General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

As a brief aside, the following individuals died before ever "officially" being recognized as "made members" by the FBI, although all of them have a reasonably high chance of being classified as such (excepting perhaps Imparato):

Michael Glitta
Salvatore Gruttadauro
Angelo Imparato
Lee Magnafichi

If I find evidence that any of these individuals (or others not listed above) are posthumously identified as "LCN members" I will go back and revise previous versions of the list. I want to make sure that everything in this thread is documented or confirmed! Antilliar also had some good suggestions above that one could reasonably classify as "made" during the specified time period. I am still digging so this will definitely be an ongoing project.

These are very clear and well-supported posts. Thanks, this is really useful.

[Villain]

I think Fred Roti is missing from the 1989 list...he was confirmed as member during the previous decades

[PolackTony]

I think Fred Roti is missing from the 1989 list...he was confirmed as member during the previous decades

Good call. Also, we never got this level of confirmation for Joey Andriacchi being made? Same for Jimmy Boy Cozzo? I know people who insist he was never made, which seems highly unlikely to me.

[Snakes]

I think Fred Roti is missing from the 1989 list...he was confirmed as member during the previous decades

Good call. Also, we never got this level of confirmation for Joey Andriacchi being made? Same for Jimmy Boy Cozzo? I know people who insist he was never made, which seems highly unlikely to me.

I am trying to find official FBI files that explicitly state someone is made before including them on this list. I'm sure that there is info out there on a lot of guys, but I am slowly working my way through it. I know I have something that has Andriacchi's name unredacted and cites him as a member I just haven't dug it up, yet.

[Wiseguy]

In the Summer of 1982, the FBI implemented major revisions in how they determined LCN members.

One of the reasons why I give a lot more weight to FBI estimates (and intel in general) from the 1980s and on.

[Villain]

More than 90% of the guys who ran the Outfit during the 40s 50s and 60s, were dead by the early 80s and the organization became much smaller by that time, and so the feds obviously had to do a revision. I dont think it has much to do with the quality of intel but instead they had to make a distinction between the new players. On top.of that, during the 80s they began using rituals during ceremonies and so the feds also had to change that info from their previous memos since none of that ever happened before.

[Snakes]

More than 90% of the guys who ran the Outfit during the 40s 50s and 60s, were dead by the early 80s and the organization became much smaller by that time, and so the feds obviously had to do a revision. I dont think it has much to do with the quality of intel but instead they had to make a distinction between the new players

It doesn't appear that the intel was more or less valued, only that they tightened the requirements on how they determined made men. Previously, they may have accepted at face value an associate or lower level informant describing someone as made but as it became increasingly more important to prove the membership of LCN guys in court they had to ensure a more accurate method of classification.

[Villain]

More than 90% of the guys who ran the Outfit during the 40s 50s and 60s, were dead by the early 80s and the organization became much smaller by that time, and so the feds obviously had to do a revision. I dont think it has much to do with the quality of intel but instead they had to make a distinction between the new players

It doesn't appear that the intel was more or less valued, only that they tightened the requirements on how they determined made men. Previously, they may have accepted at face value an associate or lower level informant describing someone as made but as it became increasingly more important to prove the membership of LCN guys in court they had to ensure a more accurate method of classification.

I agree and ive already edited my previous post by also adding this...On top.of that, during the 80s they began using rituals during ceremonies and so the feds also had to change that info from their previous memos since none of that ever happened before.

[Snakes]

More than 90% of the guys who ran the Outfit during the 40s 50s and 60s, were dead by the early 80s and the organization became much smaller by that time, and so the feds obviously had to do a revision. I dont think it has much to do with the quality of intel but instead they had to make a distinction between the new players

It doesn't appear that the intel was more or less valued, only that they tightened the requirements on how they determined made men. Previously, they may have accepted at face value an associate or lower level informant describing someone as made but as it became increasingly more important to prove the membership of LCN guys in court they had to ensure a more accurate method of classification.

I agree and ive already edited my previous post by also adding this...On top.of that, during the 80s they began using rituals during ceremonies and so the feds also had to change that info from their previous memos since none of that ever happened before.

I'm not sure if the Chicago FBI did anything differently as far as that was concerned (I don't think they really cared as long as they could point to someone and say, "he is a member") but this was a nationwide FBI initiative to better and more accurately document the number of members in each family. Sorry, not sure if I clearly mentioned that in the first post.

[Villain]

More than 90% of the guys who ran the Outfit during the 40s 50s and 60s, were dead by the early 80s and the organization became much smaller by that time, and so the feds obviously had to do a revision. I dont think it has much to do with the quality of intel but instead they had to make a distinction between the new players

It doesn't appear that the intel was more or less valued, only that they tightened the requirements on how they determined made men. Previously, they may have accepted at face value an associate or lower level informant describing someone as made but as it became increasingly more important to prove the membership of LCN guys in court they had to ensure a more accurate method of classification.

I agree and ive already edited my previous post by also adding this...On top.of that, during the 80s they began using rituals during ceremonies and so the feds also had to change that info from their previous memos since none of that ever happened before.

I'm not sure if the Chicago FBI did anything differently as far as that was concerned (I don't think they really cared as long as they could point to someone and say, "he is a member") but this was a nationwide initiative to better and more accurately document the number of members in each family. Sorry, not sure if I clearly mentioned that in the first post.

Its ok, i understood. But dont forget that previously we also had some made guys describing the hierarchy and on who was who, and also the induction processes....im talking about the 60s

[Snakes]

More than 90% of the guys who ran the Outfit during the 40s 50s and 60s, were dead by the early 80s and the organization became much smaller by that time, and so the feds obviously had to do a revision. I dont think it has much to do with the quality of intel but instead they had to make a distinction between the new players

It doesn't appear that the intel was more or less valued, only that they tightened the requirements on how they determined made men. Previously, they may have accepted at face value an associate or lower level informant describing someone as made but as it became increasingly more important to prove the membership of LCN guys in court they had to ensure a more accurate method of classification.

I agree and ive already edited my previous post by also adding this...On top.of that, during the 80s they began using rituals during ceremonies and so the feds also had to change that info from their previous memos since none of that ever happened before.

I'm not sure if the Chicago FBI did anything differently as far as that was concerned (I don't think they really cared as long as they could point to someone and say, "he is a member") but this was a nationwide initiative to better and more accurately document the number of members in each family. Sorry, not sure if I clearly mentioned that in the first post.

Its ok, i understood. But dont forget that previously we also had some made guys describing the hierarchy and on who was who, and also the induction processes....im talking about the 60s

Oh, for sure, but I think they wanted to distill that information from the less accurate information. After all, they still used some of that old intelligence to develop their initial lists.

[Villain]

More than 90% of the guys who ran the Outfit during the 40s 50s and 60s, were dead by the early 80s and the organization became much smaller by that time, and so the feds obviously had to do a revision. I dont think it has much to do with the quality of intel but instead they had to make a distinction between the new players

It doesn't appear that the intel was more or less valued, only that they tightened the requirements on how they determined made men. Previously, they may have accepted at face value an associate or lower level informant describing someone as made but as it became increasingly more important to prove the membership of LCN guys in court they had to ensure a more accurate method of classification.

I agree and ive already edited my previous post by also adding this...On top.of that, during the 80s they began using rituals during ceremonies and so the feds also had to change that info from their previous memos since none of that ever happened before.

I'm not sure if the Chicago FBI did anything differently as far as that was concerned (I don't think they really cared as long as they could point to someone and say, "he is a member") but this was a nationwide initiative to better and more accurately document the number of members in each family. Sorry, not sure if I clearly mentioned that in the first post.

Its ok, i understood. But dont forget that previously we also had some made guys describing the hierarchy and on who was who, and also the induction processes....im talking about the 60s

Oh, for sure, but I think they wanted to distill that information from the less accurate information. After all, they still used some of that old intelligence to develop their initial lists.

I agree again. Keep up the good work

[Antiliar]

Since so much time has passed maybe you can request a reprocessing to reduce the retractions. Obvious candidates are Anthony Centracchio, Louis Eboli, John DiFronzo, Lee Magnafichi, Joseph Andriacchi, Sam Carlisi, Rocco Infelise, Al Tornabene, and many others who were certainly made by late 1985.

Antilliar, see my next post. Great minds think alike, although I want to identify as many as possible before asking for a reprocessing.

Good deal, Snakes. The feds continued to learn about pre-1985 made members after this list was made so we know it's far from complete.

I don't know if this helps or not, but in this link to a statement from former FBI agent Peter Wacks, he says the FBI identified Andriacchi as an LCN member: http://www.ipsn.org/rosemont/wacks_affi ... ephens.htm

On page 14 of 119 it lists Andriacchi's file number:
https://archive.org/stream/RichardCain/ ... andriacchi

This article refers to a 1999 FBI surveillance mentioning Andriacchi:
https://www.ocweekly.com/dirty-stupid-or-both-6371980/

[PolackTony]

I think Fred Roti is missing from the 1989 list...he was confirmed as member during the previous decades

Good call. Also, we never got this level of confirmation for Joey Andriacchi being made? Same for Jimmy Boy Cozzo? I know people who insist he was never made, which seems highly unlikely to me.

I am trying to find official FBI files that explicitly state someone is made before including them on this list. I'm sure that there is info out there on a lot of guys, but I am slowly working my way through it. I know I have something that has Andriacchi's name unredacted and cites him as a member I just haven't dug it up, yet.

Thanks for confirming that the Feds had Joey A as a member. So I should assume you've never seen Cozzo listed?

[Snakes]

I think Fred Roti is missing from the 1989 list...he was confirmed as member during the previous decades

Good call. Also, we never got this level of confirmation for Joey Andriacchi being made? Same for Jimmy Boy Cozzo? I know people who insist he was never made, which seems highly unlikely to me.

I am trying to find official FBI files that explicitly state someone is made before including them on this list. I'm sure that there is info out there on a lot of guys, but I am slowly working my way through it. I know I have something that has Andriacchi's name unredacted and cites him as a member I just haven't dug it up, yet.

Thanks for confirming that the Feds had Joey A as a member. So I should assume you've never seen Cozzo listed?

I will have to dig the one up on Andriacchi. It was a passing mention of him (that for some reason was not redacted) that described him along with Accardo, Cerone, and another redacted name (probably DiFronzo) meeting in 1984. The memo identified all as "LCN members."

The evidence against Cozzo stems from his ousting as a Teamsters official and member. In 1990, Peter Wacks, an FBI agent for more than 25 years, submitted an affidavit to the Investigations Officer stating that Cozzo was a "made member of the Chicago Outfit." What makes this interesting is that both Red Wemette and Fred Pascente stated that Cozzo wasn't made. However, Wemette was publicly revealed to be an informant in the late 80s so it is possible that Cozzo was made after Wemette provided his information. Pascente's only mention of Cozzo not being made was when describing him in the context of Richard Cain's death in 1973. It was very likely that Cozzo was not made at that point. If Wacks's information was accurate, the identification of Cozzo as "made" in 1990 holds more weight than Pascente's recalling of Cozzo's status more than fifteen years prior.

With all that said, I have yet to find confirmation of Cozzo's status in an actual file. This doesn't mean it isn't out there, only that I have yet to see it.