Joaquin Garcia and the Gambinos

[Bklyn21]

To quote FBI agent Joaquin Garcia years ago he says to other agents , Some high ranking ....." There are bad guys in this case who don't exist in your minds ". He told them , Because they aren't on your beautiful Charts. How many guys out there aren't on your charts who are in fact definitely Made guys ? You subscribe to the idea that your charts are 100% accurate ? Greg Depalma told me himself there are 26 Calls in the Gambinos family currently. you've only got 21 on your chart . where are tje other 5 ? You are missing a lot of soldiers !We identified the post Gotti administration in this investigation . You didn't have Squitieri , Megale , Or JoJo Corozzo as the boss undergoes and Consigliere ? In Garcia's and other agents words they could have made a very serious dent and have taken down a lot of all 5 crime families but the supeevisors and agents didn't and wouldn't let that happen. So , I do believe Dileonardo on his 260 members quote and I also believe the FBI is still missing between 50-60 soldiers . In the recent case regarding Martino and Campos they acknowledged the Gambino family is "Thriving" . It also makes me wonder about Buffalo and that im on the fence regarding if they active and how long theyve been if its true . After reading this book , Then recently rereading the book its obvious the Feds deliberately lie to fit they're own agendas and to nice size degrees, Even to they're own Agents/People

[Bklyn21]

26 Crews**

[Bklyn21]

But who knows ? Just because Depalma told him doesn't mean it's totally legit . Depalma had the biggest mouth in the Mob and loved to hear himself talk !

[B.]

DiLeonardo wasn't just a random member, either, but one of his duties was assisting the administration and he was involved in taking account of the family's structure and size. Nobody's account is perfect but he has additional credibility on this particular subject. His analysis of the captains could suggest there was around 24+ captains at the time of his cooperation: http://lcnbios.blogspot.com/search?q=dileonardo

The existence of the +2 Christmas induction rule, assuming it is still in use, implies that the are operating at close to full capacity otherwise they wouldn't need to give two free slots every Christmas to account for inactive/imprisoned/murdered members. There would be no reason for the +2 rule otherwise.

[TommyGambino]

260 20 years ago isn't ridiculous, right now i think around 220, feds have them at 200 but who don't they know?

[Tonyd621]

Why does it max out at 260? Is that an arbitrary number or is there logic behind it?

[Bklyn21]

DiLeonardo wasn't just a random member, either, but one of his duties was assisting the administration and he was involved in taking account of the family's structure and size. Nobody's account is perfect but he has additional credibility on this particular subject. His analysis of the captains could suggest there was around 24+ captains at the time of his cooperation: http://lcnbios.blogspot.com/search?q=dileonardo

The existence of the +2 Christmas induction rule, assuming it is still in use, implies that the are operating at close to full capacity otherwise they wouldn't need to give two free slots every Christmas to account for inactive/imprisoned/murdered members. There would be no reason for the +2 rule otherwise.

I definitely believe Dileonardo , And the Garcia book came out when ? Over 10 years ago with Info from the early to mid 2000s , The feds and others at that time had the Gams at around 200 give or take , And Garcia is told there's 26 crews instead of the 21 listed by the Feds at the time and him going on a rant to his superiors and others in the Fbi about them not wanting to acknowledge the other 5 crews or do anything about them , Capos and numerous unidentified soldiers . I believe it but I also wonder why the Feds suppress info and put out info that's 95% correct and even refuse to believe or acknowledge an Agent who's on the inside working an active case .

[Bklyn21]

I just read the book again over the last few days and at the end Garcia really goes off on the Bureau and Its supervisors and agents for telling lies to him and the others , And the public ! They fucked him around at the end of the investigation which him and others wanted to and were supposed to continue and certain people pulling the plug and sweeping stuff under the rug . I mean , Today with the Sicilians and connections to Ndrangheta they are probably capped out at 260 members , Maybe more ?? 270 or 280 wouldn't be crazy but probably not . Also , The Feds and LE really haven't made a Big bust and taken down numerous Campos and soldiers since the 2011 big one , They take down a few people constantly but really no Large scale arrests and indictments , No arrests that make HUGE HEADLINES like 2011

[Bklyn21]

Numerous Capos*** lol not Campos

[Bklyn21]

Also in the book Vaccarro is taking a trip to Sicily and Garcia is supposed to accompany him to meet with Sicilian members but is shot down by his FBI superiors and cannot go , So back then 15 plus years ago Vaccarro from the Bronx faction and Depalma , Or actually at a time he was Depalmas acting Capo has connections to Sicily . Garcia was also very pissed they held him back from going as He would have been held in high regard and would further his decimation of the Gambinos and they're Sicilian counterparts and links

[Pogo The Clown]

A lot of what Garcia said in this regard doesn't hold water. For example in his book he said the Feds didn't know about Alphonse Sisca until he told them which is not accurate. Capeci IDed Sisca as a Capo in 2002 before the Garcia investigation even began. Capeci also mentioned in a 1999 column that Peter Gotti was survailled meeting with Squiteri and Sisca. Not to mention of course that the Feds prosecuted Sisca in the 1980s.


Pogo

[bronx]

garcia was a huge source of info for that time period..no question..he had depalma who could not hold a secret day to day..would really like to hear those tapes..arnold was underboss ,funzi was a captain and both were close to depalma/

[Bklyn21]

A lot of what Garcia said in this regard doesn't hold water. For example in his book he said the Feds didn't know about Alphonse Sisca until he told them which is not accurate. Capeci IDed Sisca as a Capo in 2002 before the Garcia investigation even began. Capeci also mentioned in a 1999 column that Peter Gotti was survailled meeting with Squiteri and Sisca. Not to mention of course that the Feds prosecuted Sisca in the 1980s.

That's what I meant when I said who knows if what Depalma told Garcia was true ? Depalma had the biggest mouth in the Mob and couldn't shut up for 5 seconds if you paid him . So that was also a point of contention Garcia only was told this by Depalma ! Yes , Squitieri was Id'd , Sisca was Id'd and Megale was also id'd I'm pretty sure when he was busted earlier than this investigation . I keep in mind that this was also Garcia's first experience and first into Lcn and Italian OC
Pogo

[Bklyn21]

garcia was a huge source of info for that time period..no question..he had depalma who could not hold a secret day to day..would really like to hear those tapes..arnold was underboss ,funzi was a captain and both were close to depalma/

Same here ! Wish those tapes were available , The stuff on those has to be treasure trove . I also wonder what happened with Chris Sucarato who went on the lam for 9 months to evade prosecution and was supposedly getting made any day, Any week and was a Lock for induction

[Wiseguy]

To quote FBI agent Joaquin Garcia years ago he says to other agents , Some high ranking ....." There are bad guys in this case who don't exist in your minds ". He told them , Because they aren't on your beautiful Charts. How many guys out there aren't on your charts who are in fact definitely Made guys ? You subscribe to the idea that your charts are 100% accurate ? Greg Depalma told me himself there are 26 Calls in the Gambinos family currently. you've only got 21 on your chart . where are tje other 5 ? You are missing a lot of soldiers !We identified the post Gotti administration in this investigation . You didn't have Squitieri , Megale , Or JoJo Corozzo as the boss undergoes and Consigliere ? In Garcia's and other agents words they could have made a very serious dent and have taken down a lot of all 5 crime families but the supeevisors and agents didn't and wouldn't let that happen. So , I do believe Dileonardo on his 260 members quote and I also believe the FBI is still missing between 50-60 soldiers . In the recent case regarding Martino and Campos they acknowledged the Gambino family is "Thriving" . It also makes me wonder about Buffalo and that im on the fence regarding if they active and how long theyve been if its true . After reading this book , Then recently rereading the book its obvious the Feds deliberately lie to fit they're own agendas and to nice size degrees, Even to they're own Agents/People

First, saying something could be the case in Buffalo because it's so in New York is apples and bowling balls.

Second, you can't just look at one source in isolation apart from everything else. People who do so tend to be looking for a particular outcome.

The feds don't have any reason to lie about how many members of the Gambino family there are. And their figures for the family have been rather consistent for well over 20 years now. 200 or so seems to be the ceiling. The 260 figure cited by DiLeonardo was a traditional max the family could have. But that doesn't mean there are 50-60 members unknown to law enforcement.

If Gravano identified 21 crews in 1991, when the family was a lot stronger, what chances are there that it had grown to 26 crews 10-15 years later?