Experts! Please Help Explain This to Me

[mafiastudent]

So, I was doing some browsing and there are various websites I go to....and I come across this site that sometimes either reprints news or rewrites it.

Anyway, this site published an NY Post article with this headline:

Young man accused of killing Gambino family boss rants about conspiracies in court"

Am I the only one that sees something wrong with that headline???????????

The actual article from the NY Post says:

Conspiracist accused in Gambino boss killing goes on bizarre courtroom rant
https://nypost.com/2020/02/07/conspirac ... room-rant/

So, why would you call a psychopathic murderer a "Young Man" and yet Cali gets the label of "Gambino Family boss"

I'm just curious how forum members view this because I just don't get it.

[MichaelGiovanni]

It’s click bait sensationalism like just about 90% of any other headline about any other topic.

[SonnyBlackstein]

This seriously needs explaining?

‘Young’ refers to age (a correct reference in this context)
‘Man’ refers to his biological sex (“as above”)
“Psychopath” the term you used refers to a mental condition and does not conflict nor render either above term as incorrect or superfluous.
‘Gambino” One of the five families (of which Cali was a member of this particular one)
“Boss” Head of the family (and a typical misuse by the media of the term as they, not their audience are familiar, nor care, about the specific terms used in LCN. As a member of the administration he was, by explanation a boss (leader is a more apt term) of the family.) hence it’s inclusion to paint the picture for the ‘layman’.

Young man Gambino boss. It’s not hard nor requires experts to decipher.
So to answer your question, yes. You are the only one who see’s something wrong with the headline.

[mafiastudent]

This seriously needs explaining?

‘Young’ refers to age (a correct reference in this context)
‘Man’ refers to his biological sex (“as above”)
“Psychopath” the term you used refers to a mental condition and does not conflict nor render either above term as incorrect or superfluous.
‘Gambino” One of the five families (of which Cali was a member of this particular one)
“Boss” Head of the family (and a typical misuse by the media of the term as they, not their audience are familiar, nor care, about the specific terms used in LCN. As a member of the administration he was, by explanation a boss (leader is a more apt term) of the family.) hence it’s inclusion to paint the picture for the ‘layman’.

Young man Gambino boss. It’s not hard nor requires experts to decipher.
So to answer your question, yes. You are the only one who see’s something wrong with the headline.

Don't you think the more fair thing would have been to say "Accused Murderer"? Saying young man makes it seem like he's an upstanding member of society when the fact is he killed a guy in cold blood - in front of the man's home.

[Pogo The Clown]

What is the difference between "accused murderer" and "accused of killing"?


Pogo

[mafiastudent]

What is the difference between "accused murderer" and "accused of killing"?


Pogo

My issue is with the "Young Man" portion of that headline. So, maybe if they rewrote it to something like Accused Murderer of Gambino Family Boss......

would be better than trying to make this guy out to be a normal person. In fact, they should just say Accused Murderer of Frank Cali and leave the mafia stuff out because at this point it isn't, according to LE, mob-related and thus, Cali should be represented as a person, at least in the headline. Later in the story, say he's an alleged boss or boss or whatever, but the headline should reflect something different.

And I know that it's click-bait and that people won't get excited if they just see "Frank Cali." But I still think calling that guy "young man" is the wrong choice.

[gohnjotti]

What is the difference between "accused murderer" and "accused of killing"?


Pogo

My issue is with the "Young Man" portion of that headline. So, maybe if they rewrote it to something like Accused Murderer of Gambino Family Boss......

would be better than trying to make this guy out to be a normal person. In fact, they should just say Accused Murderer of Frank Cali and leave the mafia stuff out because at this point it isn't, according to LE, mob-related and thus, Cali should be represented as a person, at least in the headline. Later in the story, say he's an alleged boss or boss or whatever, but the headline should reflect something different.

And I know that it's click-bait and that people won't get excited if they just see "Frank Cali." But I still think calling that guy "young man" is the wrong choice.

I'm not disagreeing with you mafiastudent, but if the news wanted to be fair and unbiased, then the title should just be: "Young man accused of killing Staten Island resident rants about conspiracies in court." But then no one would click. People click because it's Frank Cali, not because it's Anthony Comello, a weirdo construction worker from Staten Island.

[mafiastudent]

What is the difference between "accused murderer" and "accused of killing"?


Pogo

My issue is with the "Young Man" portion of that headline. So, maybe if they rewrote it to something like Accused Murderer of Gambino Family Boss......

would be better than trying to make this guy out to be a normal person. In fact, they should just say Accused Murderer of Frank Cali and leave the mafia stuff out because at this point it isn't, according to LE, mob-related and thus, Cali should be represented as a person, at least in the headline. Later in the story, say he's an alleged boss or boss or whatever, but the headline should reflect something different.

And I know that it's click-bait and that people won't get excited if they just see "Frank Cali." But I still think calling that guy "young man" is the wrong choice.

I'm not disagreeing with you mafiastudent, but if the news wanted to be fair and unbiased, then the title should just be: "Young man accused of killing Staten Island resident rants about conspiracies in court." But then no one would click. People click because it's Frank Cali, not because it's Anthony Comello, a weirdo construction worker from Staten Island.

Which is all part of media bias, no? And if you take it a step further with any high profile mafia case, do you think media bias affects a jury pool? You know what I mean? If people already have these preconceived notions before they enter the jury room, then how can someone get a fair trial?

And as far as Cali is concerned, I guess I keep going back to his family and kids and how seeing their father's name constantly in the headlines affects them. It can't be easy.

[Pogo The Clown]

But Cali was a mob boss. That is why Comello fixated on him to begin with and ultimately killed him. Thus it is news worthy to mention the fact that Cali was a mobster. Besides when someone is killed and there is an article covering their occupation is usually mentioned. So what is wrong that saying Cali was a Mobster?


Pogo

[mafiastudent]

And an article about media bias to prove my point:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -courtroom

[gohnjotti]

And an article about media bias to prove my point:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -courtroom

I think in a lot of cases they ask jurors if they have read about the defendant in the news, or have any preconceived notions about the Mafia. In Vinny Asaro's trial, I believe they asked jurors if they had seen Goodfellas, and it was therefore very hard to find potential jurors who hadn't. Of course, this isn't really a foolproof method since jurors can always lie, but it's something.

[mafiastudent]

And an article about media bias to prove my point:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -courtroom

I think in a lot of cases they ask jurors if they have read about the defendant in the news, or have any preconceived notions about the Mafia. In Vinny Asaro's trial, I believe they asked jurors if they had seen Goodfellas, and it was therefore very hard to find potential jurors who hadn't. Of course, this isn't really a foolproof method since jurors can always lie, but it's something.

So, basically, it's impossible for these "mafia" guys to get a fair trial because everyone has preconceived notions about what and who they are.

[SonnyBlackstein]

This seriously needs explaining?

‘Young’ refers to age (a correct reference in this context)
‘Man’ refers to his biological sex (“as above”)
“Psychopath” the term you used refers to a mental condition and does not conflict nor render either above term as incorrect or superfluous.
‘Gambino” One of the five families (of which Cali was a member of this particular one)
“Boss” Head of the family (and a typical misuse by the media of the term as they, not their audience are familiar, nor care, about the specific terms used in LCN. As a member of the administration he was, by explanation a boss (leader is a more apt term) of the family.) hence it’s inclusion to paint the picture for the ‘layman’.

Young man Gambino boss. It’s not hard nor requires experts to decipher.
So to answer your question, yes. You are the only one who see’s something wrong with the headline.

Don't you think the more fair thing would have been to say "Accused Murderer"? Saying young man makes it seem like he's an upstanding member of society when the fact is he killed a guy in cold blood - in front of the man's home.

Accused Murderer. Think carefully about those two words.
Individually and collectively.
Now act that out.
Accused: ‘I was accused of x’ ie someone made an UNPROVEN accusation.
Murderer: ‘someone who of right mind decided to take the life of another by violence.’

The key here is the presumption. He’s only accused.
Let me rephrase. What would you say to a headline that read ‘mafia website female poster accused of serial child murders.’ How would you like your headline to read? “Women accused of serious crime’ or ‘Mrs X of 24 staten island lane charged with serial child murders and child abuse.’

The best way to see both sides of the debate is to take both sides.

You’re pissed off this guy wasn’t described as a murderer. Well, he’s NOT. Until the jury says so. Because... what if he’s not?
The presumption of innocence serves a VITAL function.
FEELINGS about headlines are NOT utilitarian.
Get my point?

[mafiastudent]

This seriously needs explaining?

‘Young’ refers to age (a correct reference in this context)
‘Man’ refers to his biological sex (“as above”)
“Psychopath” the term you used refers to a mental condition and does not conflict nor render either above term as incorrect or superfluous.
‘Gambino” One of the five families (of which Cali was a member of this particular one)
“Boss” Head of the family (and a typical misuse by the media of the term as they, not their audience are familiar, nor care, about the specific terms used in LCN. As a member of the administration he was, by explanation a boss (leader is a more apt term) of the family.) hence it’s inclusion to paint the picture for the ‘layman’.

Young man Gambino boss. It’s not hard nor requires experts to decipher.
So to answer your question, yes. You are the only one who see’s something wrong with the headline.

Don't you think the more fair thing would have been to say "Accused Murderer"? Saying young man makes it seem like he's an upstanding member of society when the fact is he killed a guy in cold blood - in front of the man's home.

Accused Murderer. Think carefully about those two words.
Individually and collectively.
Now act that out.
Accused: ‘I was accused of x’ ie someone made an UNPROVEN accusation.
Murderer: ‘someone who of right mind decided to take the life of another by violence.’

The key here is the presumption. He’s only accused.
Let me rephrase. What would you say to a headline that read ‘mafia website female poster accused of serial child murders.’ How would you like your headline to read? “Women accused of serious crime’ or ‘Mrs X of 24 staten island lane charged with serial child murders and child abuse.’

The best way to see both sides of the debate is to take both sides.

You’re pissed off this guy wasn’t described as a murderer. Well, he’s NOT. Until the jury says so. Because... what if he’s not?
The presumption of innocence serves a VITAL function.
FEELINGS about headlines are NOT utilitarian.
Get my point?

So, then explain to me why this is possible -- using what you stated above? If there is a presumption of innocence, why is the federal government on an indictment basically saying these guys are "members and associates" of a group before they even go to trial. This is the indictment stage. They're being accused. So what's the difference?

Seven Members and Associates of the Gambino and Bonanno Crime Families Indicted for Racketeering and Related Charges

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/se ... cketeering

[mafiastudent]

They're basically telling the public these guys are Members of this Family without any proof in a court of law. And what does the media do? They reprint the headline.