Los Angeles odds & ends

[B.]

I've never found a Fratianno fan in all of these years. Fellow mafia members, informants, and observers like us do not have a high of him as a person. That said, Fratianno was a capodecina and acting underboss of the Los Angeles family who knew ranking members all over the US for thirty years. He spins stories in his favor and was manipulative, but he is also a resource who has given us a lot of valuable info in his book and testimony, some of which can be corroborated.

- Fortunately we have two contemporaries of Fratianno (Bompensiero and Piscopo) who were member informants in the LA family and they knew Fratianno well along with many of the same people. While there are some discrepancies, they also corroborate a lot of Fratianno's info on LA and other mafia families. CI Anthony Lima of the SF family also knew Fratianno while the two were in the Bay Area together.

- In the mid-late 1960s, Fratianno told Frank Bompensiero he arranged a transfer to Chicago through John Roselli with the approval of bosses Frank Desimone and Sam Giancana (transfer protocol required both of their approval). Fratianno also told the same basic story in his testimony and in his book. If Fratianno made the whole transfer story up, it remained consistent for twenty years whether he was telling fellow mafia members, the FBI, or the public via his book. If it was a lie, we have to appreciate that it was a consistent lie and not Ralph Natale level revisionism.

- Bompensiero also discussed it with LA boss Nick Licata. Licata was aware of Fratianno's transfer claim and did not recognize it. If Fratianno lied about the transfer (whether it was finalized or not), he did tell fellow members about it and tried to get his boss to honor it. Keep in mind Fratianno would have known the protocol, that Licata would reach out to Chicago, so if he made up the whole scenario, he would have known the story wouldn't check out. Why would he push Licata if that were the case, knowing the risk? He may have arranged the transfer between LA and Chicago, but the message wasn't communicated or changing leadership had no interest in accepting a figure like Fratianno.

- Many of Fratianno's more suspicious claims are self-serving, but the transfer scenario reflects poorly on Fratianno given the more powerful Chicago family was not interested in letting him join their family.

We can't know for sure what did or didn't happen between Fratianno, Roselli, Desimone, and Giancana. We do have other sources that confirm Fratianno was using the same story consistently for many years and insisted on its legitimacy to the post-Desimone and post-Giancana leadership, though Licata and the Chicago leaders refused to support Fratianno's claim. That much is true.

[Angelo Santino]

For what it's worth, Bill Roemer described Fratianno as a former Chicago soldier who never went beyond that rank who was "living in Chicago territory" under an assumed name, bitter about his life in the witness protection program. It's been more than a decade but I think this was in The Enforcer.

[Villain]

Who was his Chicago capo and what operation or district did he control for the Outfit? Did Fratianno had interests in any Chicago clubs or Outfit-connected joints from around the country? When Roselli transferred to the Outfit, besides Vegas, he also received few ops in Chicago, so i really wonder about Frattianos? Rosellis capo at the time was LaPorte, besides he being direct with Giancana, and LaPorte wasnt aware about Fratiannos transfer...so who was Frattianos capo? If he was direct with the boss, well Giancana was already out of the country....so who were Fratiannos Chi associates or crew members at the time? This is new for me and i really like to know

[Angelo Santino]

Who was his Chicago capo and what operation or district did he control for the Outfit? Did Fratianno had interests in any Chicago clubs or Outfit-connected joints from around the country? When Roselli transferred to the Outfit, besides Vegas, he also received few ops in Chicago, so i really wonder about Frattianos? Rosellis capo at the time was LaPorte, besides he being direct with Giancana, and LaPorte wasnt aware about Fratiannos transfer...so who was Frattianos capo? Giancana was out of the country....so who were Fratiannos Chi associates or crew members at the time? This is new for me and i really like to know

I'm paraphrasing from Roemer's book. You can look it up. I'm not arguing its accuracy.

In his own book, he doesn't state who was under. He does identify Frank la Porte as a Chicago caporegime he did business with and some assumed he was placed under him. He himself didn't specifically state this himself. Later on when he's approached about "taking over" LA for Brooklier he stated that he'd have to transfer back to LA.

Additionally, he didn't even lie about being Acting Underboss he just skirted the issue. Like if Soliai announced he's going out of town and B.'s going to admin and I'll be head of the mods. From my perspective, B.'s a do nothing whereas I got control of all the mods so you tell me who's running the forum? Well, formally it's still B., I can say and do whatever I want it doesn't make it so. Then SC emails Soliai about hearing from Chris his acting Mod and Solai's like WTF, I left B. in charge, fucking Chris misrepresented himself.

[Villain]

Who was his Chicago capo and what operation or district did he control for the Outfit? Did Fratianno had interests in any Chicago clubs or Outfit-connected joints from around the country? When Roselli transferred to the Outfit, besides Vegas, he also received few ops in Chicago, so i really wonder about Frattianos? Rosellis capo at the time was LaPorte, besides he being direct with Giancana, and LaPorte wasnt aware about Fratiannos transfer...so who was Frattianos capo? Giancana was out of the country....so who were Fratiannos Chi associates or crew members at the time? This is new for me and i really like to know

I'm paraphrasing from Roemer's book. You can look it up. I'm not arguing its accuracy.

In his own book, he doesn't state who was under. He does identify Frank la Porte as a Chicago caporegime he did business with and some assumed he was placed under him. He himself didn't specifically state this himself. Later on when he's approached about "taking over" LA for Brooklier he stated that he'd have to transfer back to LA.

Thanks. Well if LaPorte was his capo, he obviously wasnt aware about his new soldier, and niether were Ricca and Accardo and the rest of the organization, except for Roselli.

The whole situation stinks since Roselli also wanted to become the head of the LA fam but he received the middle finger from Ricca, same as the situation when he tried to extort Dalitz....these were the type of reasons for which guys like Giancana and Roselli were later killed

[Angelo Santino]

Who was his Chicago capo and what operation or district did he control for the Outfit? Did Fratianno had interests in any Chicago clubs or Outfit-connected joints from around the country? When Roselli transferred to the Outfit, besides Vegas, he also received few ops in Chicago, so i really wonder about Frattianos? Rosellis capo at the time was LaPorte, besides he being direct with Giancana, and LaPorte wasnt aware about Fratiannos transfer...so who was Frattianos capo? Giancana was out of the country....so who were Fratiannos Chi associates or crew members at the time? This is new for me and i really like to know

I'm paraphrasing from Roemer's book. You can look it up. I'm not arguing its accuracy.

In his own book, he doesn't state who was under. He does identify Frank la Porte as a Chicago caporegime he did business with and some assumed he was placed under him. He himself didn't specifically state this himself. Later on when he's approached about "taking over" LA for Brooklier he stated that he'd have to transfer back to LA.

Thanks. Well if LaPorte was his capo, he obviously wasnt aware about his new soldier, and niether were Ricca and Accardo and the rest of the organization, except for Roselli.

The whole situation stinks since Roselli also wanted to become the head of the LA fam but he received the middle finger from Ricca, same as the situation when he tried to extort Dalitz

He doesn't go into the functionality of the mob. He describes his position as capo as "taking care of a bunch of deadheads" when, if we're going by the NY model, should have been the other way around. Transferring to Chicago would have involved being placed with someone as well as an introduction "meet Weasel, friend of ours from LA, he's with us now" but that's not covered. I don't have the answers or the confidence to speculate.

[Villain]

Who was his Chicago capo and what operation or district did he control for the Outfit? Did Fratianno had interests in any Chicago clubs or Outfit-connected joints from around the country? When Roselli transferred to the Outfit, besides Vegas, he also received few ops in Chicago, so i really wonder about Frattianos? Rosellis capo at the time was LaPorte, besides he being direct with Giancana, and LaPorte wasnt aware about Fratiannos transfer...so who was Frattianos capo? Giancana was out of the country....so who were Fratiannos Chi associates or crew members at the time? This is new for me and i really like to know

I'm paraphrasing from Roemer's book. You can look it up. I'm not arguing its accuracy.

In his own book, he doesn't state who was under. He does identify Frank la Porte as a Chicago caporegime he did business with and some assumed he was placed under him. He himself didn't specifically state this himself. Later on when he's approached about "taking over" LA for Brooklier he stated that he'd have to transfer back to LA.

Thanks. Well if LaPorte was his capo, he obviously wasnt aware about his new soldier, and niether were Ricca and Accardo and the rest of the organization, except for Roselli.

The whole situation stinks since Roselli also wanted to become the head of the LA fam but he received the middle finger from Ricca, same as the situation when he tried to extort Dalitz

He doesn't go into the functionality of the mob. He describes his position as capo as "taking care of a bunch of deadheads" when, if we're going by the NY model, should have been the other way around. Transferring to Chicago would have involved being placed with someone as well as an introduction "meet Weasel, friend of ours from LA, he's with us now" but that's not covered. I don't have the answers or the confidence to speculate.

LaPorte became acting capo for Emery in 1953...thats before Giancanas reign as boss...when Emery died in 56 or 57, LaPorte became official. Thats the same time when Roselli transferred from LA and everyone in the Outfits organization knew about him and the whole transfer. In 1965 Giancana was out while LaPorte was still a capo and never knew that Frattiano used to be his soldier...

[Angelo Santino]

Who was his Chicago capo and what operation or district did he control for the Outfit? Did Fratianno had interests in any Chicago clubs or Outfit-connected joints from around the country? When Roselli transferred to the Outfit, besides Vegas, he also received few ops in Chicago, so i really wonder about Frattianos? Rosellis capo at the time was LaPorte, besides he being direct with Giancana, and LaPorte wasnt aware about Fratiannos transfer...so who was Frattianos capo? Giancana was out of the country....so who were Fratiannos Chi associates or crew members at the time? This is new for me and i really like to know

I'm paraphrasing from Roemer's book. You can look it up. I'm not arguing its accuracy.

In his own book, he doesn't state who was under. He does identify Frank la Porte as a Chicago caporegime he did business with and some assumed he was placed under him. He himself didn't specifically state this himself. Later on when he's approached about "taking over" LA for Brooklier he stated that he'd have to transfer back to LA.

Thanks. Well if LaPorte was his capo, he obviously wasnt aware about his new soldier, and niether were Ricca and Accardo and the rest of the organization, except for Roselli.

The whole situation stinks since Roselli also wanted to become the head of the LA fam but he received the middle finger from Ricca, same as the situation when he tried to extort Dalitz

He doesn't go into the functionality of the mob. He describes his position as capo as "taking care of a bunch of deadheads" when, if we're going by the NY model, should have been the other way around. Transferring to Chicago would have involved being placed with someone as well as an introduction "meet Weasel, friend of ours from LA, he's with us now" but that's not covered. I don't have the answers or the confidence to speculate.

LaPorte became acting capo for Emery in 1953...thats before Giancanas reign as boss...when Emery died in 56 or 57, LaPorte became official. Thats the same time when Roselli transferred from LA and everyone in the Outfits organization knew about him and the whole transfer. In 1965 Giancana was out while LaPorte was still a capo and never knew that Frattiano used to be his soldier...

Do we got sources for that? That would confirm that Fratianno's narrative wasn't entire accurate.

[Villain]

Who was his Chicago capo and what operation or district did he control for the Outfit? Did Fratianno had interests in any Chicago clubs or Outfit-connected joints from around the country? When Roselli transferred to the Outfit, besides Vegas, he also received few ops in Chicago, so i really wonder about Frattianos? Rosellis capo at the time was LaPorte, besides he being direct with Giancana, and LaPorte wasnt aware about Fratiannos transfer...so who was Frattianos capo? Giancana was out of the country....so who were Fratiannos Chi associates or crew members at the time? This is new for me and i really like to know

I'm paraphrasing from Roemer's book. You can look it up. I'm not arguing its accuracy.

In his own book, he doesn't state who was under. He does identify Frank la Porte as a Chicago caporegime he did business with and some assumed he was placed under him. He himself didn't specifically state this himself. Later on when he's approached about "taking over" LA for Brooklier he stated that he'd have to transfer back to LA.

Thanks. Well if LaPorte was his capo, he obviously wasnt aware about his new soldier, and niether were Ricca and Accardo and the rest of the organization, except for Roselli.

The whole situation stinks since Roselli also wanted to become the head of the LA fam but he received the middle finger from Ricca, same as the situation when he tried to extort Dalitz

He doesn't go into the functionality of the mob. He describes his position as capo as "taking care of a bunch of deadheads" when, if we're going by the NY model, should have been the other way around. Transferring to Chicago would have involved being placed with someone as well as an introduction "meet Weasel, friend of ours from LA, he's with us now" but that's not covered. I don't have the answers or the confidence to speculate.

LaPorte became acting capo for Emery in 1953...thats before Giancanas reign as boss...when Emery died in 56 or 57, LaPorte became official. Thats the same time when Roselli transferred from LA and everyone in the Outfits organization knew about him and the whole transfer. In 1965 Giancana was out while LaPorte was still a capo and never knew that Frattiano used to be his soldier...

Do we got sources for that? That would confirm that Fratianno's narrative wasn't entire accurate.

[Villain]

Heres the answer....it was obviously some type of scam orchastrated by Giancana and Roselli....so it seems that it wasnt fully official...

[Angelo Santino]

Interesting.

[B.]

Fratianno's story of the transfer was consistent with everyone he told about the situation, pre- and post-cooperation. The issue is that Nick Licata and Chicago refused to recognize the transfer. Whether Fratianno believed he was with Chicago during the interim is another question, but I would be very hesitant to consider him ever a Chicago member given the leadership refused to recognize it on both ends in 1967 and we have LaPorte (via Bompensiero, the source of the above files) denying it as well.

Members who transferred, especially those who lived remotely, weren't guaranteed anything financially. They achieved recognition from the family they joined and may have had new opportunities, but there was no guarantee of resources outside of what the member could generate on his own with the added status of membership.

Members did not want to be under boss Frank Desimone. John Roselli transferred to Chicago and Charlie Battaglia transferred to the Bonannos, so Fratianno's attempted transfer was part of the trend away from Desimone, who they all hated and were plotting against by 1961. Fratianno, Bompensiero, and Roselli were part of Joe Bonanno's initial conspiracy to remove Desimone. Fratianno's attempted transfer should be seen through that lens.

[B.]

Here is info from a meeting Bompensiero had with boss Licata where Licata says Roselli told him about the transfer:



Fratianno and Roselli both told the same story to Licata, but Licata felt proper protocol wasn't followed as Fratianno's captain and fellow decina members weren't consulted. I've never heard of this transfer protocol, only that transfers require approval of both family bosses.

[Villain]

I never knew there was a trend against DeSimone and it fits perfectly with all the transfers at the time. It is interesting to see if the Lucchese family were also aware of the transfer or not, since we know they were involved with the LA fam and the informant also mentiones Tommy Brown...




To be honest guys im still not convinced that Fratianno was ever a official full fledged member of the Outfit mainly because he wasnt recognized as one by anyone in the Chi organization, except by one former boss and one soldier. I mean, if you consider yourself a member of a family, but on the other hand no1 from that same family recognizes you as one, than you have a huge problem.

I strongly believe that Fratianno was swindled by both Roselli and Giancana, and they either took money or received some interests from Fratianno for it, and thats why they kept their mouths shut in Chicago so they wont share....or in other words it is possible that Fratianno somehow paid for his alleged membership, just to getaway from the LA fam, but was swindled by Giancana and Roselli by not being recognized by any high level member of the Outfit. Thats why Licata stayed out of it.

It is possible that they also looked at him as a fool or a "conniver" like Alderisio said, and simply swindled him...what was Fratianno going to do? Go against Giancana and the Outfit? Giancana was out of the country by 66 and became one of the Mobs main international reps around the world...also, as I already stated by that time Roselli lost his influence within the Outfit because of stuff like these...Fratianno...losing points at the Frontier by the Detriot fam....trying to extort Dalitz...and trying to takeover the LA fam...and i believe this was all Giancanas influence and his alibi was being out of the country

On top of that, during those days Fratianno was in debt to Alderisio who in turn was giving him loans at the time, and high level member such as Alderisio wasnt aware that Fratianno was in his own family? That stinks because as I already said that Alderisio was Giancana loyalist and knew almost everyone or who was who in the Outfit, KC, Milwaukee etc. since he controlled interests all around the country, same as LaPorte

[Angelo Santino]

Later on today I'll post some excerpts relating to what he says about Chicago as well as his Acting Boss story... Anybody want anything else?

*Note, he ended up suing Demaris after the book. His second book "Vengeance is Mine" is also very good, he sued that author too.