Getting permission to "Put together an administration."

[Angelo Santino]

Recently with DiLeonardo, he explained that Peter Gotti became AB in mid-1998 after visiting Springfield. Later on in 1999 is when Gotti Sr gave Pete permission to "put together an official administration." From 1991 until 1998 the Gambino Family was without an official underboss and Arcuri filled acting consig for several years in the mid 90's. Come to think of it, Gotti in 1986 didn't immediately replace DeCicco and Gallo, he put in place a panel of captains and only selected admin members after getting out of jail in 1987. (Kudos to Chin_Gigante)

I'm reminded of Philadelphia immediately after Scarfo who put a hold on rank and member replacements. It was only later when Piccolo became acting boss and Martirano became acting under. Or the Bonanno while Massino was away, Vitale didn't have the power to promote/demote captains. The argument provided in both the latter cases seemed to imply that to allow these changes would mean the boss isn't the boss anymore. It's something I'm going to have to ask DiLeonardo about but before I do I'd like to get more input.

This matters because, maybe in the Gambinos its a show of power and in 2011 when Peter Goti's panel ended and a new admin was formed, maybe that's when power unofficially began. Both John Gambino and Bart Vernace went on to compose the Cefalu acting admin... I could be totally wrong and maybe there's no correlation. It does vary by boss.

Drawing back to the Phila 1989 Scarfo edict. We know that bosses have given permission for captains to perform ceremonies which you'd think would be a bigger issue than internal promotions but seems not to be the case. Amazingly, Philadelphia's admin has changed very little since 1999, I believe Merlino and Mazzone and Ligambi kept their official positions throughout the 2000's. We know from the Stefanelli tapes that Ligambi's had the ability/permission to put together an acting administration as well as make members, with the authority to omit making members Merlino suggested, saying if he wants to make them he can do it when he comes home.

[Stroccos]

Recently with DiLeonardo, he explained that Peter Gotti became AB in mid-1998 after visiting Springfield. Later on in 1999 is when Gotti Sr gave Pete permission to "put together an official administration." From 1991 until 1998 the Gambino Family was without an official underboss and Arcuri filled acting consig for several years in the mid 90's. Come to think of it, Gotti in 1986 didn't immediately replace DeCicco and Gallo, he put in place a panel of captains and only selected admin members after getting out of jail in 1987. (Kudos to Chin_Gigante)

I'm reminded of Philadelphia immediately after Scarfo who put a hold on rank and member replacements. It was only later when Piccolo became acting boss and Martirano became acting under. Or the Bonanno while Massino was away, Vitale didn't have the power to promote/demote captains. The argument provided in both the latter cases seemed to imply that to allow these changes would mean the boss isn't the boss anymore. It's something I'm going to have to ask DiLeonardo about but before I do I'd like to get more input.

This matters because, maybe in the Gambinos its a show of power and in 2011 when Peter Goti's panel ended and a new admin was formed, maybe that's when power unofficially began. Both John Gambino and Bart Vernace went on to compose the Cefalu acting admin... I could be totally wrong and maybe there's no correlation. It does vary by boss.

Drawing back to the Phila 1989 Scarfo edict. We know that bosses have given permission for captains to perform ceremonies which you'd think would be a bigger issue than internal promotions but seems not to be the case. Amazingly, Philadelphia's admin has changed very little since 1999, I believe Merlino and Mazzone and Ligambi kept their official positions throughout the 2000's. We know from the Stefanelli tapes that Ligambi's had the ability/permission to put together an acting administration as well as make members, with the authority to omit making members Merlino suggested, saying if he wants to make them he can do it when he comes home.

well if you could demote the current captains and put in your own guys they be loyal to you not the old boss in jail

[Angelo Santino]

Gotti threatened Gallo with something very similar.

[chin_gigante]

What was it that Gotti said exactly? Something about breaking twenty captains, putting ten in, getting them to vote down Gallo as consigliere, then putting his old captains back in place?

[Angelo Santino]

What was it that Gotti said exactly? Something about breaking twenty captains, putting ten in, getting them to vote down Gallo as consigliere, then putting his old captains back in place?

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[moneyman]

Regarding the Gambino 2011 part,
Is the implication that Gambino and Vernace exerted more influence than Giardano or Marino, the other members on the panel?

I tend to discredit the present day Sicilian vs Gambino narrative, but this theory if true may give credence to it.

[Extortion]

Lol in this day and age i dont think you need permission anymore theres like 8 families left

[Frank]

Lol in this day and age i dont think you need permission anymore theres like 8 families left

He was referring to the acting boss of a family getting permission from the incarcerated official boss of the family to put together an administration. Not asking permission from the commission.

[B.]

What was it that Gotti said exactly? Something about breaking twenty captains, putting ten in, getting them to vote down Gallo as consigliere, then putting his old captains back in place?

mobstar.PNG

This shows that they still went through the motions of voting a consigliere in (and out) during the Gotti era, but unsurprisingly it could also be fixed behind the scenes (like many boss elections). I'm reminded too of the late 1970s tapes of Testa, Scarfo, Narducci, and Riccobene complaining about the post-Rugnetta consigliere election. Even though they were family leaders, they felt Bruno and a select other group of old timers were basically arranging the election as they saw fit without consulting them. Testa also asked Riccobene if he ever remembered a consigliere election with more than one candidate and he said no -- this was not an "innocent" question and answer, but an indication that Testa and Riccobene felt consigliere elections were rigged in that there was only one prearranged candidate to "vote" for.

Both Greg Scarpa and Stefano Magaddino said when a new boss takes over, all of the captains officially lose their rank and the boss must choose to re-appoint them or appoint others in their place. We know that in most cases a boss will keep many if not most of the captains in their previous positions, but in terms of formal protocol it appears the entire leadership becomes a blank slate when a new boss is elected. Scarpa mentioned this to the FBI when Joe Colombo took over, while Magaddino was recorded explaining how Joe Bonanno's captains lost their official rank when Joe Bonanno was deposed.

The underboss position would follow the same protocol, as he operates at the will of the boss. We know Castellano held a formal meeting where Dellacroce was confirmed as his underboss even though he already held the position under Gambino. This was partly out of respect for Dellacroce but it would have also been traditional protocol.

The consigliere is different because it is traditionally elected by the membership and is not (directly) appointed by the boss. Whether he was joking or making an empty threat or not, this is why Gotti said he would rearrange the captains to vote Gallo out, as he couldn't demote him directly. It's also telling, as we know the entire membership is supposed to have a vote in who becomes boss and consigliere, but we've heard of examples where captains basically make the decision on behalf of their entire decina.

Back to the original point of the thread, that's a very good example of the finer politics within mafia leadership. Bosses like Gotti, Massino, and Scarfo were all bosses of families prone to violent factionalism and this factored into their decision to decentralize power and limit official authority when they were in prison. In contrast, Carmine Persico gave Vic Orena full authority to order murders, induct members, and I believe even promote/demote captains and underbosses and we can see that Orena used this as an opportunity to attempt a full takeover. Gotti, Massino, and Scarfo were sharp mafia politicians no matter what their shortcomings were and these decisions weren't made arbitrarily.