Capone and the Mafia

[motorfab]

I know they were associates with the Gennas and other guys, but I always wondered if Anselmo & Scalise were made guys or if they were too burning heads to be

[Amershire_Ed]

I thought I saw Selwyn Raab say once that none of the Sicilians in Capone’s era looked at him as a mafioso. He wasn’t Sicilian, and apparently had no interest in any of the traditions and rules of the Sicilian mafia. They viewed him as a gangster that just happened to be Italian.

[Villain]

I know they were associates with the Gennas and other guys, but I always wondered if Anselmo & Scalise were made guys or if they were too burning heads to be

I dont have a clue about those two on whether they were made or not, although they were considered heavyweights for sure and their buddy Giunta was probably a made member, so who knows?!

[Confederate]

Villain, we're on the same page. I don't see anything that I disagree with.

Confederate, there were non-Sicilians made before 1931, but they were exceptional. I think guys like Albert Anastasia, Vito Genovese, and Willie Moretti were all made around 1923. Frank Yale was another. In 1916 Nick Terranova was killed while walking with Charles Ubriaco, who was Calabrese. It's very possible he was made too. Not saying that he was, but it's possible.

Did Masseria have control over the Unione Siciliani in Chicago? Who started the Union Sicilani in Chicago? Was there the Unione Siciliani in other Cities like Philly, Boston, etc. in 1919?

The Unione Siciliana (that's the correct name) was a fraternal organization created in Chicago in 1895, and soon expanded to sell insurance. It was not a criminal organization. The press confused things and used it as a synonym for the Mafia. It never was. There were stories that Ignazio Lupo was the national president of the Unione Siciliana, then Frankie Yale was. Except it didn't exist in New York. It only existed in four states: Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, and the fourth was either Ohio or Wisconsin (I forgot). It changed its name to the Italo-American National Union in 1925. It was founded by a group of people, not one person.

In 1907 it helped create the White Hand to fight the Black Hand, but it failed and the White Hand dissolved. Later, Mafia boss Tony D'Andrea became its national president - but that didn't mean the whole organization was part of the Mafia or criminal. Judge Bernard Barasa became its next national president. He wasn't Sicilian. In the 1930s Phil D'Andrea - Tony's nephew - headed the organization. I'm writing late and getting tired, so can't remember the next guy's name, but I believe he was an attorney who was a member of Aiuppa's crew. He died in a plane crash later. Joseph somebody. Later it was merged with the Italian Sons & Daughters of American, and after that, the Sons of Italy.

Thank you, Good overall explanation. Now, if the Unione Sicliana was not really the Mafia in Chicago before 1931, who was the Mafia In Chicago at that time? Why would Capone pay any money to an organization that wasn't the Mafia? Why would Joe Masseria in New York even care about the Union Siciliana if it wasn't the Mafia?

[Antiliar]

If Al Capone paid any money to the Italo-American National Union (IANU), it was annual dues money. He paid tribute to the Chicago Mafia. Anthony D'Andrea was the Chicago Mafia boss from 1914 to 1921, and was also the national head of the Unione Siciliana from around 1919 to his death. The head of the Chicago Mafia after him was Mike Merlo, then Tony Lombardo (with Angelo Genna trying to take over, and allegedly Sam Ammatuna), then Lolordo, Giunta, Aiello, and LoVerde. Capone was recognized as the Chicago Cosa Nostra rappresentante by Salvatore Maranzano in 1931, and LoVerde was either demoted to soldier or shelved, and then killed.

[Antiliar]

In 1907 it helped create the White Hand to fight the Black Hand, but it failed and the White Hand dissolved. Later, Mafia boss Tony D'Andrea became its national president - but that didn't mean the whole organization was part of the Mafia or criminal. Judge Bernard Barasa became its next national president. He wasn't Sicilian. In the 1930s Phil D'Andrea - Tony's nephew - headed the organization. I'm writing late and getting tired, so can't remember the next guy's name, but I believe he was an attorney who was a member of Aiuppa's crew. He died in a plane crash later. Joseph somebody. Later it was merged with the Italian Sons & Daughters of American, and after that, the Sons of Italy.

Imburgio or something like that ? .....the guy whose name was used as an alias during the Hollywood case or while the bosses were in prison?

Yes, Joseph Imburgio.

[Villain]

Villain, we're on the same page. I don't see anything that I disagree with.

Confederate, there were non-Sicilians made before 1931, but they were exceptional. I think guys like Albert Anastasia, Vito Genovese, and Willie Moretti were all made around 1923. Frank Yale was another. In 1916 Nick Terranova was killed while walking with Charles Ubriaco, who was Calabrese. It's very possible he was made too. Not saying that he was, but it's possible.

Did Masseria have control over the Unione Siciliani in Chicago? Who started the Union Sicilani in Chicago? Was there the Unione Siciliani in other Cities like Philly, Boston, etc. in 1919?

The Unione Siciliana (that's the correct name) was a fraternal organization created in Chicago in 1895, and soon expanded to sell insurance. It was not a criminal organization. The press confused things and used it as a synonym for the Mafia. It never was. There were stories that Ignazio Lupo was the national president of the Unione Siciliana, then Frankie Yale was. Except it didn't exist in New York. It only existed in four states: Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, and the fourth was either Ohio or Wisconsin (I forgot). It changed its name to the Italo-American National Union in 1925. It was founded by a group of people, not one person.

In 1907 it helped create the White Hand to fight the Black Hand, but it failed and the White Hand dissolved. Later, Mafia boss Tony D'Andrea became its national president - but that didn't mean the whole organization was part of the Mafia or criminal. Judge Bernard Barasa became its next national president. He wasn't Sicilian. In the 1930s Phil D'Andrea - Tony's nephew - headed the organization. I'm writing late and getting tired, so can't remember the next guy's name, but I believe he was an attorney who was a member of Aiuppa's crew. He died in a plane crash later. Joseph somebody. Later it was merged with the Italian Sons & Daughters of American, and after that, the Sons of Italy.

Thank you, Good overall explanation. Now, if the Unione Sicliana was not really the Mafia in Chicago before 1931, who was the Mafia In Chicago at that time? Why would Capone pay any money to an organization that wasn't the Mafia? Why would Joe Masseria in New York even care about the Union Siciliana if it wasn't the Mafia?

There was a Mafia in Chicago, while the Unione Siciliana was important regarding the control over the Italian vote

[Villain]

In 1907 it helped create the White Hand to fight the Black Hand, but it failed and the White Hand dissolved. Later, Mafia boss Tony D'Andrea became its national president - but that didn't mean the whole organization was part of the Mafia or criminal. Judge Bernard Barasa became its next national president. He wasn't Sicilian. In the 1930s Phil D'Andrea - Tony's nephew - headed the organization. I'm writing late and getting tired, so can't remember the next guy's name, but I believe he was an attorney who was a member of Aiuppa's crew. He died in a plane crash later. Joseph somebody. Later it was merged with the Italian Sons & Daughters of American, and after that, the Sons of Italy.

Imburgio or something like that ? .....the guy whose name was used as an alias during the Hollywood case or while the bosses were in prison?

Yes, Joseph Imburgio.

Thanks. He had an alias like Bulger or somethin...

[Confederate]

If Al Capone paid any money to the Italo-American National Union (IANU), it was annual dues money. He paid tribute to the Chicago Mafia. Anthony D'Andrea was the Chicago Mafia boss from 1914 to 1921, and was also the national head of the Unione Siciliana from around 1919 to his death. The head of the Chicago Mafia after him was Mike Merlo, then Tony Lombardo (with Angelo Genna trying to take over, and allegedly Sam Ammatuna), then Lolordo, Giunta, Aiello, and LoVerde. Capone was recognized as the Chicago Cosa Nostra rappresentante by Salvatore Maranzano in 1931, and LoVerde was either demoted to soldier or shelved, and then killed.

How many Mafia Groups were there in Chicago before 1931? That's the confusing part. Can you name them & where approximately they operated.
Thanks.

[Antiliar]

In 1907 it helped create the White Hand to fight the Black Hand, but it failed and the White Hand dissolved. Later, Mafia boss Tony D'Andrea became its national president - but that didn't mean the whole organization was part of the Mafia or criminal. Judge Bernard Barasa became its next national president. He wasn't Sicilian. In the 1930s Phil D'Andrea - Tony's nephew - headed the organization. I'm writing late and getting tired, so can't remember the next guy's name, but I believe he was an attorney who was a member of Aiuppa's crew. He died in a plane crash later. Joseph somebody. Later it was merged with the Italian Sons & Daughters of American, and after that, the Sons of Italy.

Imburgio or something like that ? .....the guy whose name was used as an alias during the Hollywood case or while the bosses were in prison?

Yes, Joseph Imburgio.

Thanks. He had an alias like Bulger or somethin...

If I recall correctly he legally changed his name.

[Antiliar]

If Al Capone paid any money to the Italo-American National Union (IANU), it was annual dues money. He paid tribute to the Chicago Mafia. Anthony D'Andrea was the Chicago Mafia boss from 1914 to 1921, and was also the national head of the Unione Siciliana from around 1919 to his death. The head of the Chicago Mafia after him was Mike Merlo, then Tony Lombardo (with Angelo Genna trying to take over, and allegedly Sam Ammatuna), then Lolordo, Giunta, Aiello, and LoVerde. Capone was recognized as the Chicago Cosa Nostra rappresentante by Salvatore Maranzano in 1931, and LoVerde was either demoted to soldier or shelved, and then killed.

How many Mafia Groups were there in Chicago before 1931? That's the confusing part. Can you name them & where approximately they operated.
Thanks.

Only one in the city of Chicago that I'm aware of. Are you talking about crews? We only have speculation for that.

[Confederate]

If Al Capone paid any money to the Italo-American National Union (IANU), it was annual dues money. He paid tribute to the Chicago Mafia. Anthony D'Andrea was the Chicago Mafia boss from 1914 to 1921, and was also the national head of the Unione Siciliana from around 1919 to his death. The head of the Chicago Mafia after him was Mike Merlo, then Tony Lombardo (with Angelo Genna trying to take over, and allegedly Sam Ammatuna), then Lolordo, Giunta, Aiello, and LoVerde. Capone was recognized as the Chicago Cosa Nostra rappresentante by Salvatore Maranzano in 1931, and LoVerde was either demoted to soldier or shelved, and then killed.

How many Mafia Groups were there in Chicago before 1931? That's the confusing part. Can you name them & where approximately they operated.
Thanks.

Only one in the city of Chicago that I'm aware of. Are you talking about crews? We only have speculation for that.

So, Capone paid a tribute to a that one Mafia Boss in Chicago who was connected to Masseria? Is that correct?

[Antiliar]

No. Tony Lombardo told Capone to STOP giving tribute to Joe Masseria in New York since he wasn't a made member. Then Capone was "whistled in" to New York and Masseria made him a member and a capodecina with the ability to make ten soldiers. He would continue to pay tribute to Masseria, but now he was "kicking up." Masseria told him he would recognize him as the Chicago boss if he killed Lombardo, so he did.

When Capone was made, then AND ONLY THEN there were two Mafia Families operating in Chicago. The regular Chicago Mafia, and the Capone crew of the Masseria Family. This was only for around 2 1/2 years though and was an exception.

[Confederate]

No. Tony Lombardo told Capone to STOP giving tribute to Joe Masseria in New York since he wasn't a made member. Then Capone was "whistled in" to New York and Masseria made him a member and a capodecina with the ability to make ten soldiers. He would continue to pay tribute to Masseria, but now he was "kicking up." Masseria told him he would recognize him as the Chicago boss if he killed Lombardo, so he did.

When Capone was made, then AND ONLY THEN there were two Mafia Families operating in Chicago. The regular Chicago Mafia, and the Capone crew of the Masseria Family. This was only for around 2 1/2 years though and was an exception.

That is very interesting. Thank you. Masseria must have know that Capone would make a lot more than 10 men. It wasn't LIMITED to ten. Correct?
I thought Capone was simply "accepted" into the National LCN IN 1931 by Luciano since Capone was so powerful anyway. I didn't realize the actual Mafia connection BEFORE 1931. Did Capone eventually turn against Masseria? Did he know Luciano was going to kill Masseria?

[Pogo The Clown]

I thought Chicago Heights was its own family before being absorbed?


Pogo