Early Mafia History Discussion

[Cheech]

Fascinating stuff guys

[bert]

In my opinion the best books to have an overview of the five families are:

Informer Magazine 2014: The Early New York Mafia and David Critchley Book (1890-1931)
The Mob and the City (1931-1957)
The Five Families (1957-2004) I know that this book has been talking since the 1920s but I think it has some errors, so I prefer this book for the years 1957 until 2004.

Critchley's book deserved an award, the research he did was the best, second to no one. I'm serious on that, his research beats anyone else's. He did not sensationalize it, or come up with fake stories, so unfortunately it was not a commercial success, although it should have been. I respect him for that book.

[B.]

Endless credit goes to people like Chris Christie and Antiliar for their research into these early years. They've provided a solid framework the rest of us can work with. Others have done a great job doing original research into that era, but many lack a deeper cultural and sociological understanding of what the mafia is and how it operates (then and now), while those two were able to use that understanding to make new observations and connections.

Consider that just ten years ago this conversation would be speculation about how the Gambino family was created in 1912 and the Profaci family in 1928 or 1931. Twenty years ago (and still today in many places), this conversation would be about how Lucky Luciano organized the US mafia in 1931 from a coalition of Italian gangs. Now we can say with confidence that the Gambino family goes back to the later 1800s and the Profaci family to at least 1912. No doubt there's more to it than we know, but that's a major ledge we can rest on.

[Antiliar]

Was Charlie Lemons related to Manfredi?

In the restructured family on which Joe Colombo solidified his hold as boss, another tantalizing figure emerged, Charles (Charlie Lemons) Mineo — a stolid, enigmatic figure around whom the storms and rivalries of the Colombo family would continue to swirl in moments of crisis during the years to come. Mineo has become a unique kind of underboss, one who is usually virtually inactive. According to some reports he was an important loan shark in his earlier years but had gradually withdrawn from illegal activities and was enjoying the fruits of retirement when Colombo elevated him to the No. 2 spot in the family. Colombo was said to have been suspicious of the designs of the powerful Carmine Persico and so desired as his chief lieutenant a man who was not so dangerously ambitious. But there may well have been another reason for the selection of Charlie Mineo. His strength then and now appears to be that he is a highly regarded “man of respect” and whenever there is major trouble, capos of all persuasions turn to him. “Even during the Gallo‐Profad war,” one investigator says, “he maintained such a strict neutrality that both Sides trusted him;he was one of the few old‐time leaders the Gallos respected.”

Charlie Mineo is a squat figure, some 5‐feet‐9, 200 pounds, now in his middle 70's. He was born in Palermo, Sicily, on October 18, 1897. He lives quietly. at 42 First Place in Brooklyn, and his favorite haunts are in the same area — a candy store at the corner of Court and First, the Stumble Inn Bar and Grill nearby, and (perhaps most important of all) a handy park bench on Court Street where he likes to sun himself on fine days and chat with friends who just happen to drop by, always with a bodyguard handy a few feet away to make certain that the friends stay really friendly. That park bench and its impassive “man of respect” were to become, extremely important in the scheme of things after Joe Colombo started the ItalianAmerican Civil Rights League.

I traced the family tree of Charlie Mineo and Manfredi Mineo back to the early 1800s and found no relationship. It's possible that if we looked back to 1700 or 1600 there could have been a connection, but it would have been so watered down by the time they were alive that for all intents and purposes they weren't related. It's like every European is somehow descended from Charlemagne, but it's so far back that it's considered unrelated.

[Angelo Santino]

2 - All of that is why Fontana seems to be a missing piece of the puzzle when it comes to the Villabatesi becoming the most dominant faction of the Mineo family by the mid- or late-1920s, especially if they were under D'Aquila circa 1913.

4 - I'm not so sure the Bagheresi were under the Corleonesi based on what's been published.

From your article, Giovanni Pecoraro (who was not from Bagheria or related to Domenico) was an acting leader of the Morello family who was believed killed by D'Aquila men, including a young Philip Mangano. Interestingly Pecoraro's son would become a D'Aquila/Mangano member in the years following his father's murder. Opens up a similar question to the Fontana/Villabatesi situation, where someone close to the victim doesn't simply stay on with the murderer's group (which is common in the mafia) but possibly transfers to the murderer's group. It seems pretty clear, though, that G.Pecoraro was a Morello member but he wasn't from Bagheria.

Domenico Pecoraro from Bagheria appears to have operated closely with Morello and Lupo early on and was a main conspirator in the Catania murder (the victim being a Bagherese), but it doesn't seem obvious that this D.Pecoraro was under Morello, only that they associated. The murder appears to be a collaboration between Morello and Lupo's families (previously and incorrectly believed to be one family), so it's hard to say who the participants were formally affiliated with. I think there are some hints, though...

According to your article, Domenico Pecoraro's paesani Giovanni Zarcone and Nicola Testa from Bagheria were mainly connected to Ignazio Lupo. One of Zarcone's immediate relatives is identified in DC's book as being godfather to Ignazio Lupo, so there is a longstanding relationship there. Zarcone and D.Pecoraro both ended up in Brooklyn, too, which was more closely linked to Lupo at that time. All of this suggests to me that D.Pecoraro, Zarcone, and the Bagheresi were under Lupo. It's interesting, too, that your article points out Lupo was mistaken at one point for being from Bagheria himself.

Then there is the murder victim Giuseppe Catania, who came from Bagheria, owned a butcher shop in Brooklyn, and associated closely with Lupo. Lupo is also suspected of being the one who lured Catania to his murder. I would reason that, like his paesani, Catania was under Lupo as well.

Considering how influential they were early on in NYC and Sicily, the Bagheresi really fell off the map in NYC. They had stronger representation in Milwaukee/Madison, Chicago, San Jose, Utica, and other parts of the US for longer, but despite their early prominence had no enduring representation in NYC families like the Sicilian factions from Villabate, Palermo (the core metropolitan area), Corleone, Castellammare, and Sciacca/Agrigento. I've always found this surprising.

--

Your discovery that Lupo headed his own family changes a lot of things, not that I need to tell you that, and I think there is still a tendency to see some of Morello's associations as signs that certain people were under Morello's family when they were under Lupo. The fact that Morello was boss of bosses also confuses things, as technically everyone in the mafia was "under" him but not everyone was part of his individual family.

And you already know I include Cascio Ferro in all of this. I do speculate that yours' and Antiliar's discovery that Lupo headed his own family makes it more likely that Cascio Ferro was under Lupo, not Morello, which would explain some things, but that's probably best for an existing Cascio Ferro topic: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4357

An important aspect of Lupo, too, is that when he got out of prison he appears to have been close to some Calabrian figures that would be involved with the D'Aquila/Gambino family. The most significant difference between the D'Aquila and Mineo groups to me is that the Mineo/Profaci family would stay almost exclusively Sicilian (and Palermitani at that) until the 1950s while the D'Aquila/Gambino family would include significant factions from Calabria and Agrigento by the 1920s. This accounts not only for D'Aquila's much larger size, but could highlight different philosophies entirely. However, we see that Mineo had no problem becoming boss of the diversified D'Aquila family and sided with the Masseria group, who were by then dominated by mainlanders. Lupo's relationship to the Calabresi is also a question mark in all of this -- would be interesting how his own approach impacted the two groups that appear to have split off from him.

I might be wrong on those from Bagheria. I realize its closer to Palermo than it is to Corleone but so is Piana dei Greci where Giovanni Pecoraro hailed from and he is confirmed to have been one of the ranking men of the NY Corleonese Family from the 1900's until his murder in the 1920's. With Domenico Pecoraro, he was closer to Morello and they both went to New Orleans in 1904 I believe the year was where Morello was wearing a red bandana knotted in a particular way which apparently gave some symbolism. These men were never noticed in the vicinity of anyone else.

With C-Ferro, it's the same thing. From what I've look into, based on informants (Clemente), surveillance almost daily for two years by SS agents who wrote down everywhere he went, everyone he frequented with, he was around Clemente first, then Morello. When there was a meeting of some sort, Lupo appeared with his guys and C-Ferro appeared with Morello. It would be like if Gravano was always around Gigante and appeared with him in sitdowns with/against Gotti. Also, C-Ferro wasn't the only Bisacqunesi under Morello either, there was another individual who's name escapes me for the time being. I have his photo, it's in the charts.

I realize the introduction of the whole compaesani angle is an interesting element but it has its limitations and there's always other factors to consider. It's mostly accurate when it comes to large clusters (Palermo, Corleone, Cast, etc) but at the outskirts there's a grey area.

Bisacquino, technically is closer to Corleone and in the original districts (which the mafia based itself on) Bisacquino fell under that territory. Roccamena also fell under Corleone, however Schiro's mafia connection was through his in-laws family in Camporeale hence his link there and not the Corleone. C.Ferro was likely made in Bisacquino, his affiliations would have started there. I understand that there's letters between C.Ferro and V. DiLeonardo but he was in contact with Morello, this Brancaccio etc, we see a fair mix of members from different affiliations that he was linked to. That's not rare, especially back then for members from different places to know each other and know of each other's reputations.

There's no argument that Bisacquino members later fell under the Gambinos, but with C-Ferro the ONLY thing that would put him as a Gambino would be to overlook everything else, where he lived, who was seen with daily, who he was arrested doing business with and go by the Bisacquino angle alone. I'm not ready to do that. If we were to go by Compaesanismo alone, Masseria should have been with the Sciaccatani Gambino crew, Luciano likely Gambino, Salvatore Pollacia Gambino, Giovanni Pecoraro borderline, however Piani Dei Greci / Albanesi Mafia politics seemed to point towards Palermo as their hub and not Corleone. Regional origins play a very important role but that's not the only factor. Marriage, beefs, where you settled in the US and who introduced them to the mafia etc all can be a factor. Perhaps Morello and D'Aquila's CDC positions influenced certain members when faced with that choice as people want to be closer to power.

[Angelo Santino]

Was Charlie Lemons related to Manfredi?

In the restructured family on which Joe Colombo solidified his hold as boss, another tantalizing figure emerged, Charles (Charlie Lemons) Mineo — a stolid, enigmatic figure around whom the storms and rivalries of the Colombo family would continue to swirl in moments of crisis during the years to come. Mineo has become a unique kind of underboss, one who is usually virtually inactive. According to some reports he was an important loan shark in his earlier years but had gradually withdrawn from illegal activities and was enjoying the fruits of retirement when Colombo elevated him to the No. 2 spot in the family. Colombo was said to have been suspicious of the designs of the powerful Carmine Persico and so desired as his chief lieutenant a man who was not so dangerously ambitious. But there may well have been another reason for the selection of Charlie Mineo. His strength then and now appears to be that he is a highly regarded “man of respect” and whenever there is major trouble, capos of all persuasions turn to him. “Even during the Gallo‐Profad war,” one investigator says, “he maintained such a strict neutrality that both Sides trusted him;he was one of the few old‐time leaders the Gallos respected.”

Charlie Mineo is a squat figure, some 5‐feet‐9, 200 pounds, now in his middle 70's. He was born in Palermo, Sicily, on October 18, 1897. He lives quietly. at 42 First Place in Brooklyn, and his favorite haunts are in the same area — a candy store at the corner of Court and First, the Stumble Inn Bar and Grill nearby, and (perhaps most important of all) a handy park bench on Court Street where he likes to sun himself on fine days and chat with friends who just happen to drop by, always with a bodyguard handy a few feet away to make certain that the friends stay really friendly. That park bench and its impassive “man of respect” were to become, extremely important in the scheme of things after Joe Colombo started the ItalianAmerican Civil Rights League.

I traced the family tree of Charlie Mineo and Manfredi Mineo back to the early 1800s and found no relationship. It's possible that if we looked back to 1700 or 1600 there could have been a connection, but it would have been so watered down by the time they were alive that for all intents and purposes they weren't related. It's like every European is somehow descended from Charlemagne, but it's so far back that it's considered unrelated.

Wasn't there a Bartolo Ferrigno also with the Colombos?

[Chopper]

In my opinion the best books to have an overview of the five families are:

Informer Magazine 2014: The Early New York Mafia and David Critchley Book (1890-1931)
The Mob and the City (1931-1957)
The Five Families (1957-2004) I know that this book has been talking since the 1920s but I think it has some errors, so I prefer this book for the years 1957 until 2004.

The mob and the City by Hortis is an amazing book. The reseach on Apalachin is great. And I love how he just takes apart Joe Bonanno and the whole myth old Joe tried to create around himself. Especially when it concerns drug dealing.

[Wiseguy]

Now we can say with confidence that the Gambino family goes back to the later 1800s and the Profaci family to at least 1912. No doubt there's more to it than we know, but that's a major ledge we can rest on.

Well, that assumes one adheres to the alternative theory put forth in the Informer issue. And from what I can tell, the theory depends on two things: 1) there actually being a clear link or line of succession from Taranto and Lupo (other than both being Palermantani); and 2) Lupo actually running a seperate organization from Morello.

I'm not necessarily taking a firm stance either way, just clarifying the issue. Maybe I missed something when I was reading the article.

[B.]

Now we can say with confidence that the Gambino family goes back to the later 1800s and the Profaci family to at least 1912. No doubt there's more to it than we know, but that's a major ledge we can rest on.

Well, that assumes one adheres to the alternative theory put forth in the Informer issue. And from what I can tell, the theory depends on two things: 1) there actually being a clear link or line of succession from Taranto and Lupo (other than both being Palermantani); and 2) Lupo actually running a seperate organization from Morello.

I'm not necessarily taking a firm stance either way, just clarifying the issue. Maybe I missed something when I was reading the article.

A better way to put it would be to say there was a Palermitani mafia group in NYC by the late 1800s. The nature of mafia relationships, patterns of continuity, and circumstantial evidence give us a strong indication that this evolved into the future Palermitani mafia groups (D'Aquila and Mineo). You are right to question my calling it the "Gambino" family as that's a simplification, but what the article presented was a confident picture of how the Palermitani mafia group(s) evolved in NYC. It's an "alternate" theory to books like the "First Family" in the same way that the "First Family" is an "alternate" theory to the idea that the families were created in 1931.

The article cites informants who referred to Lupo as "rappresentante" and "capo" (both terms that exclusively mean "boss" in traditional mafia terminology), as well as a letter that refers to the "house of Lupo" (a term that was used to denote "family"). This, along with circumstantial info, Lupo's unique relationships to other Palermitani in Palermo and NYC, and the patterns their successors would follow are a strong indication that Lupo was a separate boss from Morello.

There's no argument that Bisacquino members later fell under the Gambinos, but with C-Ferro the ONLY thing that would put him as a Gambino would be to overlook everything else, where he lived, who was seen with daily, who he was arrested doing business with and go by the Bisacquino angle alone. I'm not ready to do that. If we were to go by Compaesanismo alone, Masseria should have been with the Sciaccatani Gambino crew, Luciano likely Gambino, Salvatore Pollacia Gambino, Giovanni Pecoraro borderline, however Piani Dei Greci / Albanesi Mafia politics seemed to point towards Palermo as their hub and not Corleone. Regional origins play a very important role but that's not the only factor. Marriage, beefs, where you settled in the US and who introduced them to the mafia etc all can be a factor. Perhaps Morello and D'Aquila's CDC positions influenced certain members when faced with that choice as people want to be closer to power.

You have a strong argument for him being with Morello and I don't discount that, but I'm not using the "later Bisacquino members = exclusively Gambino" argument as the sole reason to say that Cascio Ferro may have been with Lupo. There are other relationships / info showing that Cascio Ferro was closely tied to the Palermitani element and makes it a little bit murkier when combined with where his paesani ended up. It could just be that he was close with all mafiosi, many of which were Palermitani (which is obviously true), but it's not that I'm convinced he was under Lupo, only that I don't think it's definitive he was under Morello and there is info that would lend itself to a Lupo connection.

Edit: And I want to add, too, that without definitive info confirming his membership, it's hard for me to take too much from his associations. Do we know he attended formal "sitdowns" where he was represented by Morello? And either way, was Morello attending as his boss or the overall boss of bosses? Everything you've noted is important and it gives your take a lot of credence, probably more than what I've said in the eyes of an objective observer, but most of the evidence on Cascio Ferro in NYC is not unlike other early LE / FBN reports to me, where guys were often mistaken for the same group because of shared neighborhoods and close social/business association. There is a long history of guys from different families associating and doing business more with each other than members of their own family. I'm not trying to fit an entire argument through this tiny window of doubt, only saying that there is some window of doubt that makes me question where Cascio Ferro belonged.

Some other aspects of this... his father being from Siculiana, his Palermo birth, and the longtime association between the Bisacquino group and D'Aquila are all personal qualities that would tie him to the make-up of the future D'Aquila group. Letters from Riccobono and DiLeonardo, association with various Agrigentesi, a dinner attended by Palermitani from different NYC mafia groups. These may not paint a convincing argument that he formally belonged with these people in the US, but there is info that suggests he did more than just tail Morello and hang out exclusively with the Corleonesi, and there is the absence of enough info to leave room for doubt (as is true with most mafia history).

The DiLeonardo angle is interesting no matter which way you cut it. Michael DiLeonardo said in an interview that Cascio Ferro sent his great-grandfather Antonino and grandfather Vincenzo to the US from Bisacquino. The letter from V.DiLeonardo to Cascio Ferro during the period of the Petrosino murder confirms a close relationship and appears to be related to mafia activity. Michael may or may not have it 100% right that Cascio Ferro "sent" his relatives to the US, but he doesn't come across as a bullshitter and his statement infers that he was told his relatives had a mafia relationship to Cascio Ferro.

The DiLeonardos were in NYC during the period that Cascio Ferro was, which would suggest they were part of the same group. Maybe not, but that's interesting, too. Or if the DiLeonardos and Cascio Ferro were both with the Corleonesi originally, it would mean that the DiLeonardos split off from the Corleonesi and joined the D'Aquila family, which is interesting as it would mean D'Aquila absorbed some element of Morello's family in addition to Lupo's.

[Angelo Santino]

There's no argument that Bisacquino members later fell under the Gambinos, but with C-Ferro the ONLY thing that would put him as a Gambino would be to overlook everything else, where he lived, who was seen with daily, who he was arrested doing business with and go by the Bisacquino angle alone. I'm not ready to do that. If we were to go by Compaesanismo alone, Masseria should have been with the Sciaccatani Gambino crew, Luciano likely Gambino, Salvatore Pollacia Gambino, Giovanni Pecoraro borderline, however Piani Dei Greci / Albanesi Mafia politics seemed to point towards Palermo as their hub and not Corleone. Regional origins play a very important role but that's not the only factor. Marriage, beefs, where you settled in the US and who introduced them to the mafia etc all can be a factor. Perhaps Morello and D'Aquila's CDC positions influenced certain members when faced with that choice as people want to be closer to power.

You have a strong argument for him being with Morello and I don't discount that, but I'm not using the "later Bisacquino members = exclusively Gambino" argument as the sole reason to say that Cascio Ferro may have been with Lupo. There are other relationships / info showing that Cascio Ferro was closely tied to the Palermitani element and makes it a little bit murkier when combined with where his paesani ended up. It could just be that he was close with all mafiosi, many of which were Palermitani (which is obviously true), but it's not that I'm convinced he was under Lupo, only that I don't think it's definitive he was under Morello and there is info that would lend itself to a Lupo connection.

Edit: And I want to add, too, that without definitive info confirming his membership, it's hard for me to take too much from his associations. Do we know he attended formal "sitdowns" where he was represented by Morello? And either way, was Morello attending as his boss or the overall boss of bosses? Everything you've noted is important and it gives your take a lot of credence, probably more than what I've said in the eyes of an objective observer, but most of the evidence on Cascio Ferro in NYC is not unlike other early LE / FBN reports to me, where guys were often mistaken for the same group because of shared neighborhoods and close social/business association. There is a long history of guys from different families associating and doing business more with each other than members of their own family. I'm not trying to fit an entire argument through this tiny window of doubt, only saying that there is some window of doubt that makes me question where Cascio Ferro belonged.

Some other aspects of this... his father being from Siculiana, his Palermo birth, and the longtime association between the Bisacquino group and D'Aquila are all personal qualities that would tie him to the make-up of the future D'Aquila group. Letters from Riccobono and DiLeonardo, association with various Agrigentesi, a dinner attended by Palermitani from different NYC mafia groups. These may not paint a convincing argument that he formally belonged with these people in the US, but there is info that suggests he did more than just tail Morello and hang out exclusively with the Corleonesi, and there is the absence of enough info to leave room for doubt (as is true with most mafia history).

The DiLeonardo angle is interesting no matter which way you cut it. Michael DiLeonardo said in an interview that Cascio Ferro sent his great-grandfather Antonino and grandfather Vincenzo to the US from Bisacquino. The letter from V.DiLeonardo to Cascio Ferro during the period of the Petrosino murder confirms a close relationship and appears to be related to mafia activity. Michael may or may not have it 100% right that Cascio Ferro "sent" his relatives to the US, but he doesn't come across as a bullshitter and his statement infers that he was told his relatives had a mafia relationship to Cascio Ferro.

The DiLeonardos were in NYC during the period that Cascio Ferro was, which would suggest they were part of the same group. Maybe not, but that's interesting, too. Or if the DiLeonardos and Cascio Ferro were both with the Corleonesi originally, it would mean that the DiLeonardos split off from the Corleonesi and joined the D'Aquila family, which is interesting as it would mean D'Aquila absorbed some element of Morello's family in addition to Lupo's.

Well I can't discount anything entirely. I wasn't there so who's to say he wasn't 'on loan' from Orlando? The interesting thing about CF is he has this reputation as being a founder, inventing the black hand, sending Maranzano to the USA to take it over for him, etc etc. We know and write off many of these claims but the consensus was that he was a visiting dignitary among the US Mafia. And I didn't quite get that impression. He arrived to New York well off but he didn't appear to be "over" anyone. Early on was affiliated with the Salvatore Clemente (all Corleonese and one indiv from a few towns over) counterfeiting crew which ran throughout Manhattan and included his wife Stella Frauto (also of Corleone). After Clemente got jammed up, CF was then then seen almost daily with Morello, coming out of 225 Elizabeth, going to 9 Prince, going over to Williamsburgh, uptown etc. They encountered and dealt with people from Palermo and everywhere else (group affiliation wasn't restricted to just their own group as we see with the CF letters). The SS followed them daily, it's an earlier form of the Sopranos S3 Ep1 where Tony's driving around while the FBI watches and "I'll be watching you" played in the background. Unfortunately we don't have no wiretapped lamps that might have worked... Anyways, at this stage someone who WASN'T around Morello daily was Ignazio Lupo. They knew each other, they had meetings but it was not a daily or even weekly affair. Unless they were meeting at 1am and meetings went unnoticed, Lupo's coming to Little Italy was a planned event. There was one meeting we have, Morello attended with CF and a few others, Lupo attended with his people which included Fanaro. They arrived in separate groups in true mafia form. We don't know what was said or what it was about. One SS agent noted that Lupo "seemed like the leading man" as he did most of the talking while everyone (incl Morello) listened. Sometimes a meeting is just a meeting as GA would say.

What percentage do I believe CF was with the Corleonese, I'd say 70%. Unless he was 'on loan' from the Gambinos. If something later comes out that I'm wrong, I'll freely admit it. But at this point, to me, it's like seeing the Ravenite surveilance videos where Gravano's constantly alongside Gotti. We can find other photos of Gravano around other affiliated members but 80/90% of the time, he was around one crew. I see that with CF and the Corleonese over the span of several years.

CF's from an area that is close to the Palermo province / Agrigento border and within the realm of mafia territories it's a very grey area and people from that area had contact with both groups. Two other names that are very questionable are Salvatore Cina and Giuseppe Giglio (I might have the first names wrong, they were brother in laws, I disremember the exact town (Bivona?) off hand but I believe one or both came in from NO to NY by way of Tampa. Their affiliation seems like it could point either way. Same goes for Cecala who was on a manifest w both D'Aquila and Traina, could that have been coincidental or does that point to affiliation? It's very difficult.

According to Antonio Comito, the poor sap who was unwittingly taken advantage of when the mafia strong armed him into a counterfeiting ring would recollect Cecala saying something along the lines of "then I hooked up with Morello." I have many issues with Comito's story, I do not find it creditable and he did things before and after the case (such as going back to look for the notes) which indicate he wasn't an innocent dupe. I think he claimed he could do the work, fucked it up and pissed them off and when they got arrested he cried that the mafia strong armed him. Even so, there's things he wouldn't lie about, such as Lupo and Saracino / Palermo who both appeared to be people of some rank. But given that this was a trans-family counterfeit scheme, it included members of different affiliations involved.

And interestingly, it was Corleonese Clemente in 1914 who got word from CF's nephew that CF was now the "boss of the entire mafia in Sicily." I don't know how accurate that is, I interpret it as CF's stature rising after and not before his time in the US. So regardless of what affiliation he was, we can probably write off that he was an American Mafia shareholder or organizer.

And I'd further say that all mafiosi were close to the Palermitani. Palermo is to Sicily what NY was to the US, nearly everyone was linked to those cities in some form. However, unlike America in Sicily mafia leaders from other provinces would move to Palermo almost like they were senators. Maranzano is one example. Further, in the early 1890's Morello was not exclusively in East Harlem, he was also active down in Little Italy with the Palermitans. Meaning if he arrived in NY as a mafioso and the Corleonese family hadn't been established yet, he would have been technically a Gambino to start.

The important thing to remember, and I'm not speaking to you B, is that once a city has formal reputation another group cannot form without permission. It's not like Morello, Mineo and Orlando could arrive in NY and tell the original group to go and fuck themselves. They would ask permission, and given that the mafia at this stage didn't view these matters as "losing earners" a separate sizable faction could likely get permission. Although we don't really know how that works. Again, why didn't the Scacciatani become the 5th or 6th family? We'll never know. Things happen how they happen and we can just observe it.

[Pogo The Clown]

Wasn't there a Bartolo Ferrigno also with the Colombos?

Yes. He was born around 1902 so a possible relative of the other Ferrigno?


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

Wasn't there a Bartolo Ferrigno also with the Colombos?

Yes. He was born around 1902 so a possible relative of the other Ferrigno?


Pogo

That's a good question.

I never looked into it. I think I heard somewhere or other that it was his "brother" but it seems like I'd remember that as it would be another connection. Maybe Antiliar looked into it?

[johnny_scootch]

Wasn't there a Bartolo Ferrigno also with the Colombos?

Yes. He was born around 1902 so a possible relative of the other Ferrigno?


Pogo

That's a good question.

I never looked into it. I think I heard somewhere or other that it was his "brother" but it seems like I'd remember that as it would be another connection. Maybe Antiliar looked into it?

For what it’s worth (not much) Wikipedia entry for Steve Ferrigno has Bartolo (Barioco Bartulucia) Ferrigno as his brother but it also says Steve was involved with the Coney Island Neapolitan gang of Pellegrino Morano which is something I’ve never heard although I don’t know much about them to begin with.

Ferrigno was born in Sicily and emigrated to the United States. During the 1910s, the teenaged Ferrigno joined New York's Italian underworld. Ferrigno worked his way up the ranks of the Coney Island, Brooklyn based Neapolitan Camorra crime family led by Pellegrino "Don Grino" Morano and his top Lieutenant, Alessandro Vollero, who led the Navy Street Gang. It is not known why Ferrigno, a Sicilian, was affiliated with a Neapolitan crime group, which in that era was highly unusual. A possible explanation is that Ferrigno grew up in the same Brooklyn neighborhood as the Neapolitans. Steve Ferrigno was the brother of Colombo crime family street soldier Bartolo (Barioco Bartulucia) Ferrigno, who was active in organized crime during the 1940s and 1950s. He served under the rule of Joseph Magliocco and was later implicated in drug trafficking and other crimes by government witness Joseph Valachi.

[Angelo Santino]

Wasn't there a Bartolo Ferrigno also with the Colombos?

Yes. He was born around 1902 so a possible relative of the other Ferrigno?


Pogo

That's a good question.

I never looked into it. I think I heard somewhere or other that it was his "brother" but it seems like I'd remember that as it would be another connection. Maybe Antiliar looked into it?

For what it’s worth (not much) Wikipedia entry for Steve Ferrigno has Bartolo (Barioco Bartulucia) Ferrigno as his brother but it also says Steve was involved with the Coney Island Neapolitan gang of Pellegrino Morano which is something I’ve never heard although I don’t know much about them to begin with.

Ferrigno was born in Sicily and emigrated to the United States. During the 1910s, the teenaged Ferrigno joined New York's Italian underworld. Ferrigno worked his way up the ranks of the Coney Island, Brooklyn based Neapolitan Camorra crime family led by Pellegrino "Don Grino" Morano and his top Lieutenant, Alessandro Vollero, who led the Navy Street Gang. It is not known why Ferrigno, a Sicilian, was affiliated with a Neapolitan crime group, which in that era was highly unusual. A possible explanation is that Ferrigno grew up in the same Brooklyn neighborhood as the Neapolitans. Steve Ferrigno was the brother of Colombo crime family street soldier Bartolo (Barioco Bartulucia) Ferrigno, who was active in organized crime during the 1940s and 1950s. He served under the rule of Joseph Magliocco and was later implicated in drug trafficking and other crimes by government witness Joseph Valachi.

Yeah that's all new to me too.

[johnny_scootch]

Wasn't there a Bartolo Ferrigno also with the Colombos?

Yes. He was born around 1902 so a possible relative of the other Ferrigno?


Pogo

That's a good question.

I never looked into it. I think I heard somewhere or other that it was his "brother" but it seems like I'd remember that as it would be another connection. Maybe Antiliar looked into it?

Another clue that points towards them being brothers is the fact that Bartolo had a son named Stephen who born 6 years after the murder of Stefano, seems logical he would name his son after his deceased brother.

Bartolo's father is Gaetano and his mother is Santa Schiro. Anyone have info on Stefano's parents?? I can't find anything.

Pogo I have him in the FBN book and the 1940 census as being born in 1904.