Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Lupara]

It's now 2020. My bodyguard is dead and Todaro still lives and sells pizza. He played this one beautifully.

May Buffalo's resurgance be a masculine resurgance and their reign lasting a thousand years having an empire covering the size of France. The fed's intel is gone and there's nothing they can do about it. Felice anno nuovo!

[TommyNoto]

We've all been curious about the statement that Joe Violi had the choice of being made into the WNY-Ontario or Bonanno family. I wonder about the specifics of that choice. What crew would he report to if he became a Bonanno member in Ontario?

- Morena was made into the Bonanno family in Ontario, but was assigned to an NYC crew. We were able to deduce that he was most likely part of the Asaro crew, as Zummo was about to become an acting captain, replacing another acting captain, and previously lived in Middle Village / Ridgewood / Howard Beach along with Morena and associate Ragusa. All of this matches with the Asaro / Giallanza crew and their situation at the time. These may be coincidences, but Zummo also appears to be of Trapanesi heritage like many Asaro crew members and the Asaros also have a history with Canada -- interesting either way.

- It's strange to think of an Ontario member reporting to a crew in NYC, as Morena was, but this might explain Violi's presence at the induction ceremony. While Morena wouldn't report to Violi, there may have been an arrangement that he could seek counsel from Violi in matters that needed immediate attention given Violi was the highest ranking member in Ontario. Violi's presence at the induction would have made this arrangement semi-formal, I suppose.

- Would that mean that Joe Violi would also report to an NYC crew if he were made into the Bonannos? Not necessarily, as Morena was from the Middle Village area originally which is why he was connected to that crew. But then again, Morena's induction in Ontario and connection to the Violis shows that the Bonannos were planting a new flag in Ontario separate from their previous Canadian crew. The Bonannos may have had plans for more than simply Morena in that area.

- It would be helpful to know who would have proposed Joe Violi for membership had he chosen to join the Bonannos. Would it have been the Zummo group, like with Morena, or someone else? Interesting to consider the idea of the Zummo group having two Ontario-based soldiers, both of which received local counsel from the Buffalo underboss, who was also the brother of one of the Bonanno soldiers. A lot of speculation here, but it's as likely as anything else in this mysterious situation.

- Domenico Violi appears to have been on good terms with Arcadi, a Cotroni, and others in the Bonanno Montreal group, which suggests his brother may have been welcomed into their fold where their father and paternal uncles once were. The Bonanno Montreal crew has also had members in Ontario throughout their history, so it would not be an anomaly to have another member there.

And maybe the biggest question for me is:

- Was Domenico Violi given the same choice that Joe Violi was given? If so, it makes his promotion to underboss that much more interesting, as choosing the Bonannos would not only have affected Buffalo's membership but also their administration.

Joe Violi's "options" also suggest that there was an agreement between the Buffalo and Bonanno groups. I can't imagine he was told he had a choice without both groups' knowledge and consent, though it's funny to think about the alternative: "You can either join us or join the Bonanno family. The Bonannos don't know about this, but you can ask them."

This exactly , we now have 2 members taking about being made into Buffalo. Like CC says , it doesn’t matter what I think not should anyone care lol, it seems wise guys consider them a family so it is what it is.

[TommyNoto]

Excellent work B. Very interesting

[TommyNoto]

So we have John zanncocchio before he was allegedly shelved, telling “buffalo guys” that morena was a made member. Basically introducing morena as a made man of the bonnanos to guys in buffalo. Why would he do that if buffalo was not relevant? If the remaining buffalo guys were retired nobody would give a shit to introduce morena to them. And this is according to morena, not violi

Again we already knew this and covered this. Now where is all this Buffalo activity you keep talking about?

The Feds did admit Italian Organized Crime in Western NY, they just didn’t specify if it was the Buffalo family.

Actually they didn't even go that far. If you read the actual indictment it says Bongiovanni was dealing with individuals who, among others, he believed were IOC. So from the wording of it sounds like he was taking bribes from different dealers and some them he believed were IOC. Also if I remember right a snippet was released showing Biongiovanni meeting with guys from Toronto.


Pogo

I prefer to pass on discussing this subject with you and WG as it’s pointless and a waste of time for all of us lol

It’s funny how the brain works as I took that sentence to mean he was working with individuals of IOC in WNY. Basically Feds admitting their is active IOC in WNY. They just punted in naming the families involved. “ In the “ being the key words IMO

This IMO dovetails with the Violi bust where Canada authorities identified the Todaro family in a large task force with 150+ officers. They divided the investigation up with Canada handling CA / WNY area while Feds handled NY Bonnano / Gambino side of the investigation.


Bongiovanni’s friends included “individuals he believed to be members of, connected to, or associated with Italian Organized Crime (IOC) in the Western District of New York and elsewhere,”

[TommyNoto]

Essentially the Feds have acknowledged an IOC entity ( with members ) exists in WNY . That’s how I read it

[B.]

Also, re: Violi / Bonanno Montreal crew.

- Domenico Violi told Morena that the "old barriers" were gone and everyone was working together, referring to the Montreal group and presumably the violent conflict that had taken place there that created "barriers". Whether this was solely in reference to the Bonanno Montreal group(s) or also included the relationship between Montreal and Ontario isn't clear, but given the context it seems Violi was including the Buffalo-Ontario group(s) in this discussion, implying that Montreal was in harmony with itself as well as Ontario (for the moment he was speaking, at least).

- However, the idea of the "old barriers" being gone is an interesting comment when we consider that Joe Violi was given the choice between the Buffalo and Bonanno families. Obviously there were still Buffalo and Bonanno groups operating as separate organizations in Canada, but did the breakdown of these "barriers" have any bearing on Violi being given a choice in affiliation?

- Violi told Morena that he could introduce him to Frank Arcadi, Frank Cotroni Jr., and Tony Mucci. This is very interesting, as Morena was a Bonanno member and those three were part of the Bonanno Montreal crew. We don't know the exact relationship these men still had to the NYC Bonanno leadership, which Morena reported to, but the fact that Violi was willing to introduce a new Canadian Bonanno member to these Montreal figures suggests that there was no cause for concern in making this introduction. If the Montreal figures were at odds with the NYC Bonanno family, I can't imagine Violi would introduce them to a new Bonanno member who reported to NYC.

- To add to the above, Morena was a Giannini guy and Zummo likely came from that crowd as well based on his background and associations. Sal Montagna was close to a number of Giannini guys and hung around that crowd himself, so there is potential that Morena himself could be peripherally connected to Montagna, which adds another potential angle to Violi being willing to introduce Morena to Montreal figures. Would Sal Montagna's name have any bearing on the situation? If so, it apparently wasn't a problem. If not, that's interesting too.

- The Buffalo / Ontario situation is the best comparison we have to the Bonanno / Montreal situation. Despite the violence involving important Ontario figures and seemingly more "activity" in Ontario than Buffalo, Ontario-based members who were historically under the Buffalo family have continued their affiliation with the Buffalo group. In Montreal there has also been violence and a high level of "activity", so it could be an indication that the Montreal figures (at least some of them) have continued their affiliation with the Bonannos. This would be unsurprising to me personally, as this is how the mafia works unless a group is given formal approval to split off or join another group (in the same fashion that Todaro consulted NYC about Violi's promotion to underboss in Canada). Where the Buffalo-Ontario and Bonanno-Montreal comparison ends is that Ontario is next door to Buffalo, while Montreal is a good distance from NYC. History shows though that distance doesn't impact mafia politics and affiliations as much as outsiders would assume.

[CabriniGreen]

Also, re: Violi / Bonanno Montreal crew.

- Domenico Violi told Morena that the "old barriers" were gone and everyone was working together, referring to the Montreal group and presumably the violent conflict that had taken place there that created "barriers". Whether this was solely in reference to the Bonanno Montreal group(s) or also included the relationship between Montreal and Ontario isn't clear, but given the context it seems Violi was including the Buffalo-Ontario group(s) in this discussion, implying that Montreal was in harmony with itself as well as Ontario (for the moment he was speaking, at least).

- However, the idea of the "old barriers" being gone is an interesting comment when we consider that Joe Violi was given the choice between the Buffalo and Bonanno families. Obviously there were still Buffalo and Bonanno groups operating as separate organizations in Canada, but did the breakdown of these "barriers" have any bearing on Violi being given a choice in affiliation?

- Violi told Morena that he could introduce him to Frank Arcadi, Frank Cotroni Jr., and Tony Mucci. This is very interesting, as Morena was a Bonanno member and those three were part of the Bonanno Montreal crew. We don't know the exact relationship these men still had to the NYC Bonanno leadership, which Morena reported to, but the fact that Violi was willing to introduce a new Canadian Bonanno member to these Montreal figures suggests that there was no cause for concern in making this introduction. If the Montreal figures were at odds with the NYC Bonanno family, I can't imagine Violi would introduce them to a new Bonanno member who reported to NYC.

- To add to the above, Morena was a Giannini guy and Zummo likely came from that crowd as well based on his background and associations. Sal Montagna was close to a number of Giannini guys and hung around that crowd himself, so there is potential that Morena himself could be peripherally connected to Montagna, which adds another potential angle to Violi being willing to introduce Morena to Montreal figures. Would Sal Montagna's name have any bearing on the situation? If so, it apparently wasn't a problem. If not, that's interesting too.

- The Buffalo / Ontario situation is the best comparison we have to the Bonanno / Montreal situation. Despite the violence involving important Ontario figures and seemingly more "activity" in Ontario than Buffalo, Ontario-based members who were historically under the Buffalo family have continued their affiliation with the Buffalo group. In Montreal there has also been violence and a high level of "activity", so it could be an indication that the Montreal figures (at least some of them) have continued their affiliation with the Bonannos. This would be unsurprising to me personally, as this is how the mafia works unless a group is given formal approval to split off or join another group (in the same fashion that Todaro consulted NYC about Violi's promotion to underboss in Canada). Where the Buffalo-Ontario and Bonanno-Montreal comparison ends is that Ontario is next door to Buffalo, while Montreal is a good distance from NYC. History shows though that distance doesn't impact mafia politics and affiliations as much as outsiders would assume.

What did you think of Renauds article, when he said the Cotroni group was losing power?

In fact, what did you think about the last three or four articles recently?

And WHO was extorting the Acuris and Gallos?

[CabriniGreen]

Also, I think the Violis said this, as the Scoppas were still aggressors, so it couldnt have been all handshakes and kisses.... What's the exact timeline? When did Violi say that, versus the hits on Spagnolo, and the others?

It's why i asked were the Violis aware of the Scoppas intrigues when they said that.....

Arcadi is said to be back into the fold.... The question is are the Violis on good terms with the Rizzutos, are the Rizzutos reconciled with the Bonnanos?

[B.]

It's difficult to interpret some of the analysis from Canadian journalists, as their writing tends to reflect the information they receive from LE, which in Canada takes a much different approach to mafia investigation. The journalists also appear to do a lot of guesswork based on general associations. Looking at Ontario again for comparison, the picture we had of the Violis and Luppinos was presented much differently by LE and journalists over the years compared to what we learned through Morena's cooperation, which made Violi and the Luppinos' affiliation with Buffalo perfectly clear and in accordance with the history of the region.

Just a random example of what I mean from a 2019 Renaud article -- he says the "Cotroni clan" joined the "Rizzuto clan" after they came to power in the 1980s. They were all made members of the same organization already and when there is a conflict in a mafia group the different factions almost always fall back together, at least until they come into conflict again, but even in those times of conflict they are still members of the same organization. It's not that those factions are unimportant and shouldn't be distinguished from each other, it's that they are written about as if they are members of different organizations. And that is Renaud talking about well-known Montreal history, so the idea of someone trying to piece together currently unfolding events involving modern figures whose roles aren't entirely clear makes me hesitant to trust articles.

What makes the Violi / Morena situation different is that the articles about it were based on recordings of mafia members discussing mafia politics as played in court. I won't be fully comfortable with any information on Canada (or anywhere for that matter) unless information from member informants or tapes of members are made. The Violi situation is extremely valuable because it contained both a member informant operating in Canada and tapes of Canadian-based members of US Cosa Nostra families talking to each other about Cosa Nostra -- a rarity in Canada.

[Stroccos]

It's difficult to interpret some of the analysis from Canadian journalists, as their writing tends to reflect the information they receive from LE, which in Canada takes a much different approach to mafia investigation. The journalists also appear to do a lot of guesswork based on general associations. Looking at Ontario again for comparison, the picture we had of the Violis and Luppinos was presented much differently by LE and journalists over the years compared to what we learned through Morena's cooperation, which made Violi and the Luppinos' affiliation with Buffalo perfectly clear and in accordance with the history of the region.

Just a random example of what I mean from a 2019 Renaud article -- he says the "Cotroni clan" joined the "Rizzuto clan" after they came to power in the 1980s. They were all made members of the same organization already and when there is a conflict in a mafia group the different factions almost always fall back together, at least until they come into conflict again, but even in those times of conflict they are still members of the same organization. It's not that those factions are unimportant and shouldn't be distinguished from each other, it's that they are written about as if they are members of different organizations. And that is Renaud talking about well-known Montreal history, so the idea of someone trying to piece together currently unfolding events involving modern figures whose roles aren't entirely clear makes me hesitant to trust articles.

What makes the Violi / Morena situation different is that the articles about it were based on recordings of mafia members discussing mafia politics as played in court. I won't be fully comfortable with any information on Canada (or anywhere for that matter) unless information from member informants or tapes of members are made. The Violi situation is extremely valuable because it contained both a member informant operating in Canada and tapes of Canadian-based members of US Cosa Nostra families talking to each other about Cosa Nostra -- a rarity in Canada.

interesting points , i was hoping zummo would go to trial then i think the feds would be forced to produce allot more of there evidence

[Targenmantarian]

So we have John zanncocchio before he was allegedly shelved, telling “buffalo guys” that morena was a made member. Basically introducing morena as a made man of the bonnanos to guys in buffalo. Why would he do that if buffalo was not relevant? If the remaining buffalo guys were retired nobody would give a shit to introduce morena to them. And this is according to morena, not violi

Again we already knew this and covered this. Now where is all this Buffalo activity you keep talking about?

The Feds did admit Italian Organized Crime in Western NY, they just didn’t specify if it was the Buffalo family.

Actually they didn't even go that far. If you read the actual indictment it says Bongiovanni was dealing with individuals who, among others, he believed were IOC. So from the wording of it sounds like he was taking bribes from different dealers and some them he believed were IOC. Also if I remember right a snippet was released showing Biongiovanni meeting with guys from Toronto.


Pogo

I prefer to pass on discussing this subject with you and WG as it’s pointless and a waste of time for all of us lol

It’s funny how the brain works as I took that sentence to mean he was working with individuals of IOC in WNY. Basically Feds admitting their is active IOC in WNY. They just punted in naming the families involved. “ In the “ being the key words IMO

This IMO dovetails with the Violi bust where Canada authorities identified the Todaro family in a large task force with 150+ officers. They divided the investigation up with Canada handling CA / WNY area while Feds handled NY Bonnano / Gambino side of the investigation.


Bongiovanni’s friends included “individuals he believed to be members of, connected to, or associated with Italian Organized Crime (IOC) in the Western District of New York and elsewhere,”

I don't know if an introduction alone as Amico Nostro to other made guys or even bringing someone in to do business is indicative of the overall health of any single family.

If there's a random guy left in Denver or Seattle or Wilkes Barre and they are in good standing and they know someone else in good standing then they will be introduced if there's other made guys around for them to meet socially. And if there's business then they'll all do business if it makes financial sense.

I don't think anyone would pass on introductions just based in a family being moribund. Big Billy was doing all kinda of business as a one man family as were others.

I have no idea what's up with Buffalo. That's just my two cents.

If LoScalzo is in Manhattan or Brooklyn for some reason then someone is going to take him around to meet everyone he hasn't met and to introduce him as a made guy from Tampa. That's a huge part of being in the organization that fraternal socialization on equal terms. Whether you're from the Genovese or the last guy in your city.

[Lupara]

Another question which I think is important: why would a Buffalo member have to introduce (alleged) members of the Bonannos to each other? Isn't that unusual and shouldn't it be a Bonanno who introduces members of their family to each other? Also, wouldn't a phonecall from someone from New York be sufficient to introduce Moreno to people in Montreal? And last but not least, could it be indicative that the Montreal group is no longer part of the Bonannos if a Buffalo member has to make the introductions?

[Targenmantarian]

Another question which I think is important: why would a Buffalo member have to introduce (alleged) members of the Bonannos to each other? Isn't that unusual and shouldn't it be a Bonanno who introduces members of their family to each other? Also, wouldn't a phonecall from someone from New York be sufficient to introduce Moreno to people in Montreal? And last but not least, could it be indicative that the Montreal group is no longer part of the Bonannos if a Buffalo member has to make the introductions?

That is weird. But it would depend on what family and which guys etc.

In a huge family with 100+ 150+? made guys and the current level of surveillance and law enforcement it may be possible that there's Bonnanos who Don't see or even know one another.

Gone are the days when soldiers would bounce and go from club to club and crew to crew shooting the shit. Fear of rats probably keeps different factions almost completely isolated.

So it's possible maybe that one guy in Buffalo knows some five family guys that other guys in the same family don't know as well.

Cause you can envision a scenario where capos are so paranoid that they don't even want to reach out to make intros.

Once someone or a crew gets indicted it's like they have AIDS. No one wants to touch em. Multiply that hundreds of times over and you can see there's fragmentation.

[johnny_scootch]

Another question which I think is important: why would a Buffalo member have to introduce (alleged) members of the Bonannos to each other? Isn't that unusual and shouldn't it be a Bonanno who introduces members of their family to each other? Also, wouldn't a phonecall from someone from New York be sufficient to introduce Moreno to people in Montreal? And last but not least, could it be indicative that the Montreal group is no longer part of the Bonannos if a Buffalo member has to make the introductions?

I'm sure you know about the 3rd party introduction protocol and it can't be accomplished over the phone under normal circumstances. It's probably one of the reasons Violi attended the Morena ceremony, so there would be someone up there to help make the proper introductions. If the ceremony took place in Brooklyn they wouldn't need a guy from another family to do it but we are talking about Hamilton not Bensonhurst. Zummo and Zancocchio (I believe he was the 'John' who also attended the ceremony) probably didn't stay up there long enough to make many introductions on Morena's behalf. They certainly didn't all jump in the car and make the 6 hour drive to Montreal to introduce him around either.

[stubbs]

Great stuff B and everyone else!

My question is: Does Buffalo traditionally control all of Ontario? Like not just the city of Hamilton, but the entire province including Toronto?