders to made guys but he doesnt say on "operational level" but instead he simply says that they cannot become members of CN.

He didn't use the literal phrase "operational level" but let's take a look at Ed's analysis of his info:

Non-Italian hoodlums enjoyed more power and prestige in Chicago than they did in most other Mafia crime families. Italians dominated the Outfit and had the final word, but other ethnic groups had high standing owing to their political and business connections. [56] [57]

According to DeRose, individuals like Murray Humphries and Gus Alex carried a "considerable amount of weight and influence," and in some cases, were "more powerful than the [Italian] bosses or lieutenants." (In the Outfit context, the term "bosses" often referred to individuals roughly equal to caporegimes.) Non-Italians could become "bosses" and give Italians orders, but they could never attain Outfit membership. The Italians respected them for their "specific specialty such as gambling, numbers, [and] financial matters," and regularly sought their advice. Humphries was the spokesman for the non-Italian bosses.

Alex, a Greek-American, was "high in status among the known Italian associates of Chicago's leaders of organized crime" and during the 1960s, controlled "gambling and vice in the Loop area of Chicago along with Frank Ferraro and Ralph Pierce."

Note the bolded parts. Political, business, gambling, numbers, financial, and vice are the keywords. Those refer to the operations.

Operational = Political, business, gambling, numbers, financial, and vice

Formal = Membership, attendance at ceremonies

DeRose says that non-Italians were excluded from the formal elements of the organization, but had virtually no ceiling when it came to the operations. I have no doubt the operational aspects of the organization were in many ways more important when it came to the nuts and bolts of Chicago and that this sometimes outweighed the formalities, but DeRose makes a clear distinction between membership and the operational power of non-Italians.

Is DeRose 100% right on this? I don't know, but his description actually complements all of our views to some degree and makes sense when we look at the overall history of Chicago.

He even said that at the end of the induction ritual and oath swearing, the top non-Italian leaders joined the new member at the celebratory dinner and other member-informants later confirmed the same description. Just like one big happy family. For example, i wonder what was the occasion regarding the 1967 party which was attended by Alex, Aiuppa, Ortenzi, Rassano and Rizzo at Martin’s Restaurant on Roosevelt Road.

I thought this was important, too. Only Italian made members could attend inductions, but it was hardly a secret to the non-Italians and they were allowed to participate in the social celebration afterward.

It's similar to how the DeCavalcantes (whose known inductions were virtually identical to the non-traditional ceremony described by DeRose) held a family Christmas party described by Sam DeCavalcante on his tapes. The early part of the party was members only, then non-member associates were invited for the later part of the party. The non-members would have known who the members were and why they weren't allowed to attend the early part of the party, so it was no secret. They were all part of the overall DeCavalcante organization, but a distinction was still made between formal members and associates. Given it's the DeCavalcantes, some of those associates were way more influential in rackets than the members, some of whom were non-criminal laborers. They weren't exactly like Chicago, but it's a relevant comparison.

Just for the induction party comparison, Peter Zuccaro described how the night Vincent Asaro was inducted in NYC a party was held at a local bar and attended by all kinds of people, including civilians from the neighborhood, to celebrate Asaro's induction. Similar accounts have come out about post-induction celebrations where non-members congratulated a new member. That's of course different from Chicago inviting important non-Italian figures to celebrate after a ceremony, but it's not fundamentally that different.

Also, I think we can infer from DeRose's information that he himself may have attended some of these post-induction celebrations even though he wasn't a member. He doesn't really clarify how exclusive these post-induction celebrations were, i.e. was it limited to people like Gus Alex and Murray Humphreys, or did it include all kinds of non-member associates? That's an important piece of info we're missing.

[Villain]

B, sorry if you previously received a msg from me since i pressed submit instead of preview and so i had to delete the msg.

He didn't use the literal phrase "operational level" but let's take a look at Ed's analysis of his info:

Non-Italian hoodlums enjoyed more power and prestige in Chicago than they did in most other Mafia crime families. Italians dominated the Outfit and had the final word, but other ethnic groups had high standing owing to their political and business connections. [56] [57]

According to DeRose, individuals like Murray Humphries and Gus Alex carried a "considerable amount of weight and influence," and in some cases, were "more powerful than the [Italian] bosses or lieutenants." (In the Outfit context, the term "bosses" often referred to individuals roughly equal to caporegimes.) Non-Italians could become "bosses" and give Italians orders, but they could never attain Outfit membership. The Italians respected them for their "specific specialty such as gambling, numbers, [and] financial matters," and regularly sought their advice. Humphries was the spokesman for the non-Italian bosses.

Alex, a Greek-American, was "high in status among the known Italian associates of Chicago's leaders of organized crime" and during the 1960s, controlled "gambling and vice in the Loop area of Chicago along with Frank Ferraro and Ralph Pierce."

Note the bolded parts. Political, business, gambling, numbers, financial, and vice are the keywords. Those refer to the operations.

Operational = Political, business, gambling, numbers, financial, and vice

Formal = Membership, attendance at ceremonies

DeRose says that non-Italians were excluded from the formal elements of the organization, but had virtually no ceiling when it came to the operations. I have no doubt the operational aspects of the organization were in many ways more important when it came to the nuts and bolts of Chicago and that this sometimes outweighed the formalities, but DeRose makes a clear distinction between membership and the operational power of non-Italians.

Is DeRose 100% right on this? I don't know, but his description actually complements all of our views to some degree and makes sense when we look at the overall history of Chicago.

He even said that at the end of the induction ritual and oath swearing, the top non-Italian leaders joined the new member at the celebratory dinner and other member-informants later confirmed the same description. Just like one big happy family. For example, i wonder what was the occasion regarding the 1967 party which was attended by Alex, Aiuppa, Ortenzi, Rassano and Rizzo at Martin’s Restaurant on Roosevelt Road.

I thought this was important, too. Only Italian made members could attend inductions, but it was hardly a secret to the non-Italians and they were allowed to participate in the social celebration afterward.

It's similar to how the DeCavalcantes (whose known inductions were virtually identical to the non-traditional ceremony described by DeRose) held a family Christmas party described by Sam DeCavalcante on his tapes. The early part of the party was members only, then non-member associates were invited for the later part of the party. The non-members would have known who the members were and why they weren't allowed to attend the early part of the party, so it was no secret. They were all part of the overall DeCavalcante organization, but a distinction was still made between formal members and associates. Given it's the DeCavalcantes, some of those associates were way more influential in rackets than the members, some of whom were non-criminal laborers. They weren't exactly like Chicago, but it's a relevant comparison.

Just for the induction party comparison, Peter Zuccaro described how the night Vincent Asaro was inducted in NYC a party was held at a local bar and attended by all kinds of people, including civilians from the neighborhood, to celebrate Asaro's induction. Similar accounts have come out about post-induction celebrations where non-members congratulated a new member. That's of course different from Chicago inviting important non-Italian figures to celebrate after a ceremony, but it's not fundamentally that different.

Also, I think we can infer from DeRose's information that he himself may have attended some of these post-induction celebrations even though he wasn't a member. He doesn't really clarify how exclusive these post-induction celebrations were, i.e. was it limited to people like Gus Alex and Murray Humphreys, or did it include all kinds of non-member associates? That's an important piece of info we're missing.

Nice points and i agree on most stuff, mainly because i think we only agree regarding certain time periods and we will get to that a little bit later....

Yes, the dominant culture in the Chicago Outfit were the Italians since they were the ones who organized all gangs under one rulership. Capone even advised Zerilli in Detroit to do the same thing. So the Italians were always the core or heart of the organization but because of the previous reason, they were like one organism placed in another. Antiliar once made one simple but very good drawing on how the inner workings went down and he placed both the made guys and top non-Italians in the same circle with the associates outside of the inner circle. Still by end of the day, the Italians made all final decisions, with previous advisement from the top non-Ital bosses.

As i already explained in one of my previous posts, there were many non-Ital guys who also had some type of respect but still i personally consider them associates. Faces like John Drew, Louis Lederer or even Hyman Larner and as a matter of fact, Larner fits perfectly in the operational image by having made guys under his "rule" regarding some specific operation.

Besides the Loop and Near South Side, Alex also controlled certain districts on the North Side and Cicero and he even had interests in Calumet City. According to numerous informants, everyone in the Outfit needed Alexs permission to operate in one of his areas. Caruso, a capo, answered and kicked up to Alex (from gambling, unions and prostitution) and if Alex was operational at the time, that was some quite operation with capos kicking up to him.

But lets say that by the mid 60s, Alex was mostly operational but what about his boss Humphreys?! Humphreys was one of the top three leaders who announced to Giancana that he was the new boss. There were also many other high level meetings on Humphreys was also present which sometimes even included bosses from other families. Humphreys himself was quite aware about the workings of the Commission and he even once said that certain matters should be taken to the big table.

Again, i agree that the Italians were the core of the organization but i want for you to look at this statement made during some hearings from the 1980s (i hope the pic is big enough to read it, if not ill try to take another one)...i think this is the best explanation given by the feds regarding the old days aka Torrio era and after that...



Another great example (i think from the same hearings) on how much the feds were confused back in the days regarding the status of some of the high level non-Italians like Les Kruse...



And another unique thing was the territorial boss...older capo above younger capo...














Sometime ago i talked to CC and i completely understand your theory guys, and thats one quite good definition regarding the distinction between a made guy and operational guy. For example heres two operational cases in Chicago...

One was John Drew...



And another one was Hy Larner with made guys beneath him regarding some specific ops....





But heres few more examples in which we can see more than operational influence presented by some top non-Italian guys like Humphreys and Alex....

Humphreys bashing high level member Joey Glimco...



Humphreys admonishing Roselli...



Alex/Alderiso



Alex/Caruso



Alex creating policy for the organization with Aiuppa and Accardo...





Also, if you take off the made status from one Italian associate, you will simply get an operational guy right?! Well, according to Antiliar's sources, Marco D'Amico was never made but he still held a high spot in the organization. Again, we are talking about Cosa Nostra here and the Outfits main core was always Italian but thanks to you, we also saw that the US CN also had a Americanized faction which in time completely took over some of the biggest cities. Capone was too much "Americanized" and we have to understand that his organization completely breached the CN limits, obviously for more money and power. They even intermarried with the non-Italians and acted like some royal families. Even today we can still see many products from those same actions made decades ago...

[Snakes]

Late to the party, but great article Ed. I think we had discussed this mysterious Jewish informer before but never really connected him to this particular informant.

Something else that I read in some files (and I may have missed it in your article -- lots of info!) was that this informant was present at a bar where several of the individuals who were made in 1956 showed up after the ceremony. This may have been where DeRose got some of the information about who was made that night.

[Ed]

Late to the party, but great article Ed. I think we had discussed this mysterious Jewish informer before but never really connected him to this particular informant.

Something else that I read in some files (and I may have missed it in your article -- lots of info!) was that this informant was present at a bar where several of the individuals who were made in 1956 showed up after the ceremony. This may have been where DeRose got some of the information about who was made that night.

I saw that report but I couldn't find any clues that definitively tied it to DeRose so I didn't include it in my article. But you're portably right, it sounds awful lot like DeRose and could explain how he knew what mobsters got inducted in 1956. As well, I think a lot of his Intel came from Carl Fiorito and Ralph Pierce.

Glad you liked the article!

[Snakes]

Late to the party, but great article Ed. I think we had discussed this mysterious Jewish informer before but never really connected him to this particular informant.

Something else that I read in some files (and I may have missed it in your article -- lots of info!) was that this informant was present at a bar where several of the individuals who were made in 1956 showed up after the ceremony. This may have been where DeRose got some of the information about who was made that night.

I saw that report but I couldn't find any clues that definitively tied it to DeRose so I didn't include it in my article. But you're portably right, it sounds awful lot like DeRose and could explain how he knew what mobsters got inducted in 1956. As well, I think a lot of his Intel came from Carl Fiorito and Ralph Pierce.

Glad you liked the article!

True; I would imagine that Ralph Pierce would be one of those invited to any post-ceremony celebration and would be privy to know.

[B.]

Villain -- thanks for sharing those excerpts and the thoughtful reply. That's an interesting question about Italian non-members. If a full-blooded Italian was highly influential on an operational level, you'd think they would consider him a candidate for membership. We know from other cities though that certain Italians could have all the qualifications of membership and seem like members, yet sometimes they weren't made for whatever reason. The info you've previously shared about Sam DeStefano brings that to mind, same with what you said about D'Amico. I get the impression Chicago was very selective about who they inducted.

I think the sum of info available on Chicago supports DeRose's take on certain aspects of Chicago. He was def not a top figure, but seems to have paid close attention to what he was told and observed over the years even if he crossed some wires and got some things wrong.

What do you guys think about his ~150 members estimate? He makes it clear this is in reference to made members of Italian descent and as Ed points out, he was one of the first sources to give the FBI solid info on who might be a member. I've always figured Chicago didn't need to induct as many members as say the Gambino or Genovese families because they weren't competing with any other families, so that ~150 estimate would put them slightly larger than Buffalo, the smaller NYC families, and Philadelphia which makes sense.

[Snakes]

Villain -- thanks for sharing those excerpts and the thoughtful reply. That's an interesting question about Italian non-members. If a full-blooded Italian was highly influential on an operational level, you'd think they would consider him a candidate for membership. We know from other cities though that certain Italians could have all the qualifications of membership and seem like members, yet sometimes they weren't made for whatever reason. The info you've previously shared about Sam DeStefano brings that to mind, same with what you said about D'Amico. I get the impression Chicago was very selective about who they inducted.

I think the sum of info available on Chicago supports DeRose's take on certain aspects of Chicago. He was def not a top figure, but seems to have paid close attention to what he was told and observed over the years even if he crossed some wires and got some things wrong.

What do you guys think about his ~150 members estimate? He makes it clear this is in reference to made members of Italian descent and as Ed points out, he was one of the first sources to give the FBI solid info on who might be a member. I've always figured Chicago didn't need to induct as many members as say the Gambino or Genovese families because they weren't competing with any other families, so that ~150 estimate would put them slightly larger than Buffalo, the smaller NYC families, and Philadelphia which makes sense.

It would be difficult to say unless we had a list of members to vet. There is a list on the MF site from 1967 that pulls intel from various confidential sources but uses only the arbitrary CG T-1, CG T-2, etc. designations (as opposed to CTE-"xxxx") so it is difficult to tell who exactly provided that information.

[PolackTony]

Villain -- thanks for sharing those excerpts and the thoughtful reply. That's an interesting question about Italian non-members. If a full-blooded Italian was highly influential on an operational level, you'd think they would consider him a candidate for membership. We know from other cities though that certain Italians could have all the qualifications of membership and seem like members, yet sometimes they weren't made for whatever reason. The info you've previously shared about Sam DeStefano brings that to mind, same with what you said about D'Amico. I get the impression Chicago was very selective about who they inducted.

I think the sum of info available on Chicago supports DeRose's take on certain aspects of Chicago. He was def not a top figure, but seems to have paid close attention to what he was told and observed over the years even if he crossed some wires and got some things wrong.

What do you guys think about his ~150 members estimate? He makes it clear this is in reference to made members of Italian descent and as Ed points out, he was one of the first sources to give the FBI solid info on who might be a member. I've always figured Chicago didn't need to induct as many members as say the Gambino or Genovese families because they weren't competing with any other families, so that ~150 estimate would put them slightly larger than Buffalo, the smaller NYC families, and Philadelphia which makes sense.

Another interesting point here is DeRose's contrast with what he calls the "button system" in NYC. The fact that DeRose seemed to underscore this as illustrative of NYC having more made members goes to further show that the role of inducted members in Chicago was different vis-a-vis the wider operations of the "syndicate". Much of the "soldier" level of the Outfit was composed of non-made "members" of Outfit crews, the majority or whom were of course Italian and in NYC would likely have been made soldiers. The general picture to me has always suggested that to be a made guy in Chicago was to enter the leadership strata of the Outfit. We also know that made guys were entitled to a percentage of the proceeds from their territory, so to be made was to take on a stakeholder status. My belief is that this points back to the particular ways that the Cosa Nostra model was adopted/adapted/co-opted by the Capone organization, which already had a system in place with a board of directors who were also stakeholders in the gang enterprise and with top level lieutenants in charge of specific territories and/or rackets. The LCN concept and structure then provided a way to formalize this leadership strata and likely to instill an "esprit de corps" for solidarity and control. Very speculative, but I also wonder if this adaption was a distant echo of some influence from the old Camorra in the Torrio/Capone gang, with two tiers or ranks of membership.

Apart from general attrition, changing demographics, and desire to avoid indictments this picture also I think goes to partly explain the apparent "failure" of the Outfit to induct new members in recent decades. In their greatly truncated and weakened form today, they really only need a small handful of made guys to form a skeleton crew of leadership, with most of the actual operations performed by non made "soldiers" and associates.

[PolackTony]

Correction, DeRose apparently used the term "soldier system" to describe NYC. This wording is even more telling I think, as it suggests that his understanding of Chicago was that the operational equivalent to a "soldier" in NYC wouldn't be am inducted role in Chicago.