Fosco's Mafia Report: DiFronzo and Outfit schism

[Snakes]

I think there is still tons more information to be found but it may take years until we know it. It's like putting together a puzzle we don't have all of the pieces for, yet. We get some idea, but we can't be 100% sure that's what it is until we get those missing pieces. That's what makes it fun, at least to weirdos like us!

[PolackTony]

New member here. Chicago native, some family connections to outfit guys. (no, I don't claim to have any inside info). I have always been very interested in the outfit and have spent countless hours over the past 10 years researching FBI files and news reports, ANP (taken with a grain of salt) in addition to all the great information brought on this forum.

After all of this reading, It felt like time to offer my opinions on the current state of the Outfit.

The time period that is the most interesting to me is 1986- Today. As we all know it's very hard to nail down all the exact developments through present day. However, I do want to share what I believe to be the most rational, likely scenario based on all the information we have.

Here we go....

1986- well established that Carlisi becomes Boss, Difronzo Underboss. Accardo is either Top Boss or a semi-retired advisor. By 1992 Carlisi is in jail, Accardo is dead, and Difronzo is soon to be indicted in the Rincon Reservation deal.

Difronzo is released in 1994....Fosco says it was because he became a CI. I'm not so sure that's the case. I believe he comes out as boss of the outfit. However, it's clear that by this time he is re-thinking his future, particularly in the sense that he does not want to spend his golden years in prison. His goal becomes to distance himself from any indictments, and slowly transition the Outfit to someone else.

How does he achieve this?

1.)Get a Front Boss. Most sources peg this as Apes Montelone. Makes sense. After Apes, Marcello gets it when he is out of prison.

2.) Encourage all of his inner circle from the Elmwood Park crew to dis-associate themselves from street level activities. Notice I say "Inner Circle". I do not agree with others that he "de-activated" the entire crew to protect himself. I believe he worked with the upper level guys (Pete D., Marco D, Joey A) to reduce street level stuff and go legit. These were the guys that could pull Difronzo down in an indictment if they went down. They all had tons of money, didn't need a prison sentence, and furthermore would insulate Difronzo by stepping back. I do not buy that younger, low level guys were forced to stop doing what they do. Difronzo just insulated himself from it, and probably stopped asking for tribute from those low level guys. He did not want to be involved.

Moving forward into the 2000's, I believe Difronzo was still top boss as late as 2005. (even though his EP inner circle had gone mostly legit). Family Secrets hits, and he finally decides to really hang it up. This is where I believe we see the full transition of power away from the old Elmwood Park crew as the dominant crew of the outfit, and over to the Cicero crew. My guess is Family Secrets is what finally brought it on. He officially transitions the power seat to Cicero. Most likely Sarno is in as some type of front boss for the real Cicero powers Inendino, Delaurentis, and Tornabene.

Difronzo may still ask for some type of tribute from the organization as a retired advisor, but by 2005/06 he is mostly out and stops being involved in major organizational decisions.

Finally, I believe this power shift to Cicero in 2005/2006 is what brought about the Tony Zizzo hit. Melrose Park crew is floundering without Marcello. There is a conflict between what is left of MP and the new Cicero power base/top admin. Cicero decides in order to streamline the system and bring everyone in line they must take Zizzo out.

Now this brings us closer to the modern day outfit. I do not believe that we are looking at 2 distinct organizations. (What is left of Elwwood and Grand, and then what is left of 26th and Cicero). My opinion is that Cicero is the power base overseeing the other crews. I do believe that whoever was still operating out of Elmwood Park was folded into Grand Ave. Strong evidence for this is that Steve Mandell, the Elmwood Park connected former cop, went right to Albie Vena for permission to kill someone in 2011/2012 (FBI wiretap). Why would an EP guy go to the Capo of Grand to ask permission? Because whoever was still working from EP was folded into Grand by that time.

This leads us to today. Cicero as the power, EP/Grand as a sub crew, 26th st either directly under Cicero or folded into Cicero. Who fills the spots? Delaurentis could potentially be the Accardo role, semi retired, or possibly totally out. Inendino possibly boss, Vena as underboss.

Is it streamlined like it was 40 years ago? No way. Looser, less defined. Less members, but still profitable and connected via 1 organization. More legitimate business and white collar crime, with some street elements here and there. 15-25 made guys, 100-200 loose associates total.

1 Man's opinion...

I'm personally in agreement regarding the active street guys in EP being folded into Grand Ave. This may have already happened under Cozzo's reign, and if not then under Vena. The question remains whether EP still exists as something like a distinct sub-crew under Vena (headed by Dote or Abbinanti). Same question as Chinatown (under Caruso presumably) vis-a-vis Cicero. If that were the case, then it would be some vestige of the old territorial boss template (as Villain has speculated), with Vena boss of the North/Northwest and Inendino boss over Cicero/the Southside but with smaller sub-crews in EP and Chinatown.

[Coloboy]

Throughout this timeline in the 90's -early 2000's, one thing I didn't address is the role of Lombardo. I do not have enough information to have really any theory on whether he was a boss on the top level equal with difronzo, a consigliere, or simply the capo of Grand Ave.

Lots of mysteries for sure.

[Villain]

New member here. Chicago native, some family connections to outfit guys. (no, I don't claim to have any inside info). I have always been very interested in the outfit and have spent countless hours over the past 10 years researching FBI files and news reports, ANP (taken with a grain of salt) in addition to all the great information brought on this forum.

After all of this reading, It felt like time to offer my opinions on the current state of the Outfit.

The time period that is the most interesting to me is 1986- Today. As we all know it's very hard to nail down all the exact developments through present day. However, I do want to share what I believe to be the most rational, likely scenario based on all the information we have.

Here we go....

1986- well established that Carlisi becomes Boss, Difronzo Underboss. Accardo is either Top Boss or a semi-retired advisor. By 1992 Carlisi is in jail, Accardo is dead, and Difronzo is soon to be indicted in the Rincon Reservation deal.

Difronzo is released in 1994....Fosco says it was because he became a CI. I'm not so sure that's the case. I believe he comes out as boss of the outfit. However, it's clear that by this time he is re-thinking his future, particularly in the sense that he does not want to spend his golden years in prison. His goal becomes to distance himself from any indictments, and slowly transition the Outfit to someone else.

How does he achieve this?

1.)Get a Front Boss. Most sources peg this as Apes Montelone. Makes sense. After Apes, Marcello gets it when he is out of prison.

2.) Encourage all of his inner circle from the Elmwood Park crew to dis-associate themselves from street level activities. Notice I say "Inner Circle". I do not agree with others that he "de-activated" the entire crew to protect himself. I believe he worked with the upper level guys (Pete D., Marco D, Joey A) to reduce street level stuff and go legit. These were the guys that could pull Difronzo down in an indictment if they went down. They all had tons of money, didn't need a prison sentence, and furthermore would insulate Difronzo by stepping back. I do not buy that younger, low level guys were forced to stop doing what they do. Difronzo just insulated himself from it, and probably stopped asking for tribute from those low level guys. He did not want to be involved.

Moving forward into the 2000's, I believe Difronzo was still top boss as late as 2005. (even though his EP inner circle had gone mostly legit). Family Secrets hits, and he finally decides to really hang it up. This is where I believe we see the full transition of power away from the old Elmwood Park crew as the dominant crew of the outfit, and over to the Cicero crew. My guess is Family Secrets is what finally brought it on. He officially transitions the power seat to Cicero. Most likely Sarno is in as some type of front boss for the real Cicero powers Inendino, Delaurentis, and Tornabene.

Difronzo may still ask for some type of tribute from the organization as a retired advisor, but by 2005/06 he is mostly out and stops being involved in major organizational decisions.

Finally, I believe this power shift to Cicero in 2005/2006 is what brought about the Tony Zizzo hit. Melrose Park crew is floundering without Marcello. There is a conflict between what is left of MP and the new Cicero power base/top admin. Cicero decides in order to streamline the system and bring everyone in line they must take Zizzo out.

Now this brings us closer to the modern day outfit. I do not believe that we are looking at 2 distinct organizations. (What is left of Elwwood and Grand, and then what is left of 26th and Cicero). My opinion is that Cicero is the power base overseeing the other crews. I do believe that whoever was still operating out of Elmwood Park was folded into Grand Ave. Strong evidence for this is that Steve Mandell, the Elmwood Park connected former cop, went right to Albie Vena for permission to kill someone in 2011/2012 (FBI wiretap). Why would an EP guy go to the Capo of Grand to ask permission? Because whoever was still working from EP was folded into Grand by that time.

This leads us to today. Cicero as the power, EP/Grand as a sub crew, 26th st either directly under Cicero or folded into Cicero. Who fills the spots? Delaurentis could potentially be the Accardo role, semi retired, or possibly totally out. Inendino possibly boss, Vena as underboss.

Is it streamlined like it was 40 years ago? No way. Looser, less defined. Less members, but still profitable and connected via 1 organization. More legitimate business and white collar crime, with some street elements here and there. 15-25 made guys, 100-200 loose associates total.

1 Man's opinion...

I'm personally in agreement regarding the active street guys in EP being folded into Grand Ave. This may have already happened under Cozzo's reign, and if not then under Vena. The question remains whether EP still exists as something like a distinct sub-crew under Vena (headed by Dote or Abbinanti). Same question as Chinatown (under Caruso presumably) vis-a-vis Cicero. If that were the case, then it would be some vestige of the old territorial boss template (as Villain has speculated), with Vena boss of the North/Northwest and Inendino boss over Cicero/the Southside but with smaller sub-crews in EP and Chinatown.

Nice thinking regarding the smaller sub-crews

[Villain]

Throughout this timeline in the 90's -early 2000's, one thing I didn't address is the role of Lombardo. I do not have enough information to have really any theory on whether he was a boss on the top level equal with difronzo, a consigliere, or simply the capo of Grand Ave.

Lots of mysteries for sure.

My opinion is that DiFronzo and Lombardo played a similar role as Ricca and Accardo, although if DiFronzo took a step back than its possible that Lombardo took Accardos previous role as top elder. The semi-retired position was next to the top boss and was always reserved for freshly released high level members or high members who had to take a step back out of various reasons

[Patrickgold]

Throughout this timeline in the 90's -early 2000's, one thing I didn't address is the role of Lombardo. I do not have enough information to have really any theory on whether he was a boss on the top level equal with difronzo, a consigliere, or simply the capo of Grand Ave.

Lots of mysteries for sure.

My opinion is that DiFronzo and Lombardo played a similar role as Ricca and Accardo, although if DiFronzo took a step back than its possible that Lombardo took Accardos previous role as top elder. The semi-retired position was next to the top boss and was always reserved for freshly released high level members or high members who had to take a step back out of various reasons

Lombardo was supposedly still collecting tribute from other members and associates. The son of Michael Spilotro claims that Sam Destephano was extorting his moms nightclub on rush street for Lombardo. Also, Schweihs was still extorting adult businesses up until he got indicted.

[Villain]

Throughout this timeline in the 90's -early 2000's, one thing I didn't address is the role of Lombardo. I do not have enough information to have really any theory on whether he was a boss on the top level equal with difronzo, a consigliere, or simply the capo of Grand Ave.

Lots of mysteries for sure.

My opinion is that DiFronzo and Lombardo played a similar role as Ricca and Accardo, although if DiFronzo took a step back than its possible that Lombardo took Accardos previous role as top elder. The semi-retired position was next to the top boss and was always reserved for freshly released high level members or high members who had to take a step back out of various reasons

Lombardo was supposedly still collecting tribute from other members and associates. The son of Michael Spilotro claims that Sam Destephano was extorting his moms nightclub on rush street for Lombardo. Also, Schweihs was still extorting adult businesses up until he got indicted.

Thats right, according to one informant, the semi-retired position was mostly invented for those same high level members so they can make more money. In fact, that same position can be shared by 2 or 3 high level individuals at the same time and all of those guys can receive tribute...like during the late 40s and early 50s when there used be more than few top level guys freshly released from prison and others who took a step back out of various reasons...also some say that both Lombardo and LaPietra shared that same position during the 90s.

Dont forget that Lombardo was never the boss of the Outfit, nor the underboss...before going to prison, the highest spot that he ever reached was the capo position, meaning the semi-retired and advisory spot fits perfectly for him, but not the top boss spot since that same position was reserved only for members who were previously bosses or chief executives, obviously if that same spot was vacant at the time, like in the Ricca/Accardo situation that occurred in 1972 or when Ricca died and Accardo replaced him as the top boss

[Confederate]

Throughout this timeline in the 90's -early 2000's, one thing I didn't address is the role of Lombardo. I do not have enough information to have really any theory on whether he was a boss on the top level equal with difronzo, a consigliere, or simply the capo of Grand Ave.

Lots of mysteries for sure.

My opinion is that DiFronzo and Lombardo played a similar role as Ricca and Accardo, although if DiFronzo took a step back than its possible that Lombardo took Accardos previous role as top elder. The semi-retired position was next to the top boss and was always reserved for freshly released high level members or high members who had to take a step back out of various reasons

Lombardo was supposedly still collecting tribute from other members and associates. The son of Michael Spilotro claims that Sam Destephano was extorting his moms nightclub on rush street for Lombardo. Also, Schweihs was still extorting adult businesses up until he got indicted.

If you are referring to "Mad Sam", his name was spelled "Sam DeStefano". Also, what is your source for saying that Lombardo was still collecting tribute from members & associates?

[Patrickgold]

Throughout this timeline in the 90's -early 2000's, one thing I didn't address is the role of Lombardo. I do not have enough information to have really any theory on whether he was a boss on the top level equal with difronzo, a consigliere, or simply the capo of Grand Ave.

Lots of mysteries for sure.

My opinion is that DiFronzo and Lombardo played a similar role as Ricca and Accardo, although if DiFronzo took a step back than its possible that Lombardo took Accardos previous role as top elder. The semi-retired position was next to the top boss and was always reserved for freshly released high level members or high members who had to take a step back out of various reasons

Lombardo was supposedly still collecting tribute from other members and associates. The son of Michael Spilotro claims that Sam Destephano was extorting his moms nightclub on rush street for Lombardo. Also, Schweihs was still extorting adult businesses up until he got indicted.

If you are referring to "Mad Sam", his name was spelled "Sam DeStefano". Also, what is your source for saying that Lombardo was still collecting tribute from members & associates?

Mad Sam died in the 1970s. The Sam Destefano I’m talking about is his nephew and is still alive. Got arrested with Schiro and Hanhardt. Thanks for pointing out that I spelled his name wrong. I’m sure nobody knew who I was talking about bc I put a ph instead of a f.

Did you read my post? Mike Spilotro Jr said Sam Destefano was giving Lombardo tribute from extortion. Or does that not count bc the FBI didn’t say that?

[Confederate]

Throughout this timeline in the 90's -early 2000's, one thing I didn't address is the role of Lombardo. I do not have enough information to have really any theory on whether he was a boss on the top level equal with difronzo, a consigliere, or simply the capo of Grand Ave.

Lots of mysteries for sure.

My opinion is that DiFronzo and Lombardo played a similar role as Ricca and Accardo, although if DiFronzo took a step back than its possible that Lombardo took Accardos previous role as top elder. The semi-retired position was next to the top boss and was always reserved for freshly released high level members or high members who had to take a step back out of various reasons

Lombardo was supposedly still collecting tribute from other members and associates. The son of Michael Spilotro claims that Sam Destephano was extorting his moms nightclub on rush street for Lombardo. Also, Schweihs was still extorting adult businesses up until he got indicted.

If you are referring to "Mad Sam", his name was spelled "Sam DeStefano". Also, what is your source for saying that Lombardo was still collecting tribute from members & associates?

Mad Sam died in the 1970s. The Sam Destefano I’m talking about is his nephew and is still alive. Got arrested with Schiro and Hanhardt. Thanks for pointing out that I spelled his name wrong. I’m sure nobody knew who I was talking about bc I put a ph instead of a f.

Did you read my post? Mike Spilotro Jr said Sam Destefano was giving Lombardo tribute from extortion. Or does that not count bc the FBI didn’t say that?

He wouldn't know if Sam DeStefano Jr. or anybody else was "giving" tribute to Lombardo. The last thing Lombardo wanted was to die in prison taking some petty tribute from "extortion". Lombardo was very close with DiFronzo & also very wealthy. All people close to DiFronzo backed away from the Outfit including him. Lombardo needed the Outfit in the early 2000's like he needed a hole in his head. The problem was that he was unlucky & got convicted for a murder he committed a long time ago.

[Villain]

Throughout this timeline in the 90's -early 2000's, one thing I didn't address is the role of Lombardo. I do not have enough information to have really any theory on whether he was a boss on the top level equal with difronzo, a consigliere, or simply the capo of Grand Ave.

Lots of mysteries for sure.

My opinion is that DiFronzo and Lombardo played a similar role as Ricca and Accardo, although if DiFronzo took a step back than its possible that Lombardo took Accardos previous role as top elder. The semi-retired position was next to the top boss and was always reserved for freshly released high level members or high members who had to take a step back out of various reasons

Lombardo was supposedly still collecting tribute from other members and associates. The son of Michael Spilotro claims that Sam Destephano was extorting his moms nightclub on rush street for Lombardo. Also, Schweihs was still extorting adult businesses up until he got indicted.

If you are referring to "Mad Sam", his name was spelled "Sam DeStefano". Also, what is your source for saying that Lombardo was still collecting tribute from members & associates?

Mad Sam died in the 1970s. The Sam Destefano I’m talking about is his nephew and is still alive. Got arrested with Schiro and Hanhardt. Thanks for pointing out that I spelled his name wrong. I’m sure nobody knew who I was talking about bc I put a ph instead of a f.

Did you read my post? Mike Spilotro Jr said Sam Destefano was giving Lombardo tribute from extortion. Or does that not count bc the FBI didn’t say that?

He wouldn't know if Sam DeStefano Jr. or anybody else was "giving" tribute to Lombardo. The last thing Lombardo wanted was to die in prison taking some petty tribute from "extortion". Lombardo was very close with DiFronzo & also very wealthy. All people close to DiFronzo backed away from the Outfit including him. Lombardo needed the Outfit in the early 2000's like he needed a hole in his head. The problem was that he was unlucky & got convicted for a murder he committed a long time ago.

Theres no question that Lombardo was quite unlucky in the end

[Patrickgold]

Mike Jr and his mother both claim that Destefano was extorting her for Lombardo. He has the entire story on how it happened. They knew Lombardo very well. Mike Spilotro Sr And his family were very close to Lombardo. I’m going to take there word over an assumption saying there is no way because he would do that bc he didn’t want to go to jail. Frank Schweihs was also extorting adult businesses until the day he was indicted. Schweihs and Lombardo worked together is the past. Not saying Schweihs definitely gave him portions of that but it’s possible. I don’t know how wealthy Lombardo was but after spending 12 years in prison most mobster rightfully believe they are entitled to benefits. Lombardo was very close to Difronzo? That’s the first I hearing that. Never seen them together in a picture. Even if they were close, Difronzo may have been the figure head boss but he was not giving orders to Lombardo. Lombardo was way above Difronzo when he went to jail. When he came out Difronzo was on trial.

[PolackTony]

Mike Jr and his mother both claim that Destefano was extorting her for Lombardo. He has the entire story on how it happened. They knew Lombardo very well. Mike Spilotro Sr And his family were very close to Lombardo. I’m going to take there word over an assumption saying there is no way because he would do that bc he didn’t want to go to jail. Frank Schweihs was also extorting adult businesses until the day he was indicted. Schweihs and Lombardo worked together is the past. Not saying Schweihs definitely gave him portions of that but it’s possible. I don’t know how wealthy Lombardo was but after spending 12 years in prison most mobster rightfully believe they are entitled to benefits. Lombardo was very close to Difronzo? That’s the first I hearing that. Never seen them together in a picture. Even if they were close, Difronzo may have been the figure head boss but he was not giving orders to Lombardo. Lombardo was way above Difronzo when he went to jail. When he came out Difronzo was on trial.

John Hagedorn also recounts testimony from his informants that Lombardo (referred to as the "Old Man") was still overseeing rackets for Grand Ave in the 90's after his release from prison. These informants claimed that Lombardo was responsible for approving and directing Grand Ave's project with the C-Notes and Spanish Cobras in this period.

I can personally tell you that I still saw him holding court at the HSAC after his release, so not doing a great job of distancing himself. Maybe he was just there for the cigars.

[Confederate]

I can personally tell you that I still saw him holding court at the HSAC after his release, so not doing a great job of distancing himself. Maybe he was just there for the cigars.

When Lombardo was released, he was on parole. If he were to be seen "holding court" with other Outfit guys he would have violated his parole & gone back to prison. So, if you saw him "holding Court" after his release, right out in the open, then the Feds would have seen him & he would have been sent back to prison.

[Patrickgold]

I can personally tell you that I still saw him holding court at the HSAC after his release, so not doing a great job of distancing himself. Maybe he was just there for the cigars.

When Lombardo was released, he was on parole. If he were to be seen "holding court" with other Outfit guys he would have violated his parole & gone back to prison. So, if you saw him "holding Court" after his release, right out in the open, then the Feds would have seen him & he would have been sent back to prison.

Not sure of when he got off parole but it ended sometime way before he was indicted. Also, person has to be a convicted felon, hence why he was having Spina, who is a top member now, drive him around. No way Cozzo would not be kicking money to him after his release