"Patsy" (Donnie Brasco)

[Pogo The Clown]

So the FBI told him lie about Pistone being proposed in 1981? To what purpose?


Pogo

[bert]

So the FBI told him lie about Pistone being proposed in 1981? To what purpose?


Pogo

To help and not hurt their image. They had long ago put out the story of pulling Pistone out of things due to fear he was going to be made. Pistone had backed the story up. If Massino says it's untrue, they look like fools for lying.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Bert, some sincere advice, post less.

[cosanostra101]

Here is Capeci's gangland report on Massino's testimony that includes Joe Pistone. Sounds like Pistone work was a bit of a stretch. I wonder if someone on here has Massino's testimony.

is Week In Gang Land April 14, 2011
By Jerry Capeci
Massino: As Mafia Boss I Had The Power Of Life & Death
A Gang Land Exclusive
Siskel and Ebert gave Donnie Brasco “two thumbs up.” But when a prosecutor asked Joseph Massino for his take on the classic gangster movie, he grimaced and held his hand in front of his face. Then he wiggled his fingers back and forth in that shaky motion that most closely translates as “Mezza-mezza.” Or perhaps, “Eh.”
“Objection!” thundered the defense attorney. “Sustained,” said the judge, ending Joe Massino’s career as movie reviewer.
Jurors were instructed to ignore this part of Massino’s historic appearance as the first official New York Mafia boss to testify for the government – in this case, against a fellow former Bonanno crime family big, onetime acting boss Vincent (Vinny Gorgeous)Basciano.
Thankfully, Gang Land is not required to adhere to the trial judge’s admonitions. For that matter, it’s hard to fathom how jurors will get it out of their heads since Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis was forced to repeat the shaky hand motion when he ruled it off-limits. At any rate, let it be officially recorded here that the first movie review by an ex-mob chieftain delivered from the witness stand was “No Stars!”
Not that the 68-year-old Massino lacked for insight about the inner-workings of the Bonanno family of that era. In fact, he is presumably better-equipped than anyone to pass judgment on the accuracy of the big-screen portrayal of FBI agent Joe Pistone’s undercover work against the crime family from 1976-to-1981.
In any event, once his movie review was over, the burly ex-Mafia boss proceeded to deliver several new revelations, each of which partially explained why he might think the movie version of the Brasco affair was no great shakes.
First, he debunked a long-held theory that a pair of mob murders of that era stemmed from anger at mobsters who were hoodwinked by the FBI agent. Under questioning by assistant U.S. attorney Taryn Merkl, Massino said that he was “made” on June 14, 1977 – a year after Pistone began his undercover role – and learned about the agent’s work soon after the FBI disclosed it in the summer of 1981 to Dominick (Sonny Black) Napolitano, the wiseguy who wanted to sponsor Pistone for induction.
Contrary to what prosecutors alleged at Massino’s 2004 trial – and what was implied in the 1997 movie – Sonny Black’s murder in August of 1981, a month after the feds pulled the plug on Pistone’s sting operation, was not payback for Napolitano’s role in vouching for Donnie Brasco, the jewel thief that Pistone pretended to be for five years.
Massino said that Sonny Black had told him that three FBI agents had alerted Napolitano that the “knock-around guy” he had known for several years as “Donnie Brasco” was really an FBI agent. Napolitano said the agents warned him that “if anything happens to [Brasco], we’re going to have a lot of trouble,” said Massino, adding that Napolitano’s sudden problems were unrelated to the Brasco fiasco.
Sonny Black Napolitano and undercover FBI Agent Joe Pistone“Sonny Black threatened to make a move on the family,” said Massino, recalling that he took part in the slaying and was part of a three-capo panel that was running the crime family for then-imprisoned boss Philip (Rusty) Rastelli that authorized the rubout. (Sonny Black looks into the camera as he and "Donnie Brasco" catch some rays at a Florida pool in 1980.)
Massino also dismissed reports that the demise of Bonanno wiseguy Anthony Mirra, whose February 1982 murder was long linked to his own Donnie Brasco dealings, was related to Pistone’s undercover work. Instead, Massino testified, that slaying stemmed from a belief that Mirra, a longtime drug dealer had become a secret “cooperator for the DEA.”
Massino, who is expected to face stiff cross-examination today about his assertion that Basciano ordered the 2004 murder of mob associate Randolph Pizzolo, stressed during his direct testimony that he was an all-powerful crime boss who had the power of life and death over wiseguys years before he took over the crime family in 1991.
He also explained the rationale behind another mob rubout: Disrespect. While he was on the lam in 1984 – ducking trial for the murders of three capos in 1981 – Massino said he learned from Rastelli’s brother and his own brother-in-law Salvatore Vitale, who was then a capo, that Rastelli was planning to whack Cesare Bonventre, a member of the family’s Sicilian faction who had extorted about $600,000 from a drug dealer who was close to Rastelli.
When Bonventre was called on the carpet about it by Rastelli, (right) not only did he deny the allegation, “he got insulted” by the inquiry and “got up and walked away,’ without so much as a polite good bye to his already steaming Mafia boss.
“You can’t do that with bosses,” said Massino. “That’s why he died.”
Rastelli also wanted to whack Bonventre’s long time buddy and partner in the crime and the insult, Baldo Amato – the duo played key roles in the 1979 rubout of wannabe Bonanno boss Carmine (Lilo) Galante – but Massino thought that was a bad idea, he testified.
“I saved him,” he said. “I sent word to the old man. I said, ‘Listen, he’s listening to his captain. We can’t just keep going on killing and killing and killing. He’s following orders just like I follow orders.’ He said, ‘You’re right,’ and he gave him a pass.”
Randolph PizzoloYesterday, prosecutors played tape recordings of jailhouse talks that Massino had with Vinny Gorgeous in January of 2005 – which Gang Land first disclosed thatSeptember – in which Basciano admits ordering a close associate to whack Pizzolo.
In his opening remarks to the jury, defense lawyer George Goltzer conceded that Basciano admitted ordering Pizzolo’s slaying while he was behind bars but insisted that his client was lying to his all powerful boss in order to save the life of Dominick Cicale, a close associate who had whacked Pizzolo on his own.
Goltzer conceded that Basciano was a powerful mobster who had committed numerous crimes, but insisted that he had nothing to do with ordering the December 1, 2004 murder of Pizzolo. His purpose in telling his mob boss he ordered the slaying was solely to protect Cicale from retaliation from Massino for having acted without prior approval.
The defense lawyer implored jurors to listen to the tapes “as many times as you want” during deliberations, assuring them that when all the evidence is in, “the only fair inference is that Vincent Basciano is saying what he has to say to save DominickCicale.”
It’s hard to determine what the jury will ultimately decide, but one irony of the defense lawyer’s words is that if Vinny Gorgeous was indeed trying to save Cicale from Masssino, his old pal hasn’t expressed much gratitude. He has already testified against him twice, and is slated to follow Massino to the stand.
A second irony is that no matter what the outcome of the trial, Vinny Gorgeous, who is serving life without parole for one mob murder, will leave prison in a body bag some time in the future.

[CabriniGreen]

He also explained the rationale behind another mob rubout: Disrespect. While he was on the lam in 1984 – ducking trial for the murders of three capos in 1981 – Massino said he learned from Rastelli’s brother and his own brother-in-law Salvatore Vitale, who was then a capo, that Rastelli was planning to whack Cesare Bonventre, a member of the family’s Sicilian faction who had extorted about $600,000 from a drug dealer who was close to Rastelli.
When Bonventre was called on the carpet about it by Rastelli, (right) not only did he deny the allegation, “he got insulted” by the inquiry and “got up and walked away,’ without so much as a polite good bye to his already steaming Mafia boss.
“You can’t do that with bosses,” said Massino. “That’s why he died.”

This is kinda interesting... that a drug beef made it to the table. The way Borello described it, if you protect a drug dealer, you lose like, automatically at the table, cause drug guys cant be protected. He said they would take their money, but once it got to the table the wiseguys would deny any association....

Shows the Bonnanos at least had no formal ban in place at all...

[chin_gigante]

Here is Capeci's gangland report on Massino's testimony that includes Joe Pistone. Sounds like Pistone work was a bit of a stretch. I wonder if someone on here has Massino's testimony.

You can find Massino's testimony in the FBI files section:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6098

[Pogo The Clown]

So the FBI told him lie about Pistone being proposed in 1981? To what purpose?


Pogo

To help and not hurt their image. They had long ago put out the story of pulling Pistone out of things due to fear he was going to be made. Pistone had backed the story up. If Massino says it's untrue, they look like fools for lying.

Well that is certainly a new revelation Bert. When and where did the Feds claim they pulled him out because they feared he was going to be made? Pistone always maintained he wanted the operation to continue because he thought he could get made.


Pogo

[bert]

So the FBI told him lie about Pistone being proposed in 1981? To what purpose?


Pogo

To help and not hurt their image. They had long ago put out the story of pulling Pistone out of things due to fear he was going to be made. Pistone had backed the story up. If Massino says it's untrue, they look like fools for lying.

Well that is certainly a new revelation Bert. When and where did the Feds claim they pulled him out because they feared he was going to be made? Pistone always maintained he wanted the operation to continue because he thought he could get made.


Pogo

They were quoted multiple times saying it in the newspapers and tv when it happened. Look through old news archives from that time period, or tv news reports from back then.

[bert]

Bert, some sincere advice, post less.

I'm responding to Pogo post to post, I notice you only want me to stop. Mind your business.

[cosanostra101]

This is from the book, The Last Godfather:

Body of an unidentified victim of a homicide, discovered 8-12-82 in a remote area within the confines of the 122 PCT. The deceased was found wrapped in a Bellevue Hospital Mortuary Bag.
Adult Male, White, about 5'7", Slim build.
Death by gunshot wound to the head.

When the police pulled the soggy corpe out of the mud and laid it on a bed of leaves, it was unrecognizable. An autopsy conducted the next day found the body was so decomposed and filthy, the skin color was difficult to determine. The entire body is blackish in color, with tan-white greasy areas. The medical examiner had trouble telling if the dead person was a man or a woman. The external genitalia are consistent with those of a male. They are very friable and are falling apart on examination. The body's fingers were also missing
The eyeballs were sunken, the nose decomposed; the tongue was protruding from the mouth. A full body X-ray revealed "metallic fragments" inside the man's skull, which was then cut away for further inspection. A deformed bullet was found in the right frontal area of the brain. Eventually, the medical examiner was forced to resort to dental records to identify the body. Five days before Pistone would take the stand, the medical examiner made his determination: the dead man was Dominick "Sonny Black" Napolitano.

The dirt-covered man's clothing included a dark pair of trousers, a dark V-neck T-shirt, a pair of slip-on leather shoes and a leather belt. ALSO, a metal bracelet with chunky, flat links worn on the right wrist.

[cosanostra101]

Here is Capeci's gangland report on Massino's testimony that includes Joe Pistone. Sounds like Pistone work was a bit of a stretch. I wonder if someone on here has Massino's testimony.

You can find Massino's testimony in the FBI files section:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6098

Thank you for the link. i searched Pfor istone and Brasco. Did I miss that Sonny Black was killed and his hands chopped off for taking Pistone around? Or did Pistone make that up?

[Pogo The Clown]

So the FBI told him lie about Pistone being proposed in 1981? To what purpose?


Pogo

To help and not hurt their image. They had long ago put out the story of pulling Pistone out of things due to fear he was going to be made. Pistone had backed the story up. If Massino says it's untrue, they look like fools for lying.

Well that is certainly a new revelation Bert. When and where did the Feds claim they pulled him out because they feared he was going to be made? Pistone always maintained he wanted the operation to continue because he thought he could get made.


Pogo

They were quoted multiple times saying it in the newspapers and tv when it happened. Look through old news archives from that time period, or tv news reports from back then.

In case you didn't notice I was being facetious when I asked. The Feds never made such a claim. They pulled him out because they feared that with the increasing turmoil in the family he would be dragged into a murder (one way or another) . Not that they feared he was going to be made. Hell they would have jumped at the chance to have one of their agents actually inducted into LCN.


Pogo

[Uncle Pete]

So the FBI told him lie about Pistone being proposed in 1981? To what purpose?


Pogo

To help and not hurt their image. They had long ago put out the story of pulling Pistone out of things due to fear he was going to be made. Pistone had backed the story up. If Massino says it's untrue, they look like fools for lying.

Well that is certainly a new revelation Bert. When and where did the Feds claim they pulled him out because they feared he was going to be made? Pistone always maintained he wanted the operation to continue because he thought he could get made.


Pogo

They were quoted multiple times saying it in the newspapers and tv when it happened. Look through old news archives from that time period, or tv news reports from back then.

In case you didn't notice I was being facetious when I asked. The Feds never made such a claim. They pulled him out because they feared that with the increasing turmoil in the family he would be dragged into a murder (one way or another) . Not that they feared he was going to be made. Hell they would have jumped at the chance to have one of their agents actually inducted into LCN.


Pogo

I thought I had read somewhere that the FBI higher ups actually thought getting an under cover agent made would be counter productive to future indictments. The logic being how bad can being a made man be if an FBI agent could get made?

[Pogo The Clown]

I re-checked and Pistone was pulled after he was given the contract to kill Bruno Indelicato. That jogged my memory about a conversation Pistone recounts where Sonny Black tells him he is going to put him up for membership.


Pogo

[bert]

So the FBI told him lie about Pistone being proposed in 1981? To what purpose?


Pogo

To help and not hurt their image. They had long ago put out the story of pulling Pistone out of things due to fear he was going to be made. Pistone had backed the story up. If Massino says it's untrue, they look like fools for lying.

Well that is certainly a new revelation Bert. When and where did the Feds claim they pulled him out because they feared he was going to be made? Pistone always maintained he wanted the operation to continue because he thought he could get made.


Pogo

They were quoted multiple times saying it in the newspapers and tv when it happened. Look through old news archives from that time period, or tv news reports from back then.

In case you didn't notice I was being facetious when I asked. The Feds never made such a claim. They pulled him out because they feared that with the increasing turmoil in the family he would be dragged into a murder (one way or another) . Not that they feared he was going to be made. Hell they would have jumped at the chance to have one of their agents actually inducted into LCN.


Pogo

You are half wrong and half right. They did say he was going to be dragged into a murder, but they said because he would have to kill someone to get made. They said he was pulled out before getting made for that reason. It's in news archives, it was said many times back after the case broke.