bert wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 1:56 pmIt is not really confirmed that he came through Dara, and he was not as close to them by any stretch as he got with Sonny Black Lefty. 99% or other crews would have looked into his stories and background. I think guys in Blacks crew were suspicious too.
When Pistone had his beef with Patsy and Frankie he was told to sit tight (couldn’t leave) whilst Jilly phoned Florida and checked him out.
And he would’ve had to have known or trusted whoever the fuck he picked up the phone too.
So you have ‘reputable source’ in Florida: Jilly made guy: Mirra made guy: Lefty made guy: Sonny black.
What exactly should SB have done if three made guys clear him with a likely fourth?
And who are these guys in blacks crew who are suspicious?
Where’s that come from?
bert wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 1:56 pmIt is not really confirmed that he came through Dara, and he was not as close to them by any stretch as he got with Sonny Black Lefty. 99% or other crews would have looked into his stories and background. I think guys in Blacks crew were suspicious too.
When Pistone had his beef with Patsy and Frankie he was told to sit tight (couldn’t leave) whilst Jilly phoned Florida and checked him out.
And he would’ve had to have known or trusted whoever the fuck he picked up the phone too.
So you have ‘reputable source’ in Florida: Jilly made guy: Mirra made guy: Lefty made guy: Sonny black.
What exactly should SB have done if three made guys clear him with a likely fourth?
Agreed. It's not hard to believe they didn't feel like he needed to be checked out any further than this.
Sonny saw potential in an associate that it seemed had done abit of an apprenticeship how many associates did gotti have round him bundles. Dont blame sb blame jilly mirra in my opinion but lefty fucked his self saying early he put donnie on record with sabella or nicky?
I think Lefty sort of sensed it too with that whole Rocky and Mirra situation. Lefty on wiretap said something like "Now between you and him, there's something wrong..." It seemed like he did not want to believe it. I know he was with the guy for a few years at that point, but still makes ya wonder.
B. wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 2:00 amas if he were a former wiseguy
TBH, he really is a former wiseguy. Fed or not he was proposed to be made, it wasn't like they were just giving that away back then. You can't really take that away even if he was pretending.
If I didn't have my case coming up, I would like to come back with you gentlemen when this is over with and really lay the law down what is going on in this country.....
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:11 pm
But he wasn't really new and unknown by the time he met Lefty and Sonny Black. He had been undercover for a few years by then and had started out with those lower level Colombo guys. And if he was vouched for by made member William Dara that, and his previous track record with the Colonbos, would have been enough to get him in with the Bonanno crowd.
Pogo
Best post in the thread.
Yes I would agree with others that Lefty just seen a cash cow and Pistone had him on the line by Lefty chomping down on a beaner that he baited his hook with. Now Sonny Black was a stone gangster, nobody can deny that. They went deeper into Pistone's backstory than the movie shows so it wasn't like they just threw him into the wind on a whim. The Feds had their shit together and it fooled almost every single gangster along the line including two heavily feared gangsters in Sonny Black and Tony Mirra.
If I didn't have my case coming up, I would like to come back with you gentlemen when this is over with and really lay the law down what is going on in this country.....
B. wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 2:00 amas if he were a former wiseguy
TBH, he really is a former wiseguy. Fed or not he was proposed to be made, it wasn't like they were just giving that away back then. You can't really take that away even if he was pretending.
He says he was going to be made, it's very tough if not impossible to believe. He accomplished a lot, did a good job as an agent, but he hypes himself up, as do others. No big sin, just a minor lie from him.
It is not just Pistone saying it. Maasino has confirmed that Pistone was proposed to be made by Sonny Black and that he would have been made if the books weren't closed.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 9:49 am
It is not just Pistone saying it. Maasino has confirmed that Pistone was proposed to be made by Sonny Black and that he would have been made if the books weren't closed.
Pogo
I don't believe Massino, he was being protected by the FBI at the time since he had started ratting. If it is true, and he was telling it honestly, he was an idiot of a boss. Pistone was brought around to do business as an associate, if he was proposed his story of being an orphan with no background would have raised a million red flags. Plus if you listen to his tapes with Ruggiero, he sounded like a pussy when he talked.
First Massino was not the Boss when Pistone was undercover and two Maasino has no reason to about a 25 year old insignifican detail like that.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:38 pm
First Massino was not the Boss when Pistone was undercover and two Maasino has no reason to about a 25 year old insignifican detail like that.
Pogo
If it came up it was of some significance. His reason for lying if he was would be to save his ass from prison. If they wanted him to say stuff he was going to say it. It could have been true, but it would have been a bad move that would not have worked.
it was an obscure anecdote from something that happened in 1981 that had no bearing on his cooperation deal or his testimony in a criminal case in the 2000s involving people and crimes that had nothing to do with Pistone. Again Maasino has no reason to lie about it.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 9:40 pm
it was an obscure anecdote from something that happened in 1981 that had no bearing on his cooperation deal or his testimony in a criminal case in the 2000s involving people and crimes that had nothing to do with Pistone. Again Maasino has no reason to lie about it.
Pogo
Everything he said was relevant to his deal. If it was so obscure you would not know of it or bring it up in the year 2020.
Right so his cooperation agreement was really hanging on wether or not Pistone was really proposed.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
