Trump, Felix Sater and The Mob

[scagghiuni]

Yes...and John Gotti was just a humble plumbing supply salesman, who occasionally bet on the ponies.

i don't like trump so i have not any reason to defend him, but there is not any proof that he is linked with russian mob, they are just speculations until they try something more evident

[TallGuy19]

Here is an article on Felix Sater that details his connections to Trump, Russian intelligence agencies, Russian and Italian organized crime, and his extensive criminal history—which includes stabbing a rival stockbroker in the face with a broken wine glass and a large-scale stock fraud operation.

I would give a more detailed summary, but his shady dealings are so extensive, I wouldn't know where to begin, quite frankly.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenat ... him/tnamp/

[Peppermint]

Every real estate developer in New York paid the mob for labor peace in the seventies and eighties. I don't think his connections to Italian organized crime were anything beyond the usual relationship that existed between organized crime and businessmen during that time period.

His connection to Russian organized crime groups is far more concerning, given that these groups often operate under the authority and protection of the Kremlin, and it would be very easy for these individuals to exploit his many weaknesses and catch him in compromising position.

there is not any proof trump is connected with russian oc, but it's sure he knew some new york mobster, i think he even admitted it

He did business with Felix Sater, who is alleged to be a made member of Russian organized crime.

Keyword is alleged. Just like he allegedly colluded with Russia.

What difference does it make if he's actually made or not? He is a convicted felon with ties to Russian spy agencies who has undoubtedly done business with Trump.

It's also very strange that, even though there are many pictures of them together and it is a well-known fact that he and Trump did business together, Trump continues to deny that he knows him. If there's nothing to hide, then why deny that you know the man and have done business with him?

If you were a President that is as vindicated as Trump is. Would you openly admit to having done business with someone, who has some what of a criminal past, even if your dealings with them wasn’t criminal in nature?

I know I wouldn’t, because that’s just more fuel to the media fire frenzy. It would incriminating, even if no crime was committed. That’s why the 5th amendment exists, to protect the innocent from having their own words used against them in a false confession. Happens all the time to innocent people who decide to give a statement. Of course criminals like Epstein will naturally take advantage of this important amendment, Trump should have neither confirmed nor denied, because denial does make it suspicious, that much I agree. But as a President, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

But Trump has been exonerated from any form of Russian collusion, be it with the Russian government or their mobster patsies. The investigation itself was a sham, and now there is an investigation into the sham itself. Unless you have evidence proving otherwise that the federal government doesn’t, then it’s all hearsay.

If I were falsely accused of a crime, I would gladly admit that I knew him, and I would provide paperwork and witnesses to prove that everything was above board and no crime was committed.

He didn't plead the 5th while under oath, he was denying it in interviews where he had the perfect opportunity to explain his side of the story.

An innocent person who is accused of something they didn't do is usually determined to prove their innocence by any means possible. Maybe Trump is wired differently, maybe he is naturally inclined to act like a guilty person when he is confronted with false allegations. I'm not a psychologist, and I'm in no position to psychoanalyze him; I just know the righteous indignation and overwhelming need for vindication that I feel when I'm accused of something I didn't do.

Ok so he wasn’t under oath, and it wasn’t technically pleading the 5th, that’s just semantics you know what I was getting at lol.

Anyway, I too would just deny deny deny. Regardless if the accusations are false, it’s better to deny than to admit because that admission could be contorted into confession and then used against you. Unless I was under an oath, that’s the only time I would neither confirm nor deny. The burden of proof isn’t on me, it’s on my accuser.

“You have a photo together” - “Wow really? Must have been at a business convention and we ran into each other and did a quick photo op” you know what I mean? Just an example if even evidence was presented to try and show I’m lying lol.

Fuck it, unless they can prove anything they’re accusing me of I really don’t see the point of confirming affiliation. That’ll give them an opportunity to falsely incriminate me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TallGuy19]

Every real estate developer in New York paid the mob for labor peace in the seventies and eighties. I don't think his connections to Italian organized crime were anything beyond the usual relationship that existed between organized crime and businessmen during that time period.

His connection to Russian organized crime groups is far more concerning, given that these groups often operate under the authority and protection of the Kremlin, and it would be very easy for these individuals to exploit his many weaknesses and catch him in compromising position.

there is not any proof trump is connected with russian oc, but it's sure he knew some new york mobster, i think he even admitted it

He did business with Felix Sater, who is alleged to be a made member of Russian organized crime.

Keyword is alleged. Just like he allegedly colluded with Russia.

What difference does it make if he's actually made or not? He is a convicted felon with ties to Russian spy agencies who has undoubtedly done business with Trump.

It's also very strange that, even though there are many pictures of them together and it is a well-known fact that he and Trump did business together, Trump continues to deny that he knows him. If there's nothing to hide, then why deny that you know the man and have done business with him?

If you were a President that is as vindicated as Trump is. Would you openly admit to having done business with someone, who has some what of a criminal past, even if your dealings with them wasn’t criminal in nature?

I know I wouldn’t, because that’s just more fuel to the media fire frenzy. It would incriminating, even if no crime was committed. That’s why the 5th amendment exists, to protect the innocent from having their own words used against them in a false confession. Happens all the time to innocent people who decide to give a statement. Of course criminals like Epstein will naturally take advantage of this important amendment, Trump should have neither confirmed nor denied, because denial does make it suspicious, that much I agree. But as a President, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

But Trump has been exonerated from any form of Russian collusion, be it with the Russian government or their mobster patsies. The investigation itself was a sham, and now there is an investigation into the sham itself. Unless you have evidence proving otherwise that the federal government doesn’t, then it’s all hearsay.

If I were falsely accused of a crime, I would gladly admit that I knew him, and I would provide paperwork and witnesses to prove that everything was above board and no crime was committed.

He didn't plead the 5th while under oath, he was denying it in interviews where he had the perfect opportunity to explain his side of the story.

An innocent person who is accused of something they didn't do is usually determined to prove their innocence by any means possible. Maybe Trump is wired differently, maybe he is naturally inclined to act like a guilty person when he is confronted with false allegations. I'm not a psychologist, and I'm in no position to psychoanalyze him; I just know the righteous indignation and overwhelming need for vindication that I feel when I'm accused of something I didn't do.

Ok so he wasn’t under oath, and it wasn’t technically pleading the 5th, that’s just semantics you know what I was getting at lol.

Anyway, I too would just deny deny deny. Regardless if the accusations are false, it’s better to deny than to admit because that admission could be contorted into confession and then used against you. Unless I was under an oath, that’s the only time I would neither confirm nor deny. The burden of proof isn’t on me, it’s on my accuser.

“You have a photo together” - “Wow really? Must have been at a business convention and we ran into each other and did a quick photo op” you know what I mean? Just an example if even evidence was presented to try and show I’m lying lol.

Fuck it, unless they can prove anything they’re accusing me of I really don’t see the point of confirming affiliation. That’ll give them an opportunity to falsely incriminate me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If he's unwilling or unable to provide definitive proof that he is innocent, he should stop claiming that he is being falsely accused or persecuted. The fact that he is in the White House is the only reason he hasn't been prosecuted. He has been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in at least one federal indictment and will be prosecuted the minute he leaves office.

He had a perfect opportunity to prove his innocence during the impeachment trial, but he forced the Senate not to call any witnesses. Again, he has had many opportunities to prove himself innocent, the fact that he has chosen not to speaks volumes—his tax returns alone could clear up most of the allegations against him. If he released them, we could see how much money he has, where his money is coming from, and who he is doing business with, so why doesn't he release them and prove us all wrong?

You accuse Hillary Clinton of being crooked (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but even she released her taxes.

[Pogo The Clown]

That whole impeachment trial was a joke and he was right not to dignify it by appearing in it or calling witnesses. Same with supplying his tax returns. Don't give an inch to people that want you dead.


Pogo

[Peppermint]

Every real estate developer in New York paid the mob for labor peace in the seventies and eighties. I don't think his connections to Italian organized crime were anything beyond the usual relationship that existed between organized crime and businessmen during that time period.

His connection to Russian organized crime groups is far more concerning, given that these groups often operate under the authority and protection of the Kremlin, and it would be very easy for these individuals to exploit his many weaknesses and catch him in compromising position.

there is not any proof trump is connected with russian oc, but it's sure he knew some new york mobster, i think he even admitted it

He did business with Felix Sater, who is alleged to be a made member of Russian organized crime.

Keyword is alleged. Just like he allegedly colluded with Russia.

What difference does it make if he's actually made or not? He is a convicted felon with ties to Russian spy agencies who has undoubtedly done business with Trump.

It's also very strange that, even though there are many pictures of them together and it is a well-known fact that he and Trump did business together, Trump continues to deny that he knows him. If there's nothing to hide, then why deny that you know the man and have done business with him?

If you were a President that is as vindicated as Trump is. Would you openly admit to having done business with someone, who has some what of a criminal past, even if your dealings with them wasn’t criminal in nature?

I know I wouldn’t, because that’s just more fuel to the media fire frenzy. It would incriminating, even if no crime was committed. That’s why the 5th amendment exists, to protect the innocent from having their own words used against them in a false confession. Happens all the time to innocent people who decide to give a statement. Of course criminals like Epstein will naturally take advantage of this important amendment, Trump should have neither confirmed nor denied, because denial does make it suspicious, that much I agree. But as a President, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

But Trump has been exonerated from any form of Russian collusion, be it with the Russian government or their mobster patsies. The investigation itself was a sham, and now there is an investigation into the sham itself. Unless you have evidence proving otherwise that the federal government doesn’t, then it’s all hearsay.

If I were falsely accused of a crime, I would gladly admit that I knew him, and I would provide paperwork and witnesses to prove that everything was above board and no crime was committed.

He didn't plead the 5th while under oath, he was denying it in interviews where he had the perfect opportunity to explain his side of the story.

An innocent person who is accused of something they didn't do is usually determined to prove their innocence by any means possible. Maybe Trump is wired differently, maybe he is naturally inclined to act like a guilty person when he is confronted with false allegations. I'm not a psychologist, and I'm in no position to psychoanalyze him; I just know the righteous indignation and overwhelming need for vindication that I feel when I'm accused of something I didn't do.

Ok so he wasn’t under oath, and it wasn’t technically pleading the 5th, that’s just semantics you know what I was getting at lol.

Anyway, I too would just deny deny deny. Regardless if the accusations are false, it’s better to deny than to admit because that admission could be contorted into confession and then used against you. Unless I was under an oath, that’s the only time I would neither confirm nor deny. The burden of proof isn’t on me, it’s on my accuser.

“You have a photo together” - “Wow really? Must have been at a business convention and we ran into each other and did a quick photo op” you know what I mean? Just an example if even evidence was presented to try and show I’m lying lol.

Fuck it, unless they can prove anything they’re accusing me of I really don’t see the point of confirming affiliation. That’ll give them an opportunity to falsely incriminate me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If he's unwilling or unable to provide definitive proof that he is innocent, he should stop claiming that he is being falsely accused or persecuted. The fact that he is in the White House is the only reason he hasn't been prosecuted. He has been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in at least one federal indictment and will be prosecuted the minute he leaves office.

He had a perfect opportunity to prove his innocence during the impeachment trial, but he forced the Senate not to call any witnesses. Again, he has had many opportunities to prove himself innocent, the fact that he has chosen not to speaks volumes—his tax returns alone could clear up most of the allegations against him. If he released them, we could see how much money he has, where his money is coming from, and who he is doing business with, so why doesn't he release them and prove us all wrong?

You accuse Hillary Clinton of being crooked (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but even she released her taxes.

My guess is you never been accused of a crime you didn’t commit before. Am I right?

But you know what’s funny about your logic though? Obama released his birth certificate when he was being accused of being a foreigner born abroad, and what do you know those same people turned around and said it was forgeries.

Why should Trump release his tax returns? There isn’t a law that says he nor any other politician is required to. I don’t know why people automatically expect a politician is obligated to release their private financial records they wouldn’t be held to that if they were still a regular citizen. I too wouldn’t release a shred of my financial records even if there was nothing to hide. Unless it’s literally a court order, then fuck it why should I? To shut up a bunch of cackling geese? Even if I did, they’d find something unsatisfactory about it, because when it comes to people who just seem to want to demonize you over every little thing it’s never enough. My guess is you never been demonized before either, huh?

Any good defense attorney that’s worth your money would tell you even if you did nothing to deny everything. Because the burden of proof is on the one making the accusation. You don’t have to prove you did anything, my guess is you don’t understand law that well either.

[Brian the brain]

Personally I do not care if Trump had any dealings with OC of any kind. I’m a Trump supporter and voted for him to do a job not to be a saint. I think he has done a great job as President and not to mention that compared to the Clinton’s he is a saint. The Clinton’s and Obama administration have done far worse than anything Trump is even being accused of.

[TallGuy19]

Every real estate developer in New York paid the mob for labor peace in the seventies and eighties. I don't think his connections to Italian organized crime were anything beyond the usual relationship that existed between organized crime and businessmen during that time period.

His connection to Russian organized crime groups is far more concerning, given that these groups often operate under the authority and protection of the Kremlin, and it would be very easy for these individuals to exploit his many weaknesses and catch him in compromising position.

there is not any proof trump is connected with russian oc, but it's sure he knew some new york mobster, i think he even admitted it

He did business with Felix Sater, who is alleged to be a made member of Russian organized crime.

Keyword is alleged. Just like he allegedly colluded with Russia.

What difference does it make if he's actually made or not? He is a convicted felon with ties to Russian spy agencies who has undoubtedly done business with Trump.

It's also very strange that, even though there are many pictures of them together and it is a well-known fact that he and Trump did business together, Trump continues to deny that he knows him. If there's nothing to hide, then why deny that you know the man and have done business with him?

If you were a President that is as vindicated as Trump is. Would you openly admit to having done business with someone, who has some what of a criminal past, even if your dealings with them wasn’t criminal in nature?

I know I wouldn’t, because that’s just more fuel to the media fire frenzy. It would incriminating, even if no crime was committed. That’s why the 5th amendment exists, to protect the innocent from having their own words used against them in a false confession. Happens all the time to innocent people who decide to give a statement. Of course criminals like Epstein will naturally take advantage of this important amendment, Trump should have neither confirmed nor denied, because denial does make it suspicious, that much I agree. But as a President, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

But Trump has been exonerated from any form of Russian collusion, be it with the Russian government or their mobster patsies. The investigation itself was a sham, and now there is an investigation into the sham itself. Unless you have evidence proving otherwise that the federal government doesn’t, then it’s all hearsay.

If I were falsely accused of a crime, I would gladly admit that I knew him, and I would provide paperwork and witnesses to prove that everything was above board and no crime was committed.

He didn't plead the 5th while under oath, he was denying it in interviews where he had the perfect opportunity to explain his side of the story.

An innocent person who is accused of something they didn't do is usually determined to prove their innocence by any means possible. Maybe Trump is wired differently, maybe he is naturally inclined to act like a guilty person when he is confronted with false allegations. I'm not a psychologist, and I'm in no position to psychoanalyze him; I just know the righteous indignation and overwhelming need for vindication that I feel when I'm accused of something I didn't do.

Ok so he wasn’t under oath, and it wasn’t technically pleading the 5th, that’s just semantics you know what I was getting at lol.

Anyway, I too would just deny deny deny. Regardless if the accusations are false, it’s better to deny than to admit because that admission could be contorted into confession and then used against you. Unless I was under an oath, that’s the only time I would neither confirm nor deny. The burden of proof isn’t on me, it’s on my accuser.

“You have a photo together” - “Wow really? Must have been at a business convention and we ran into each other and did a quick photo op” you know what I mean? Just an example if even evidence was presented to try and show I’m lying lol.

Fuck it, unless they can prove anything they’re accusing me of I really don’t see the point of confirming affiliation. That’ll give them an opportunity to falsely incriminate me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If he's unwilling or unable to provide definitive proof that he is innocent, he should stop claiming that he is being falsely accused or persecuted. The fact that he is in the White House is the only reason he hasn't been prosecuted. He has been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in at least one federal indictment and will be prosecuted the minute he leaves office.

He had a perfect opportunity to prove his innocence during the impeachment trial, but he forced the Senate not to call any witnesses. Again, he has had many opportunities to prove himself innocent, the fact that he has chosen not to speaks volumes—his tax returns alone could clear up most of the allegations against him. If he released them, we could see how much money he has, where his money is coming from, and who he is doing business with, so why doesn't he release them and prove us all wrong?

You accuse Hillary Clinton of being crooked (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but even she released her taxes.

My guess is you never been accused of a crime you didn’t commit before. Am I right?

But you know what’s funny about your logic though? Obama released his birth certificate when he was being accused of being a foreigner born abroad, and what do you know those same people turned around and said it was forgeries.

Why should Trump release his tax returns? There isn’t a law that says he nor any other politician is required to. I don’t know why people automatically expect a politician is obligated to release their private financial records they wouldn’t be held to that if they were still a regular citizen. I too wouldn’t release a shred of my financial records even if there was nothing to hide. Unless it’s literally a court order, then fuck it why should I? To shut up a bunch of cackling geese? Even if I did, they’d find something unsatisfactory about it, because when it comes to people who just seem to want to demonize you over every little thing it’s never enough. My guess is you never been demonized before either, huh?

Any good defense attorney that’s worth your money would tell you even if you did nothing to deny everything. Because the burden of proof is on the one making the accusation. You don’t have to prove you did anything, my guess is you don’t understand law that well either.

I have been falsely accused and convicted of a crime. I fought the charges with everything I had, but I had very little evidence to prove my innocence and it was basically my word against the word of a cop.

As a real estate developer, Trump should have plenty of paperwork and witnesses to prove his innocence. I can tell you that if I would have had more evidence to prove my side of the story, I would have shown it to anyone who wanted to see it. This was eleven years ago, and I am still bitter over it. And again, maybe Trump is wired differently than me, but being falsely accused of a crime angered me and made me want to fight like hell to clear my name.

[Peppermint]

Personally I do not care if Trump had any dealings with OC of any kind. I’m a Trump supporter and voted for him to do a job not to be a saint. I think he has done a great job as President and not to mention that compared to the Clinton’s he is a saint. The Clinton’s and Obama administration have done far worse than anything Trump is even being accused of.

Personally I do not care if Trump had any dealings with OC of any kind. I’m a Trump supporter and voted for him to do a job not to be a saint. I think he has done a great job as President and not to mention that compared to the Clinton’s he is a saint. The Clinton’s and Obama administration have done far worse than anything Trump is even being accused of.

It’s not about organized crime anymore really, Tallguy is implicating that Trump has colluded with the Russian government through organized crime channels. Being Felix was implicated in the Muller investigation, which ultimately turned up with nothing and Trump was later exonerated from collusion charges. So I don’t really quite understand what this guy is even accusing Trump of at this point now.

There was also no quid pro quo in the Ukraine situation, Trump didn’t do anything wrong other than suggest they look into corruption involving Biden’s son, not even Joe Biden himself which would have been a quid pro quo. Just so happened to have turned out Old Joe had something to do with that too which the finding was inadvertent. But even the Ukraine President dismissed any form of malpractice was involved in that phone call, and he’s the one supposedly to have been “intimidated by Trump” so again... No idea what we are even talking about anymore lol

Trump has done and said some silly shit, but none of the things the Democrats have tried accusing him of.

[Peppermint]

[quote=TallGuy19 post_id=154900 time=1591309870 user_id=5887]
Every real estate developer in New York paid the mob for labor peace in the seventies and eighties. I don't think his connections to Italian organized crime were anything beyond the usual relationship that existed between organized crime and businessmen during that time period.

His connection to Russian organized crime groups is far more concerning, given that these groups often operate under the authority and protection of the Kremlin, and it would be very easy for these individuals to exploit his many weaknesses and catch him in compromising position.

there is not any proof trump is connected with russian oc, but it's sure he knew some new york mobster, i think he even admitted it

He did business with Felix Sater, who is alleged to be a made member of Russian organized crime.

Keyword is alleged. Just like he allegedly colluded with Russia.

What difference does it make if he's actually made or not? He is a convicted felon with ties to Russian spy agencies who has undoubtedly done business with Trump.

It's also very strange that, even though there are many pictures of them together and it is a well-known fact that he and Trump did business together, Trump continues to deny that he knows him. If there's nothing to hide, then why deny that you know the man and have done business with him?

If you were a President that is as vindicated as Trump is. Would you openly admit to having done business with someone, who has some what of a criminal past, even if your dealings with them wasn’t criminal in nature?

I know I wouldn’t, because that’s just more fuel to the media fire frenzy. It would incriminating, even if no crime was committed. That’s why the 5th amendment exists, to protect the innocent from having their own words used against them in a false confession. Happens all the time to innocent people who decide to give a statement. Of course criminals like Epstein will naturally take advantage of this important amendment, Trump should have neither confirmed nor denied, because denial does make it suspicious, that much I agree. But as a President, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

But Trump has been exonerated from any form of Russian collusion, be it with the Russian government or their mobster patsies. The investigation itself was a sham, and now there is an investigation into the sham itself. Unless you have evidence proving otherwise that the federal government doesn’t, then it’s all hearsay.

If I were falsely accused of a crime, I would gladly admit that I knew him, and I would provide paperwork and witnesses to prove that everything was above board and no crime was committed.

He didn't plead the 5th while under oath, he was denying it in interviews where he had the perfect opportunity to explain his side of the story.

An innocent person who is accused of something they didn't do is usually determined to prove their innocence by any means possible. Maybe Trump is wired differently, maybe he is naturally inclined to act like a guilty person when he is confronted with false allegations. I'm not a psychologist, and I'm in no position to psychoanalyze him; I just know the righteous indignation and overwhelming need for vindication that I feel when I'm accused of something I didn't do.

Ok so he wasn’t under oath, and it wasn’t technically pleading the 5th, that’s just semantics you know what I was getting at lol.

Anyway, I too would just deny deny deny. Regardless if the accusations are false, it’s better to deny than to admit because that admission could be contorted into confession and then used against you. Unless I was under an oath, that’s the only time I would neither confirm nor deny. The burden of proof isn’t on me, it’s on my accuser.

“You have a photo together” - “Wow really? Must have been at a business convention and we ran into each other and did a quick photo op” you know what I mean? Just an example if even evidence was presented to try and show I’m lying lol.

Fuck it, unless they can prove anything they’re accusing me of I really don’t see the point of confirming affiliation. That’ll give them an opportunity to falsely incriminate me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If he's unwilling or unable to provide definitive proof that he is innocent, he should stop claiming that he is being falsely accused or persecuted. The fact that he is in the White House is the only reason he hasn't been prosecuted. He has been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in at least one federal indictment and will be prosecuted the minute he leaves office.

He had a perfect opportunity to prove his innocence during the impeachment trial, but he forced the Senate not to call any witnesses. Again, he has had many opportunities to prove himself innocent, the fact that he has chosen not to speaks volumes—his tax returns alone could clear up most of the allegations against him. If he released them, we could see how much money he has, where his money is coming from, and who he is doing business with, so why doesn't he release them and prove us all wrong?

You accuse Hillary Clinton of being crooked (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but even she released her taxes.

My guess is you never been accused of a crime you didn’t commit before. Am I right?

But you know what’s funny about your logic though? Obama released his birth certificate when he was being accused of being a foreigner born abroad, and what do you know those same people turned around and said it was forgeries.

Why should Trump release his tax returns? There isn’t a law that says he nor any other politician is required to. I don’t know why people automatically expect a politician is obligated to release their private financial records they wouldn’t be held to that if they were still a regular citizen. I too wouldn’t release a shred of my financial records even if there was nothing to hide. Unless it’s literally a court order, then fuck it why should I? To shut up a bunch of cackling geese? Even if I did, they’d find something unsatisfactory about it, because when it comes to people who just seem to want to demonize you over every little thing it’s never enough. My guess is you never been demonized before either, huh?

Any good defense attorney that’s worth your money would tell you even if you did nothing to deny everything. Because the burden of proof is on the one making the accusation. You don’t have to prove you did anything, my guess is you don’t understand law that well either.

I have been falsely accused and convicted of a crime. I fought the charges with everything I had, but I had very little evidence to prove my innocence and it was basically my word against the word of a cop.

As a real estate developer, Trump should have plenty of paperwork and witnesses to prove his innocence. I can tell you that if I would have had more evidence to prove my side of the story, I would have shown it to anyone who wanted to see it. This was eleven years ago, and I am still bitter over it. And again, maybe Trump is wired differently than me, but being falsely accused of a crime angered me and made me want to fight like hell to clear my name.
[/quote]

Maybe you should have tried denying everything, and let the prosecutor try and prove their allegations against you then. Probably would have went way different for you, that’s exactly why you never talk especially without sufficient evidence. Sometimes the best defense, is just playing defense.

Of course it’s history now, all you can really do is just move on from it. But next time, try the denial route and like the prosecution present their equally insufficient evidence against you. If you would have taken that to trial, and let them present their lack of evidence, it would have went no where and probably have been dismissed for insufficient evidence. Clearly if it was just their word against yours, you dug your own grave by just associating yourself with the crime further. Their argument would have never held water in a trial, because with your denial the burden of proof is theirs to bare, and they wouldn’t have had anything enough to charge you with, because word of mouth is just hearsay.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Every real estate developer in New York paid the mob for labor peace in the seventies and eighties.

I doubt that. For starters it would weaken the unions, and thus the mob's leverage against developers.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Trump has flat out said that anyone and everyone who wanted to build in New York at that time had to deal with the mob

Oh, well there you go!

[Bruno187]

Every real estate developer in New York paid the mob for labor peace in the seventies and eighties. I don't think his connections to Italian organized crime were anything beyond the usual relationship that existed between organized crime and businessmen during that time period.

His connection to Russian organized crime groups is far more concerning, given that these groups often operate under the authority and protection of the Kremlin, and it would be very easy for these individuals to exploit his many weaknesses and catch him in compromising position.

there is not any proof trump is connected with russian oc, but it's sure he knew some new york mobster, i think he even admitted it

He did business with Felix Sater, who is alleged to be a made member of Russian organized crime.

Keyword is alleged. Just like he allegedly colluded with Russia.

What difference does it make if he's actually made or not? He is a convicted felon with ties to Russian spy agencies who has undoubtedly done business with Trump.

It's also very strange that, even though there are many pictures of them together and it is a well-known fact that he and Trump did business together, Trump continues to deny that he knows him. If there's nothing to hide, then why deny that you know the man and have done business with him?

If you were a President that is as vindicated as Trump is. Would you openly admit to having done business with someone, who has some what of a criminal past, even if your dealings with them wasn’t criminal in nature?

I know I wouldn’t, because that’s just more fuel to the media fire frenzy. It would incriminating, even if no crime was committed. That’s why the 5th amendment exists, to protect the innocent from having their own words used against them in a false confession. Happens all the time to innocent people who decide to give a statement. Of course criminals like Epstein will naturally take advantage of this important amendment, Trump should have neither confirmed nor denied, because denial does make it suspicious, that much I agree. But as a President, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

But Trump has been exonerated from any form of Russian collusion, be it with the Russian government or their mobster patsies. The investigation itself was a sham, and now there is an investigation into the sham itself. Unless you have evidence proving otherwise that the federal government doesn’t, then it’s all hearsay.

Wait a minute here.....Let's get this straight Peppermint boy....Trump was NOT vindicated. he was Impeached. That is not exonerated. He also obstructed justice by prohibiting Bolton and McGahn from testifying before Congress. He only got away with that shit because he had a room full of enabling senators who had no interest in hearing anything truthful. If he had nothing to hide, as so many might claim, why not let everybody tell the truth and exonerate him? Because he's dirty as fuck, that's why. He conducts private meetings with Putin, Kislyak, and Lavrov with no US translators present, in yet another break with norms. Technically, anything said in those meetings should be preserved for posterity as part of the Presidential archive. He doesn't, and anybody with half a brain has to wonder what the fuck he's so hell bent on hiding. You know, as part of this group, I would think most (at least guys who grew up around the life and are from NY) would just be able to tell a con-artist scumbag when they see and hear one....I have a very keen bullshit monitor that goes up with the slightest bit of nonsense. How is it that so many otherwise savvy street guys don't see Donald Trump as anything but a self-serving con artist who really only serves himself and his half ass crime family? Look....if it's about money and you think he's somehow gonna put more of it in your pocket, that's one thing...I can ALMOST wrap my head around that. Or the racism thing....if you're a backward hillbilly racist and Trump pushes those white supremacist buttons for you, then that's another thing. But as far as him being "innocent" and not guilty of anything "nefarious"....I gotta call bullshit. He's not only self-serving and a liar, but he's actually terrible at being a con man.

[Peppermint]

Every real estate developer in New York paid the mob for labor peace in the seventies and eighties. I don't think his connections to Italian organized crime were anything beyond the usual relationship that existed between organized crime and businessmen during that time period.

His connection to Russian organized crime groups is far more concerning, given that these groups often operate under the authority and protection of the Kremlin, and it would be very easy for these individuals to exploit his many weaknesses and catch him in compromising position.

there is not any proof trump is connected with russian oc, but it's sure he knew some new york mobster, i think he even admitted it

He did business with Felix Sater, who is alleged to be a made member of Russian organized crime.

Keyword is alleged. Just like he allegedly colluded with Russia.

What difference does it make if he's actually made or not? He is a convicted felon with ties to Russian spy agencies who has undoubtedly done business with Trump.

It's also very strange that, even though there are many pictures of them together and it is a well-known fact that he and Trump did business together, Trump continues to deny that he knows him. If there's nothing to hide, then why deny that you know the man and have done business with him?

If you were a President that is as vindicated as Trump is. Would you openly admit to having done business with someone, who has some what of a criminal past, even if your dealings with them wasn’t criminal in nature?

I know I wouldn’t, because that’s just more fuel to the media fire frenzy. It would incriminating, even if no crime was committed. That’s why the 5th amendment exists, to protect the innocent from having their own words used against them in a false confession. Happens all the time to innocent people who decide to give a statement. Of course criminals like Epstein will naturally take advantage of this important amendment, Trump should have neither confirmed nor denied, because denial does make it suspicious, that much I agree. But as a President, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

But Trump has been exonerated from any form of Russian collusion, be it with the Russian government or their mobster patsies. The investigation itself was a sham, and now there is an investigation into the sham itself. Unless you have evidence proving otherwise that the federal government doesn’t, then it’s all hearsay.

Wait a minute here.....Let's get this straight Peppermint boy....Trump was NOT vindicated. he was Impeached. That is not exonerated. He also obstructed justice by prohibiting Bolton and McGahn from testifying before Congress. He only got away with that shit because he had a room full of enabling senators who had no interest in hearing anything truthful. If he had nothing to hide, as so many might claim, why not let everybody tell the truth and exonerate him? Because he's dirty as fuck, that's why. He conducts private meetings with Putin, Kislyak, and Lavrov with no US translators present, in yet another break with norms. Technically, anything said in those meetings should be preserved for posterity as part of the Presidential archive. He doesn't, and anybody with half a brain has to wonder what the fuck he's so hell bent on hiding. You know, as part of this group, I would think most (at least guys who grew up around the life and are from NY) would just be able to tell a con-artist scumbag when they see and hear one....I have a very keen bullshit monitor that goes up with the slightest bit of nonsense. How is it that so many otherwise savvy street guys don't see Donald Trump as anything but a self-serving con artist who really only serves himself and his half ass crime family? Look....if it's about money and you think he's somehow gonna put more of it in your pocket, that's one thing...I can ALMOST wrap my head around that. Or the racism thing....if you're a backward hillbilly racist and Trump pushes those white supremacist buttons for you, then that's another thing. But as far as him being "innocent" and not guilty of anything "nefarious"....I gotta call bullshit. He's not only self-serving and a liar, but he's actually terrible at being a con man.

Wait a minute, let me stop you.

Trump was impeached for nothing that has to do with Russia, so you just gave me this whole lecture for nothing because it’s irrelevant.

As for Russian collusion he is being vindicated, even though even upon the special counsel’s investigation. He was completely cleared of having colluded with the Russian government or their patsies. So what are you even saying? You watch too much CNN, Chris Cuomo is rotting your fucking brain.

[Brian the brain]

Yes, I agree, too much CNN will make you a liberal idiot that obviously doesn’t know what the fuck your talking about.