Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[TommyNoto]

Agreed!.... makes sense. There is “something” there. In fact, way more than just something. They are an “entity”!

I believe Canadian authorities have already stated the Tudaro family exists and given the situation in Canada they likely have excellent sources.

My guess is they are working with Canada ( especially with DEA on payroll ) on moving drugs into NY with Bonnano / Gambino’s

Like us the Feds might not know what to call it , so used Italian Organized Crime in their most recent indictment/ investigations. Seems like a bunch of family working together to secure drug routes.

That makes sense Tommy.

This one is pretty good to as it has the other Violi on tape debating getting made into Buffalo or Bonnano ( 2 mafia members on tale admitting to Buffalo family ). Christie made a great point that it’s not what we think merits a family , it’s clear LCN recognizes Buffalo. NY admin member going up there supports this as well IMO

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... d-a-mafia/

[johnny_scootch]

Boss: a retired guy who makes pizza all day.

Completely false.

Captain: a newly named captain of the Canadian crew (consisting of who, again?)

Probably some of those phantom members you mentioned.

[SonnyBlackstein]

@Wiseguy: the clear difference in stance here WG, is simply this. Forget the point. Or the the argument. Or it’s weight, from either perspective. This is the problem which, I do sincerely hope your good self and pogo consider.

You have beyond reproach posters who’ve history and adherence to evidence and skepticism and patience and maturity in dealing with this complicated subject who are.... willing to consider an alternative position contrary to historical precedent but doing so considering the weight of evidence and have reached no other position than this at a minimum.... there exists a case for a rational conclusion for the existence of a Buffalo Family.
I chose that wording carefully. There exists a case. Some of these posters have said the evidence suggests or even concludes to, an active, recognized family. But AT A MINIMUM, their position isn’t even this but simply that there, exists a case for that argument.

You both won’t even acknowledge that there’s sufficient evidence for a case. And do so with condescending scorn and derision.

The pushback from the most respected posters comes, in that your refusal to have an open mind. To CONSIDER. Your use of definitives precludes even the entertainment of the possibility that your conclusion could be wrong.
This is where the pushback lies.

Not in the weakness of your argument, but in the absolute denial of anything other than your position. From day one to now your position has not changed. Which means the evidence that has come to light has not been judged on its own merit, but that unless reinforces your own narrative it is dismissed regardless of its weight.

This is not how you win minds or arguments. Subject be damned.

[maxiestern11]

Agreed!.... makes sense. There is “something” there. In fact, way more than just something. They are an “entity”!

I believe Canadian authorities have already stated the Tudaro family exists and given the situation in Canada they likely have excellent sources.

My guess is they are working with Canada ( especially with DEA on payroll ) on moving drugs into NY with Bonnano / Gambino’s

Like us the Feds might not know what to call it , so used Italian Organized Crime in their most recent indictment/ investigations. Seems like a bunch of family working together to secure drug routes.

That makes sense Tommy.

https://www.ppsc-sppc.gc.ca/eng/tra/tr/15a.html


This is a pretty decent article , Project OTremens used over 150 police officers involving large quantity of drugs . It was a major task force. Interesting they left Hamilton LE out of it for fear they have been bought off.

It seems Canada LE focused on the Hamilton / Buffalo area while FBI handled Bonnano / Gambino elements which makes sense

Add in the recent made man bust, DEA agent bust and the big weed bust and things sure look interesting in Buffalo again

200 kilo coke , 40 kilo heroin, 260k pills is not small time IMO, they seem to be moving weight

I’m definitely gonna read it Tommy. I think you and I are on the same page as far as the Buffalo crew goes.

[Moscone65]

@Wiseguy: the clear difference in stance here WG, is simply this. Forget the point. Or the the argument. Or it’s weight, from either perspective. This is the problem which, I do sincerely hope your good self and pogo consider.

You have beyond reproach posters who’ve history and adherence to evidence and skepticism and patience and maturity in dealing with this complicated subject who are.... willing to consider an alternative position contrary to historical precedent but doing so considering the weight of evidence and have reached no other position than this at a minimum.... there exists a case for a rational conclusion for the existence of a Buffalo Family.
I chose that wording carefully. There exists a case. Some of these posters have said the evidence suggests or even concludes to, an active, recognized family. But AT A MINIMUM, their position isn’t even this but simply that there, exists a case for that argument.

You both won’t even acknowledge that there’s sufficient evidence for a case. And do so with condescending scorn and derision.

The pushback from the most respected posters comes, in that your refusal to have an open mind. To CONSIDER. Your use of definitives precludes even the entertainment of the possibility that your conclusion could be wrong.
This is where the pushback lies.

Not in the weakness of your argument, but in the absolute denial of anything other than your position. From day one to now your position has not changed. Which means the evidence that has come to light has not been judged on its own merit, but that unless reinforces your own narrative it is dismissed regardless of its weight.

This is not how you win minds or arguments. Subject be damned.

Very true

[Angelo Santino]

I would say that example from Philadelphia is, itself, an anomaly. Some members there or not, the Philadelphia family has no real presence in New England. But yes, there is a difference between Philadelphia making a half dozen guys and Buffalo making 20. That anyone thinks it's possible for a family like Buffalo to make nearly as many guys as they had 14 years ago is proof enough they don't pay attention.

What I've said repeatedly about perspective. In the past 22 years Philly, which is still recognized by LE and has shown to be the most active family outside NY, has not even come close to replacing all the members they have lost to attrition. Nevermind actually growing again. Even with the 6-8 making ceremonies they've held.


But we are to be believe that a dormant family like Buffalo, which had been shrinknig for decades, not only replaced all their lost members but actually grew by 1/3 in 10 years? And not only growing but having all these 20 new members and their criminal activity escape the attention of the FBI, state and local LE over a several year span? Isn't it far more likely and realistic that Violi's statement was just a passing comment not be taken at face value?


Pogo

Given who Violi was around and where he operated, to inflate his underworld standing as a 2nd in control of a crime family with 30 members would, if from out of nowhere, spread like wildfire and questions raised. The implications of his fabricating it could range from mockery to a death sentence depending on who his enemies were/are. IF Violi was throwing his weight around as a Buffalo rep with no one else, NY would most likely be reached out to from Hamilton/Toronto, "is this guy anybody?" Given his contacts with the Bonannos in NY and Montreal, that question likely didn't have to be raised. Unless Zannocchio was trout fishing in Canada and his proximity was a coincidence.

The argument I'm seeing now is that if there's an underboss or a captain then it's irrelevant because it's destined to fail. If Todaro, Violi and Luppino hold those titles and the rest of the mafia biosphere recognizes them then its settled. Sorry to harp on it, but it's their organization, it doesn't matter if Todaro's a secret supercriminal masquerading as an ah' beetz aficionado or works as a sanitation engineer in fast food, the recognition of his status by other groups is what makes the mafia the mafia more so than an intact hierarchy. We seen this in Cleveland with Tronolone being boss despite living in Florida since the 60's followed by Iaccobacci who's another one man family in the area. We can all look at this and conclude correctly and with accuracy that it's over, it's not coming back. However when Fratianno tried to move into SF he could not and needed these old mummies' permission. And does anyone think any local criminals approached Big Billy in the 90's or Joe Loose last year and said: "Well, according to the FBI you're no longer viable so I'm gonna do what I want and you can't do anything about it."? Salut.

[Angelo Santino]

Boss: a retired guy who makes pizza all day.

Completely false.

Captain: a newly named captain of the Canadian crew (consisting of who, again?)

Probably some of those phantom members you mentioned.

Neither matter. Todaro could be in a homeless shelter and Luppino have zero (0) men under him. if Canada and NY recognize them as Boss and Captain that carries more weight than what we, as outsiders, think or wish to opine over. Discussions on their viability, longevity and power is a separate albeit, important part when forming a working understanding of what's going on but it doesn't supersede what the mafia's own members recognize as what is and what isn't within their secret criminal society.

[Lupara]

Given who Violi was around and where he operated, to inflate his underworld standing as a 2nd in control of a crime family with 30 members would, if from out of nowhere, spread like wildfire and questions raised. The implications of his fabricating it could range from mockery to a death sentence depending on who his enemies were/are. IF Violi was throwing his weight around as a Buffalo rep with no one else, NY would most likely be reached out to from Hamilton/Toronto, "is this guy anybody?" Given his contacts with the Bonannos in NY and Montreal, that question likely didn't have to be raised. Unless Zannocchio was trout fishing in Canada and his proximity was a coincidence.

Bulletproof argument. Either Violi will face the consequences for fabricating his status or his words hold merit, moreso than a federal agent. This alone should conclude this debate, for now.

But ofcourse it won't because certain people here won't have it. Somehow they ignore that after 3000 posts most people's perspective on this subject has not changed much. So where do we go from here?

[Angelo Santino]

Given who Violi was around and where he operated, to inflate his underworld standing as a 2nd in control of a crime family with 30 members would, if from out of nowhere, spread like wildfire and questions raised. The implications of his fabricating it could range from mockery to a death sentence depending on who his enemies were/are. IF Violi was throwing his weight around as a Buffalo rep with no one else, NY would most likely be reached out to from Hamilton/Toronto, "is this guy anybody?" Given his contacts with the Bonannos in NY and Montreal, that question likely didn't have to be raised. Unless Zannocchio was trout fishing in Canada and his proximity was a coincidence.

Bulletproof argument. Either Violi will face the consequences for fabricating his status or his words hold merit, moreso than a federal agent. This alone should conclude this debate, for now.

But ofcourse it won't because certain people here won't have it. Somehow they ignore that after 3000 posts most people's perspective on this subject has not changed much. So where do we go from here?

I concur with WG and Pogo regarding the low probability that any active member in one of the US Families is operating "under the radar" (within the US). And what's come out of Buffalo seems to coincide and validate that measuring tool. If there was an attempt at undergoing a resurgence under the radar then they failed miserably. What comes next remains for all us to just wait and see. If in the next ten years nothing comes out and Violi was a one-time anomaly, I will be just fine with that, I don't need it be anything other than what it is, I don't play Fantasy Family nor does it seem like any of the participants in this thread are either. I went from thinking it was dead to believing something is back based on what's come out, I don't think I'm someone who jumps to conclusions without evidence.

But if the alternative comes out and the FBI eventually confirms it, I truly hope the opposing side will be ready to acknowledge it without trying to argue what they think the FBI really meant. And in turn, if it goes that way, this side of the arguments needs to be respectful and avoid resorting it into a "gotcha." We all should be on the side of truth. Salut.

[Pogo The Clown]

Given who Violi was around and where he operated, to inflate his underworld standing as a 2nd in control of a crime family with 30 members would, if from out of nowhere, spread like wildfire and questions raised. The implications of his fabricating it could range from mockery to a death sentence depending on who his enemies were/are. IF Violi was throwing his weight around as a Buffalo rep with no one else, NY would most likely be reached out to from Hamilton/Toronto, "is this guy anybody?" Given his contacts with the Bonannos in NY and Montreal, that question likely didn't have to be raised. Unless Zannocchio was trout fishing in Canada and his proximity was a coincidence.

Bulletproof argument. Either Violi will face the consequences for fabricating his status or his words hold merit, moreso than a federal agent. This alone should conclude this debate, for now.

But ofcourse it won't because certain people here won't have it. Somehow they ignore that after 3000 posts most people's perspective on this subject has not changed much. So where do we go from here?

Is Morena (assuming he gave a shit to begin with and didn't forget the comment as soon the conversation was over) going to tell his Bosses that Violi said he "beat 30 Guy's" for the UnderBoss slot? Are they then going to send someone to La Nova and ask Todaro if there really where 30 guys under consideration for the spot or if Violi's count was off? Assuming Todaro would choose to answer such a ridiculous question and answer that Violi's count was off what would happen then? Todaro turns into Nicky Scarfo and orders him whacked? Or would the Bonannos do the work? How exactly would it play out? You guys are really overthinking and reading too much into what is clearly a throwaway comment made by 2 sociopathic mobsters in private conversation.


Also Christie we are arguing two different things. I'm not questioning their LCN membership and recognition. Tronolone was still a recognized LCN member but that doesn't mean that Cleveland still had a structured and viable OC organization as evidenced by Angelo Lonardo saying point blank that there was no Clevlenad family anymore and that it had been destroyed despite him knowing that there were still about a dozen members still breathing.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

@Wiseguy: the clear difference in stance here WG, is simply this. Forget the point. Or the the argument. Or it’s weight, from either perspective. This is the problem which, I do sincerely hope your good self and pogo consider.

You have beyond reproach posters who’ve history and adherence to evidence and skepticism and patience and maturity in dealing with this complicated subject who are.... willing to consider an alternative position contrary to historical precedent but doing so considering the weight of evidence and have reached no other position than this at a minimum.... there exists a case for a rational conclusion for the existence of a Buffalo Family.
I chose that wording carefully. There exists a case. Some of these posters have said the evidence suggests or even concludes to, an active, recognized family. But AT A MINIMUM, their position isn’t even this but simply that there, exists a case for that argument.

You both won’t even acknowledge that there’s sufficient evidence for a case. And do so with condescending scorn and derision.

The pushback from the most respected posters comes, in that your refusal to have an open mind. To CONSIDER. Your use of definitives precludes even the entertainment of the possibility that your conclusion could be wrong.
This is where the pushback lies.

Not in the weakness of your argument, but in the absolute denial of anything other than your position. From day one to now your position has not changed. Which means the evidence that has come to light has not been judged on its own merit, but that unless reinforces your own narrative it is dismissed regardless of its weight.

This is not how you win minds or arguments. Subject be damned.

Maybe the difference comes down to where we're coming from. I don't want to speak for Pogo but, as for myself, some time ago I decided to focus my study of the mob on things from 2000 to the present. The present day mob. Some posters here have their niche, for lack of a better word, and I suppose that's mine. This has provided an understanding of the current state of the mob that others who haven't focused on this might not have. If I hadn't focused on this for the last 10 years, I might have been just as convinced that Buffalo is back as many others are. After all, without the context that the bigger picture provides, the news that has come out over the last few years may indeed look very convincing.

I think the condescension, frustration, etc. comes from the extremely short memories many seem to have. Pogo has done better at listing specific examples than I have but, over the last 14 years I've been on the forums, there have been so many examples of where forum posters thought they knew better than the FBI about one issue or another. That the FBI was wrong and they were right. And time and again, it was eventually shown the FBI was right and the theories, opinions, etc. of the posters were off. Often way off. Nobody likes to dwell or call attention to their own mistakes so little is said about this and it quickly gets forgotten. However, after it happening so many times, one would think people would at least start to see a pattern. One would think they would pause before, yet again, saying the FBI is wrong. But this never seems to happen. It reminds me of the saying about doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result, is insanity.

This is why we are pretty damn sure of our position. Even if you're blindfolded, if you go with the feds, you'll end up being right 99% of the time. Go against them and you're on very shaky ground, to say the least. People continue to fail to learn this lesson and some of us are just left staring in disbelief. So in sum, given the history I just described, as well the bigger picture that many are unaware of, that's why some of us are not so quickly convinced by recent events in Buffalo or Hamilton over the past few years. And why we're expecting, after the FBI is shown to be right again, that many of the same people will forget all about it. Again.

Neither matter. Todaro could be in a homeless shelter and Luppino have zero (0) men under him. if Canada and NY recognize them as Boss and Captain that carries more weight than what we, as outsiders, think or wish to opine over. Discussions on their viability, longevity and power is a separate albeit, important part when forming a working understanding of what's going on but it doesn't supersede what the mafia's own members recognize as what is and what isn't within their secret criminal society.

Even if that's the case, even you have to admit that it doesn't end there. The devil is in the details. Going with your argument, the bar can be set rather low for us recognizing a family. Look at your D'Elia example. If the mob itself recognizes it, then we have to essentially believe that there is still a family in any place where other families may consider there to be one or even recognizes a single member as "amico nostra?" Does doing so really give the best and most accurate picture of things?

In other words, if 10 years down the road, we don't see anything else like the 2017 bust. None of these other 20 or so members, currently unaccounted for, are ever identified. And the whole thing does seem to have been a one-off anomaly. Would it be more accurate - at least practically speaking - to say the family came back into existence, even for a short time, or that it was simply some activity from remnants of a family that became defunct years ago?

I concur with WG and Pogo regarding the low probability that any active member in one of the US Families is operating "under the radar" (within the US). And what's come out of Buffalo seems to coincide and validate that measuring tool. If there was an attempt at undergoing a resurgence under the radar then they failed miserably. What comes next remains for all us to just wait and see. If in the next ten years nothing comes out and Violi was a one-time anomaly, I will be just fine with that, I don't need it be anything other than what it is, I don't play Fantasy Family nor does it seem like any of the participants in this thread are either. I went from thinking it was dead to believing something is back based on what's come out, I don't think I'm someone who jumps to conclusions without evidence.

Unfortunately it does seem it will take that long. People who were on the RD forum might remember how much Detroit was debated over. 10+ years later, we don't see those debates much anymore.

But if the alternative comes out and the FBI eventually confirms it, I truly hope the opposing side will be ready to acknowledge it without trying to argue what they think the FBI really meant. And in turn, if it goes that way, this side of the arguments needs to be respectful and avoid resorting it into a "gotcha." We all should be on the side of truth. Salut.

I don't think either Pogo or myself will attempt to move the goalposts in an effort to save face. In fact, I think both he and I would be more than satisfied if everyone agreed to simply leave it up to the FBI and what they say. But, as I explained at length above, that's not what has happened. Again.

[Fughedaboutit]

@Wiseguy: the clear difference in stance here WG, is simply this. Forget the point. Or the the argument. Or it’s weight, from either perspective. This is the problem which, I do sincerely hope your good self and pogo consider.

You have beyond reproach posters who’ve history and adherence to evidence and skepticism and patience and maturity in dealing with this complicated subject who are.... willing to consider an alternative position contrary to historical precedent but doing so considering the weight of evidence and have reached no other position than this at a minimum.... there exists a case for a rational conclusion for the existence of a Buffalo Family.
I chose that wording carefully. There exists a case. Some of these posters have said the evidence suggests or even concludes to, an active, recognized family. But AT A MINIMUM, their position isn’t even this but simply that there, exists a case for that argument.

You both won’t even acknowledge that there’s sufficient evidence for a case. And do so with condescending scorn and derision.

The pushback from the most respected posters comes, in that your refusal to have an open mind. To CONSIDER. Your use of definitives precludes even the entertainment of the possibility that your conclusion could be wrong.
This is where the pushback lies.

Not in the weakness of your argument, but in the absolute denial of anything other than your position. From day one to now your position has not changed. Which means the evidence that has come to light has not been judged on its own merit, but that unless reinforces your own narrative it is dismissed regardless of its weight.

This is not how you win minds or arguments. Subject be damned.

Maybe the difference comes down to where we're coming from. I don't want to speak for Pogo but, as for myself, some time ago I decided to focus my study of the mob on things from 2000 to the present. The present day mob. Some posters here have their niche, for lack of a better word, and I suppose that's mine. This has provided an understanding of the current state of the mob that others who haven't focused on this might not have. If I hadn't focused on this for the last 10 years, I might have been just as convinced that Buffalo is back as many others are. After all, without the context that the bigger picture provides, the news that has come out over the last few years may indeed look very convincing.

Wow, the absolute arrogance for you to act as the benchmark for what constitutes a family and deem yourself the forum expert on the current state of the mob. This speaks to Sonny's point ten fold.

[Moscone65]

@Wiseguy: the clear difference in stance here WG, is simply this. Forget the point. Or the the argument. Or it’s weight, from either perspective. This is the problem which, I do sincerely hope your good self and pogo consider.

You have beyond reproach posters who’ve history and adherence to evidence and skepticism and patience and maturity in dealing with this complicated subject who are.... willing to consider an alternative position contrary to historical precedent but doing so considering the weight of evidence and have reached no other position than this at a minimum.... there exists a case for a rational conclusion for the existence of a Buffalo Family.
I chose that wording carefully. There exists a case. Some of these posters have said the evidence suggests or even concludes to, an active, recognized family. But AT A MINIMUM, their position isn’t even this but simply that there, exists a case for that argument.

You both won’t even acknowledge that there’s sufficient evidence for a case. And do so with condescending scorn and derision.

The pushback from the most respected posters comes, in that your refusal to have an open mind. To CONSIDER. Your use of definitives precludes even the entertainment of the possibility that your conclusion could be wrong.
This is where the pushback lies.

Not in the weakness of your argument, but in the absolute denial of anything other than your position. From day one to now your position has not changed. Which means the evidence that has come to light has not been judged on its own merit, but that unless reinforces your own narrative it is dismissed regardless of its weight.

This is not how you win minds or arguments. Subject be damned.

Maybe the difference comes down to where we're coming from. I don't want to speak for Pogo but, as for myself, some time ago I decided to focus my study of the mob on things from 2000 to the present. The present day mob. Some posters here have their niche, for lack of a better word, and I suppose that's mine. This has provided an understanding of the current state of the mob that others who haven't focused on this might not have. If I hadn't focused on this for the last 10 years, I might have been just as convinced that Buffalo is back as many others are. After all, without the context that the bigger picture provides, the news that has come out over the last few years may indeed look very convincing.

I think the condescension, frustration, etc. comes from the extremely short memories many seem to have. Pogo has done better at listing specific examples than I have but, over the last 14 years I've been on the forums, there have been so many examples of where forum posters thought they knew better than the FBI about one issue or another. That the FBI was wrong and they were right. And time and again, it was eventually shown the FBI was right and the theories, opinions, etc. of the posters were off. Often way off. Nobody likes to dwell or call attention to their own mistakes so little is said about this and it quickly gets forgotten. However, after it happening so many times, one would think people would at least start to see a pattern. One would think they would pause before, yet again, saying the FBI is wrong. But this never seems to happen. It reminds me of the saying about doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result, is insanity.

This is why we are pretty damn sure of our position. Even if you're blindfolded, if you go with the feds, you'll end up being right 99% of the time. Go against them and you're on very shaky ground, to say the least. People continue to fail to learn this lesson and some of us are just left staring in disbelief. So in sum, given the history I just described, as well the bigger picture that many are unaware of, that's why some of us are not so quickly convinced by recent events in Buffalo or Hamilton over the past few years. And why we're expecting, after the FBI is shown to be right again, that many of the same people will forget all about it. Again.

Neither matter. Todaro could be in a homeless shelter and Luppino have zero (0) men under him. if Canada and NY recognize them as Boss and Captain that carries more weight than what we, as outsiders, think or wish to opine over. Discussions on their viability, longevity and power is a separate albeit, important part when forming a working understanding of what's going on but it doesn't supersede what the mafia's own members recognize as what is and what isn't within their secret criminal society.

Even if that's the case, even you have to admit that it doesn't end there. The devil is in the details. Going with your argument, the bar can be set rather low for us recognizing a family. Look at your D'Elia example. If the mob itself recognizes it, then we have to essentially believe that there is still a family in any place where other families may consider there to be one or even recognizes a single member as "amico nostra?" Does doing so really give the best and most accurate picture of things?

In other words, if 10 years down the road, we don't see anything else like the 2017 bust. None of these other 20 or so members, currently unaccounted for, are ever identified. And the whole thing does seem to have been a one-off anomaly. Would it be more accurate - at least practically speaking - to say the family came back into existence, even for a short time, or that it was simply some activity from remnants of a family that became defunct years ago?

I concur with WG and Pogo regarding the low probability that any active member in one of the US Families is operating "under the radar" (within the US). And what's come out of Buffalo seems to coincide and validate that measuring tool. If there was an attempt at undergoing a resurgence under the radar then they failed miserably. What comes next remains for all us to just wait and see. If in the next ten years nothing comes out and Violi was a one-time anomaly, I will be just fine with that, I don't need it be anything other than what it is, I don't play Fantasy Family nor does it seem like any of the participants in this thread are either. I went from thinking it was dead to believing something is back based on what's come out, I don't think I'm someone who jumps to conclusions without evidence.

Unfortunately it does seem it will take that long. People who were on the RD forum might remember how much Detroit was debated over. 10+ years later, we don't see those debates much anymore.

But if the alternative comes out and the FBI eventually confirms it, I truly hope the opposing side will be ready to acknowledge it without trying to argue what they think the FBI really meant. And in turn, if it goes that way, this side of the arguments needs to be respectful and avoid resorting it into a "gotcha." We all should be on the side of truth. Salut.

I don't think either Pogo or myself will attempt to move the goalposts in an effort to save face. In fact, I think both he and I would be more than satisfied if everyone agreed to simply leave it up to the FBI and what they say. But, as I explained at length above, that's not what has happened. Again.

It’s undisputed that there is activity from remnants of the buffalo organization, to say the least, we all agree on that. So now the question is: even if the buffalo family was on shaky ground, with only the boss left, one captain, a few soldier ect, what is preventing the boss from doing restructuring?

Even if the fbi or whatever other “sources” declare the buffalo mob Inactive because they only had a dozen guys around not doing much, that doesn’t matter one bit to the remaining mobsters or other families. What’s todaro gonna say “oh the fbi says we’re not a family anymore, that’s it fellas we had a good run”. Once a family is destroyed like Cleveland, it’s unlikely to come back, but reasonably it’s not impossible. Also, it seems like there is a lot of outside factors that could have had an impact on this “buffalo resurgence”. The presence and arrests of nyc mobsters in Ontario, (meeting with supposed buffalo members) should confirm this.

[Moscone65]

Also, what exactly is a family in this case? A self governing organization with ranks, with an officially sanctioned boss that inducts new members and exerts influence in order to bring in profit. If so...

[Pogo The Clown]

It’s undisputed that there is activity from remnants of the buffalo organization, to say the least, we all agree on that.

Actually it is very disputed. So no we don't agree on that. Not only have seen next to no LCN cases out of Buffalo for almost 20 years now but we have direct stamemts LE contradicting this notoion.


From 2006

Today, despite rumors that what was once the Magaddino family still operates here, federal organized crime investigators say those tales just aren’t true. They say small numbers of loosely associated individuals may still get together to commit what once were Mafia style crimes, but it’s not like the old days.

From 2017

The local FBI once had a large squad of agents working full time on mob cases, but the agency no longer considers the Mafia a presence in this region, according to Adam S. Cohen, special agent in charge of the Buffalo FBI office.

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” Cohen said. “But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses that we know of.”

no one leads what is left of the mob in this region, Cohen said.

Several retired state and local law enforcement officials who specialized in Mafia investigations agreed.

The Mafia, and the way of life that fostered the Mafia, is pretty much gone,” said Lee Coppola, 73, a former federal prosecutor and news reporter who grew up among mobsters and their families on Buffalo’s West Side.

Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader.

the FBI’s contention that the Buffalo mob family no longer is active and no longer has a leader.