gohnjotti wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 6:20 pmhttps://nypost.com/2011/10/31/la-cosa-nostra/Peppermint wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:41 pmSorry to interject, but...Cacuzza wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:33 pmIs it true that if an associate is approached for membership and declines they are still respected but have to disassociate themselves? They are no longer allowed to associate as before and still hang around but have to leave but there is no prejudice or animosity. They are considered an outsider but with respect and are left alone and they can't come back. They had their chance. Is any of that true or sound familiar?SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:01 pmIt’s a speculative conclusion, but not one without base.Cheech wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:31 pmwhat are you basing this on, my friend?SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:30 pm The mafia is like any other organisation where people naturally wish to advance and climb the hierarchy. its seen as recognition of achievement and reward for service as well as respect among peers. Those that decline membership are still in the vast minority.
That the known cases of associates declining are few and far between. Of course there would be more that we don’t know, but the mob is still filling it’s ranks at whim it appears.
Additionally a soldier is a level above an associate and for the reasons I gave above coupled with that the position of soldier carries with it rights above that of an associate, all considered, I thinks it’s an easy conclusion to draw.
I don’t see why that wouldn’t be true. Especially if the person declines membership under good terms, but I don’t know. If I was a made guy, and my offer to an associate to become made themselves was declined I would be suspicious of why that is, and become worried they’re turning into a rat. I would find it odd, that after having spent all this time working for my family, as a loyal associate and being a dedicated earner, not want to become made I would imagine that would be ultimately their goal.
So my question is, what reason would there be for an associate to spend all this time working for a family, and decline the opportunity to become made? Seems counterproductive, and suspicious to me.
This article helps explain some of the reasons why an associate might decline an induction.
Since I made this thread back in 2018, I've learned a lot more details about Guerra and Petillo's aborted inductions.
Unsurprisingly, the only examples I have of this are Colombo family-related. But, as that article said, both Joseph Petillo and Francis Guerra allegedly turned down membership proposals in 2010. Although the NY Post article doesn't go into detail, Petillo was a former associate of William Cutolo/Michael Spataro. He was a wealthy associate, primarily involved in loansharking with rumors that he was also involved in drugs, according to Peggy Cutolo. In 2010, eleven years after Cutolo's death left his crew in disarray, Petillo was proposed for membership by Andy Russo, the Colombo family's street boss, who was attempting to "re-energize" the crime family's dwindling numbers by bringing back wayward members and associates like Joe Petillo back into the fold. Petillo declined, however, because he feared it was a set-up. According to Liz Geddes in Andy Russo's detention hearing (or Petillo's detention hearing, I can't recall exactly which), Petillo and Russo were incarcerated together in the 2000s and had some sort of prison dispute. Given the Colombo family's well-documented history of double-crosses: Petillo was caught up in the fringes of the 1991-93 Colombo war, was around for the assassination and poaching of his captain William Cutolo and his crew, and witnessed firsthand the double-crossing and turmoil that occurred with Cutolo's crew afterwards. Petillo presumably thought the ceremony was a set-up to be whacked, and didn't attend. In reality, from what Geddes said, it appears Russo really was trying to induct Petillo, and Petillo later expressed on tape regret for not attending.
Guerra is a different story, because he has been a proposed member pretty much since 1993, alongside Big Anthony Russo, when he participated in the Joseph Scopo hit that concluded the war. He was first scheduled to be inducted in 2000, one of the youngest in a batch of patiently-waiting proposed associates, but was arrested on drug charges. When he was released from prison, he was proposed once again but was caught on tape wondering whether it would even be worth it. By this point, Guerra had already been mistakenly ID'ed as a Colombo soldier when he was Allie Persico's personal driver, and Guerra was/is incredibly close to the Persico brood (particularly Allie, Teddy Sr., and Skinny Teddy), as well as captains Big Anthony Russo and Reynold Maragni.
When Guerra was asked if he wanted to be inducted in the Feb. 2009 ceremony along with his friend Big Anthony Russo and others, Guerra "passed" on it. With some prodding by Anthony Russo, who had been promoted to acting captain just over a year after his induction, Guerra eventually agreed to be inducted in the next upcoming ceremony in Dec. 2010, and a list was passed around with Guerra's name on it. However, the ceremony was cancelled due to FBI heat.
In April 2011, a wired-up Reynold Maragni had a conversation with Guerra confirming that he had seen Guerra's name on a list, and discussed with Guerra the fact that he "had a birthday coming" and Guerra would now be "the same as your friends."
Gohn, do you know if petillo is still active?
