Massino’s Rebuild/Era

[Rat]

Lately, the Joe Massino era of the Bonnanos has been very interesting to me. According to reports he was able to build the Bonnanos back up under the nose of the FBI after they pronounced the family all but dead.

I have a few questions

How dire of a State were the Bonnanos in when Massino took over?

To what extent did Massino rebuild the family?

What was the peak of the Bonnanos power under Massino? I saw journalists online calling them arguably the top family under Massino for a brief time.

How much of Massino’s rebuild was luck due to the FBI ignoring them versus Massinos intelligence as a boss?

Any other interesting info would be lovely too

[Wiseguy]

Lately, the Joe Massino era of the Bonnanos has been very interesting to me. According to reports he was able to build the Bonnanos back up under the nose of the FBI after they pronounced the family all but dead.

I have a few questions

How dire of a State were the Bonnanos in when Massino took over?

To what extent did Massino rebuild the family?

What was the peak of the Bonnanos power under Massino? I saw journalists online calling them arguably the top family under Massino for a brief time.

How much of Massino’s rebuild was luck due to the FBI ignoring them versus Massinos intelligence as a boss?

Any other interesting info would be lovely too

The journalists (echoing some FBI sources) said the Bonannos had risen to become the second strongest family after the Genovese. Massino stabilized the family, got it back on the Commission (if I remember right), and increased the membership. He was a smart boss in a lot of ways but one can't deny the lack of law enforcement pressure helped greatly. Once the FBI turned the heat back on, look what ultimately happened.

[Rat]

Lately, the Joe Massino era of the Bonnanos has been very interesting to me. According to reports he was able to build the Bonnanos back up under the nose of the FBI after they pronounced the family all but dead.

I have a few questions

How dire of a State were the Bonnanos in when Massino took over?

To what extent did Massino rebuild the family?

What was the peak of the Bonnanos power under Massino? I saw journalists online calling them arguably the top family under Massino for a brief time.

How much of Massino’s rebuild was luck due to the FBI ignoring them versus Massinos intelligence as a boss?

Any other interesting info would be lovely too

The journalists (echoing some FBI sources) said the Bonannos had risen to become the second strongest family after the Genovese. Massino stabilized the family, got it back on the Commission (if I remember right), and increased the membership. He was a smart boss in a lot of ways but one can't deny the lack of law enforcement pressure helped greatly. Once the FBI turned the heat back on, look what ultimately happened.

I know they were kicked off the commission, but did they other families avoid/punish them in any other ways?

[Wiseguy]

I know they were kicked off the commission, but did they other families avoid/punish them in any other ways?

The Bonannos were closed out of a lot of the labor union rackets the other families were mutually involved in.

[Pogo The Clown]

Lately, the Joe Massino era of the Bonnanos has been very interesting to me. According to reports he was able to build the Bonnanos back up under the nose of the FBI after they pronounced the family all but dead.

To be clear they never said they were all but dead. In fact they still classified the Bonannos as a powerful famil in 1992. What they said was that the Bonannos had been weakened so they reduced surveillance beginning in the late 80s and then in 1993, due to so many Colombos being prison, the Bonanno and Colombo squads were merged with the feeling that they didn't need two squads. But that didn't last and in 1996 the Bonnanos were given their own squad again.


Pogo

[MSFRD]

My info mostly comes from Five Families by Raab: by 1990 down to about 100 soldiers and off the commission after the Donnie Brasco situation. Official and boss in waiting both in prison, and other families forbidden from doing business with the Bonnano’s.

Comparing them to the early-mid 60s when Bonnano was still at the helm, you could say they were smaller, faction-ridden and their prestige had taken a hit.
Consider the situation they are in now, and thirty years ago with bigger Italian-American neighbourhoods and a larger recruiting pool and we can say they were, in all circumstances just at a low-ebb.

[thegunners]

Massino certainly made them a viable force again but I`ve always been a bit sceptical about them being stronger than the Gambinos at any stage, regardless of the Gambinos going through a tough period.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Massino certainly made them a viable force again but I`ve always been a bit sceptical about them being stronger than the Gambinos at any stage, regardless of the Gambinos going through a tough period.

Correct.

This assumption comes singularly from an off the cuff comment a Westside skipper made around the time.

As if he was in a position to do a headcount of either the Bonanno’s or the Bino’s, and this is excluding the seriousness of his intent or how literally he intended the comment to be taken.

[thegunners]

There are a lot more knowledgeable people than me here but I always had the impression that the Gambinos is a much larger family with more diversified operations than the Bonannos. The fact that the Bonannos had stable leadership while the Gambinos had a lot of change in their leadership and big players in jail don`t change that.

[thegunners]

Again, the more knowledgable posters will have to correct me but in my opinion the pecking order at the moment,and also most of the time historically , looks like this.

1. Genovese
2. Gambino
3. Lucchese
4. Bonanno
5. Colombo

The Bonannos most likely were more powerful than the Lukes under most of Massinos reign and I know some will say that the Gambinos at some point were as powerful, if not more, than the Genovese.

[Wiseguy]

Correct.

This assumption comes singularly from an off the cuff comment a Westside skipper made around the time.

As if he was in a position to do a headcount of either the Bonanno’s or the Bino’s, and this is excluding the seriousness of his intent or how literally he intended the comment to be taken.

This is actually one of the very rare times I may disagree with the FBI stance. Even with the two families being on different trajectories during that time (early 1990's to early 2000's), the Gambinos were still a larger organization, covered more territory, and had involvement in certain labor rackets/legitimate industries the Bonannos didn't. But anyone familiar with my view knows I think the Bonannos were overrated during the Massino era. In fact, I think they are still often overrated on this forum.

Again, the more knowledgable posters will have to correct me but in my opinion the pecking order at the moment,and also most of the time historically , looks like this.

1. Genovese
2. Gambino
3. Lucchese
4. Bonanno
5. Colombo

The Bonannos most likely were more powerful than the Lukes under most of Massinos reign and I know some will say that the Gambinos at some point were as powerful, if not more, than the Genovese.

Genovese always #1, though it could be argued the Gambinos rivaled them in many ways in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. The position of the three smaller NY families seem to have fluctuated depending on the time. During the 1980's, for example, the Colombos were ahead of the Bonannos.

[Pogo The Clown]

Massino certainly made them a viable force again but I`ve always been a bit sceptical about them being stronger than the Gambinos at any stage, regardless of the Gambinos going through a tough period.

Correct.

This assumption comes singularly from an off the cuff comment a Westside skipper made around the time.

As if he was in a position to do a headcount of either the Bonanno’s or the Bino’s, and this is excluding the seriousness of his intent or how literally he intended the comment to be taken.

It didn't come from that. The FBI said outright in 2000 that the Bonannos had surpassed the Gambinos as the #2 family in NY.


Pogo

[B.]

Mafia politics aren't based on membership size. It's relevant to the discussion for sure, but member sources themselves have said as much. A large family can just as easily end up with a fractured power base due to factionalism and be more susceptible to in-fighting (not necessarily violence but def divided interests).

The Bonannos never surpassed the Gambino family in terms of size or operations, but it could be argued that they had more political influence within the NYC mafia than most of the groups during this period.

- Bonanno family had their full administration on the streets and Massino had steadily built the family back up through tight-knit relationships.
- Brooklyn-based Gambino family underboss had flipped, administration was incarcerated, and Junior Gotti was at the top of the family.
- Lucchese family was decimated by warfare/prison, Brooklyn acting boss + underboss both flipped, administration incarcerated.
- Brooklyn Colombo family was decimated by warfare, prison, and cooperation. Not much elaboration needed.

While the Bonanno family didn't have as much of a presence in the same Brooklyn neighborhoods where the Gambino, Lucchese, and Colombo family received the most damage, this still had an impact on the Bonanno family's influence in Brooklyn and Queens.

I try not to measure the families based on immeasurables/intangibles like "power", but it was not only Massino's leadership but also extremely damaging events in the Gambino, Lucchese, and Colombo families that would have benefited the Bonanno family through most of the 1990s.

[Pogo The Clown]

By 2000 not only were most of the Gambino leadership and capos in prison but most of the rackets that differentiated them were gone. Construction was only 1/3 of what it had been in the early 1980s (direct from DiLeonardo who oversaw the racket) and the garment center, garbage and airports rackets were gone while the Brooklyn docks had had been reduced to pretty much nothing by that point.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Good post B.

As always, spot on.