General Mob Questions

[maxiestern11]

NO connection or relationship whatsoever ok! None!!
Only the Cirillo surname which is very common

Thx for the answer.

[anthony-jtodaro]

the anthony todaro - 33 year old is loaded with money but they can''t prove anything on the todaro's as usual because the city of buffalo is corrupted. The family has being doing this since the 70's or and 80's and they still haven't been able to make a major bust. Come on co ownership with the buffalo bills and sabres they are paying everyone off and being careful when making there move's.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Not really a question there Furio.

[Confederate]

Terry Pegula owns the Buffalo Bills. The only thing Todaro would have in common with the Buffalo Bills is to make pizza for them at halftime.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Terry Pegula owns the Buffalo Bills. The only thing Todaro would have in common with the Buffalo Bills is to make pizza for them at halftime.

How do you think Todaro bumped the numbers up past thirty?

Half the Bills are buttons.

[Amershire_Ed]

I know it’s kinda lame to try and rank which Family is the most powerful or which crew has the biggest earners, etc, but I am curious to know what the NY families think of each other. Like what reputation do the Luke’s have with the other 4 families? How do the other families look at the Gambinos? Are the same assumptions made on this board and by law enforcement about the Genovese’s status as top dogs made by guys on the street in the other families? I know the Gambinos and Bonannos have had some recent beef as well as the Luke’s and the Bonannos. Is it like college football and every family thinks they are ranked number one? Or do most guys on the street have a sober and honest assessment of which families and crews are running things and which ones aren’t?

I just got to thinking that some of the conversations had on here are also had by made guys when they are in private. Which crew is really earning, which guys are really killers, what younger person they could see being in a leadership role one day. I’d really like to know what these guys opinions are of each other.

[Wiseguy]

I know it’s kinda lame to try and rank which Family is the most powerful or which crew has the biggest earners, etc, but I am curious to know what the NY families think of each other. Like what reputation do the Luke’s have with the other 4 families? How do the other families look at the Gambinos? Are the same assumptions made on this board and by law enforcement about the Genovese’s status as top dogs made by guys on the street in the other families? I know the Gambinos and Bonannos have had some recent beef as well as the Luke’s and the Bonannos. Is it like college football and every family thinks they are ranked number one? Or do most guys on the street have a sober and honest assessment of which families and crews are running things and which ones aren’t?

I just got to thinking that some of the conversations had on here are also had by made guys when they are in private. Which crew is really earning, which guys are really killers, what younger person they could see being in a leadership role one day. I’d really like to know what these guys opinions are of each other.

Anthony Accetturo, Al D'Arco, and Phil Leonetti all echoed law enforcement sources about the Genovese family being the strongest.

[Pogo The Clown]

Then Genovese Acting Capo Sammy Aparo was cought on a wire talking about his family and "Joe's family" (Bonannos) were the two top families.


Pogo

[JIGGS]

I know the whole point of being made is that you are untouchable to other criminals. I read however about a Lucchese soldier that was killed by Frank Lucas back when he was running Harlem, I was wondering if you knew of any other made guys that have been ever killed by other crime syndicates or gangs?

HELLO!

That never happe'nd. Frank lucas controlling harlem. Total bullshit. Guy had 5 spots and a re up stash house in jersey. Just another moolie operation out of many in harlem. He never killed no made guy he would a been mulch.

For a hit on a wiseguy by some other non cosa nostra group you gotta go back to the old days the mustachio pete era. 4 hebes killed the maranzano. Obanion and bugsy moran surely killed a made guy here or there.

I dont think sly zotolla was made (hit by bloods working for zotolla jr).

JIGGS

[Amershire_Ed]

Frank Lucas made millions as a drug dealer but the bulk of his life story that got turned into a movie is actually based off Ike Atkinson and Frank Matthews. Ike Atkinson was the one who had the connects in Vietnam and Cambodia. He was really the one bringing shipments over. He brought Lucas with him one time to Cambodia—but as a worker. Not as a fellow boss or anything like that. And Ike Atkinson spent the last 10 years of his life demanding Lucas publicly apologize for making up the story about using soldiers coffins to transport the heroin. Atkinson himself was a marine and was furious that Lucas said that’s how they transported the drugs. He said he could forgive Lucas for snitching before he’d ever forgive him for making up the story about using dead marines to smuggle drugs.

And Frank Matthews **is** the guy some mob guys were actually worried about. He worked with them some intially but then he got his own connection and started supplying over half the United States. It’s not an exaggeration to say Matthews is the biggest drug dealer in American history. He cut into the mobs business and he was threatened by both Carlo Gambino and Big Paul. He moved across the street from Big Paul in Todt Hill. And they tried to run him out of the neighborhood. But he got word to Gambino that if anything happened to any of his men he would send “an army to Mulbury St to shoot any guinea they see”.

[JIGGS]

Frank Lucas made millions as a drug dealer but the bulk of his life story that got turned into a movie is actually based off Ike Atkinson and Frank Matthews. Ike Atkinson was the one who had the connects in Vietnam and Cambodia. He was really the one bringing shipments over. He brought Lucas with him one time to Cambodia—but as a worker. Not as a fellow boss or anything like that. And Ike Atkinson spent the last 10 years of his life demanding Lucas publicly apologize for making up the story about using soldiers coffins to transport the heroin. Atkinson himself was a marine and was furious that Lucas said that’s how they transported the drugs. He said he could forgive Lucas for snitching before he’d ever forgive him for making up the story about using dead marines to smuggle drugs.

And Frank Matthews **is** the guy some mob guys were actually worried about. He worked with them some intially but then he got his own connection and started supplying over half the United States. It’s not an exaggeration to say Matthews is the biggest drug dealer in American history. He cut into the mobs business and he was threatened by both Carlo Gambino and Big Paul. He moved across the street from Big Paul in Todt Hill. And they tried to run him out of the neighborhood. But he got word to Gambino that if anything happened to any of his men he would send “an army to Mulbury St to shoot any guinea they see”.

Well you know there brother im sorry too say that too is more manufacturers fabrication and publicated bullshit by the true crime expert pezzonovantis. By the time big paul moved into the the todd hill block on s.i. Frankie matthews was in the wind by a lot a years. He was not the biggest drug dealer of all time. He aint even in the top 100. Escobar, the two brothers that ran the cali cartel, that fat bitch from the cocaine cowboys era, don badalamenti, joe lehder, john gambino, rizzuto was all bigger. A new connection to the matthews was made by mr. marquez. The Mexican is who supplied matthews before he jumped bail. The mob did'nt bother the mexican. they worked with him. That big case in 59 with chin, rocco mazzie, the beck brothers, genovese. They aint going after matthews. Mob dont depend on drugs. Drug dealers do. If the higher ups really gave a shit that matthews was cutting into there own business all they gotta do is drop a dime. Roy cohen puts pressure on some big mick in LE and the law takes care a frank matthews. None a them moolies was ever a problem for cosa nostra. They was small potatoes with no butter. See what im saying? Plenty a blacks and spanish gangsters would slice there bosses neck if the mob told them to. And they take over. Nobody hangs together. Green is the color side everybody is on.

JIGGS

[Amershire_Ed]

Frank Lucas made millions as a drug dealer but the bulk of his life story that got turned into a movie is actually based off Ike Atkinson and Frank Matthews. Ike Atkinson was the one who had the connects in Vietnam and Cambodia. He was really the one bringing shipments over. He brought Lucas with him one time to Cambodia—but as a worker. Not as a fellow boss or anything like that. And Ike Atkinson spent the last 10 years of his life demanding Lucas publicly apologize for making up the story about using soldiers coffins to transport the heroin. Atkinson himself was a marine and was furious that Lucas said that’s how they transported the drugs. He said he could forgive Lucas for snitching before he’d ever forgive him for making up the story about using dead marines to smuggle drugs.

And Frank Matthews **is** the guy some mob guys were actually worried about. He worked with them some intially but then he got his own connection and started supplying over half the United States. It’s not an exaggeration to say Matthews is the biggest drug dealer in American history. He cut into the mobs business and he was threatened by both Carlo Gambino and Big Paul. He moved across the street from Big Paul in Todt Hill. And they tried to run him out of the neighborhood. But he got word to Gambino that if anything happened to any of his men he would send “an army to Mulbury St to shoot any guinea they see”.

Well you know there brother im sorry too say that too is more manufacturers fabrication and publicated bullshit by the true crime expert pezzonovantis. By the time big paul moved into the the todd hill block on s.i. Frankie matthews was in the wind by a lot a years. He was not the biggest drug dealer of all time. He aint even in the top 100. Escobar, the two brothers that ran the cali cartel, that fat bitch from the cocaine cowboys era, don badalamenti, joe lehder, john gambino, rizzuto was all bigger. A new connection to the matthews was made by mr. marquez. The Mexican is who supplied matthews before he jumped bail. The mob did'nt bother the mexican. they worked with him. That big case in 59 with chin, rocco mazzie, the beck brothers, genovese. They aint going after matthews. Mob dont depend on drugs. Drug dealers do. If the higher ups really gave a shit that matthews was cutting into there own business all they gotta do is drop a dime. Roy cohen puts pressure on some big mick in LE and the law takes care a frank matthews. None a them moolies was ever a problem for cosa nostra. They was small potatoes with no butter. See what im saying? Plenty a blacks and spanish gangsters would slice there bosses neck if the mob told them to. And they take over. Nobody hangs together. Green is the color side everybody is on.

JIGGS

Outside of Escobar and Carlos Lehder, no one you named was touching Matthews. At least not as an American dealing drugs in America. Escobar, the Ochoa’s, and Riina were bigger, but I don’t consider them American, even though much of their product went to America. Baldalimenti definitelty wasn’t bigger. Griselda Blanco worked for Escobar and the Ochoas. She was like 4th in the pecking order. She had a bigger body count than almost anyone but she was did not have the clientele that Matthews had. The only other American born dealer that was in Matthews weight class in the 1960s and 70s was Eddie Jackson out of Detroit. And that was because they were the only two dealers that were able to find connects outside of Cosa Nostra. Everyone else was going thru the Italians or some other proxy. The Feds say at his peak Matthews was the primary supplier of heroin in **every** major city on the east coast. By 1970, he was plugged in directly with the French Connection thru his connects in Venezuela.

And to your point about the mob choosing to drop a dime on Matthews If they really felt he was competition...there is more than one credible journalist that thinks that’s exactly what they did. Because the story of how the Feds even found out who Matthews was is flimsy at best.

There is no one from that era (mid 60s to mid 70s) that was touching Matthews. At least not in the US. He not only controlled the distribution in like 25-30 states, he had more cash on hand than anyone the government at the time had ever heard of. What’s the most cash on hand any major drug dealer was accused of having in the US? Mob guy or otherwise? There are informants that have Matthews himself showing up to deals with $6M in cash in the 60s, and bragging about how it was nothing. The Feds say he disappeared with his girlfriend and at least $20M in cash. And they 100000% still think he’s alive because when former Baltimore drug dealer Shorty Buise died a few years ago, the Feds sent a ton of agents to the funeral because they thought Matthews was gonna be there. When they didn’t see him the handed out “WANTED” posters with Matthews picture on them.

[Amershire_Ed]

“Frank Matthews was the number one heroin dealer in the United States. Had his wings not been clipped in 72, he would’ve ruled everything.” Former DEA Agent and Federal Prosecuter William Callahan

[Wiseguy]

Outside of Escobar and Carlos Lehder, no one you named was touching Matthews. At least not as an American dealing drugs in America. Escobar, the Ochoa’s, and Riina were bigger, but I don’t consider them American, even though much of their product went to America. Baldalimenti definitelty wasn’t bigger. Griselda Blanco worked for Escobar and the Ochoas. She was like 4th in the pecking order. She had a bigger body count than almost anyone but she was did not have the clientele that Matthews had. The only other American born dealer that was in Matthews weight class in the 1960s and 70s was Eddie Jackson out of Detroit. And that was because they were the only two dealers that were able to find connects outside of Cosa Nostra. Everyone else was going thru the Italians or some other proxy. The Feds say at his peak Matthews was the primary supplier of heroin in **every** major city on the east coast. By 1970, he was plugged in directly with the French Connection thru his connects in Venezuela.

And to your point about the mob choosing to drop a dime on Matthews If they really felt he was competition...there is more than one credible journalist that thinks that’s exactly what they did. Because the story of how the Feds even found out who Matthews was is flimsy at best.

There is no one from that era (mid 60s to mid 70s) that was touching Matthews. At least not in the US. He not only controlled the distribution in like 25-30 states, he had more cash on hand than anyone the government at the time had ever heard of. What’s the most cash on hand any major drug dealer was accused of having in the US? Mob guy or otherwise? There are informants that have Matthews himself showing up to deals with $6M in cash in the 60s, and bragging about how it was nothing. The Feds say he disappeared with his girlfriend and at least $20M in cash. And they 100000% still think he’s alive because when former Baltimore drug dealer Shorty Buise died a few years ago, the Feds sent a ton of agents to the funeral because they thought Matthews was gonna be there. When they didn’t see him the handed out “WANTED” posters with Matthews picture on them.

JIGGS also mentioned the guys that ran the Cali cartel. There's no question they were bigger than Matthews or any other U.S. domestic trafficker. As far as Matthews goes, you have to look at all the evidence and not just focus on one source here or one quote there.

One report I read from years ago, wrote at least in part by Robert Blakey, covered the LCN in a number of areas including the drug trade. Among other things, it said there was not a single large-scale heroin operation in New York City that was independent of the LCN in 1965. Despite there being major black and Hispanic wholesalers by late 1960s, the Corsican-Sicilian-LCN (French Connection) continued to dominate heroin importation.

By the 1970's, the LCN concentrated on importation and wholesale distribution and was no longer major factor in street sales. The French Connection supplied 75-80% of US heroin market in 1972, 45% in 1973, and just 2% in 1974. By 1975, the vast majority of heroin was coming into the country through Mexico. By 1975, while the LCN remained an important factor in trafficking, black and Hispanic groups handled the bulk of heroin trafficking in New York City. That year, there were 13 major NYC drug operators: 4 LCN were LCN. 5 were black. And 4 were Hispanic. The latter included 2 Cuban groups and 2 Colombian groups and they were mainly into cocaine.

Then, of course, you had the Siclians (working with the Gambinos and Bonannos) involved in the Pizza Connection from from 1975 to 1984.

[Amershire_Ed]

Yeah I think Blakey is also one of the only former lawmakers that’s on record saying he thinks the mob played a role in JFKs assassination. I think his theory is the one that involves Trafficante and Marcello.