MAFIA

[gohnjotti]

First off congrats on the new site. If you are going to promote your site on here I’d appreciate it if you do a write up about this place on your site (nothing big just 1 or 2 paragraphs) and also add a link to this forum on your site. Good luck on the new site Maxie.......Soliai

Shit, that reminds me.

[MichaelGiovanni]

Congrats on the site and I’ve enjoyed reading through it. I read Costello’s bio today.

The only thing that I want to bring up is that it says in the article that Costello took over for Luciano because Genovese left for Italy years earlier. This is the first i’ve heard of that. I always believed that Genovese took over after Luciano was in-prisoned for a short time and then left for Italy after the trouble with the murder of Boccia started.

Your thoughts?

[maxiestern11]

Congrats on the site and I’ve enjoyed reading through it. I read Costello’s bio today.

The only thing that I want to bring up is that it says in the article that Costello took over for Luciano because Genovese left for Italy years earlier. This is the first i’ve heard of that. I always believed that Genovese took over after Luciano was in-prisoned for a short time and then left for Italy after the trouble with the murder of Boccia started.

Your thoughts?

You could very well be correct on that point. I don’t have the bio I wrote in front of me as I write this to you. But I believe Luciano was jailed in 36’. Depending on what year Genovese got in trouble with the Boccia murder, if there is a gap, then yes I’d say Vito ran the crew for that period of time.... AFTER Genovese lammed it to Italy, Frank took over as AB. Previously Frank was Consigliere. We have to look at from 1936 to the date of Boccia murder case. Whatever gap there is (if any) that’s when I’d imagine Vito was AB..... I’ll check dates I put in bio. You check too ok, and we will Talk again ok buddy. (I do know most guys preferred Frank to Vito, except Vito’s core crew. Lucky trusted Frank much more than he did Vito also - always)!
-
And thanks for posting. It’s much appreciated. I enjoy the discussion..... BTW: I’ve got another blockbuster surprise coming out soon for all to see soon. As soon as I think the time is right to release the info on him.
-

[maxiestern11]

Congrats on the site and I’ve enjoyed reading through it. I read Costello’s bio today.

The only thing that I want to bring up is that it says in the article that Costello took over for Luciano because Genovese left for Italy years earlier. This is the first i’ve heard of that. I always believed that Genovese took over after Luciano was in-prisoned for a short time and then left for Italy after the trouble with the murder of Boccia started.

Your thoughts?

You could very well be correct on that point. I don’t have the bio I wrote in front of me as I write this to you. But I believe Luciano was jailed in 36’. Depending on what year Genovese got in trouble with the Boccia murder, if there is a gap, then yes I’d say Vito ran the crew for that period of time.... AFTER Genovese lammed it to Italy, Frank took over as AB. Previously Frank was Consigliere. We have to look at from 1936 to the date of Boccia murder case. Whatever gap there is (if any) that’s when I’d imagine Vito was AB..... I’ll check dates I put in bio. You check too ok, and we will Talk again ok buddy. (I do know most guys preferred Frank to Vito, except Vito’s core crew. Lucky trusted Frank much more than he did Vito also - always)!
-
And thanks for posting. It’s much appreciated. I enjoy the discussion..... BTW: I’ve got another blockbuster surprise coming out soon for all to see soon. As soon as I think the time is right to release the info on him.
-

Michael, here it is;
Luciano sent away in 1936
Genovese get indicted in 1937 and flees to Italy
Genovese brought back to NY in late 1945/beats case in 1946
Frank Costello is AB from 1936-37 thru 1946 (appx 10 yrs)

It seems Vito might have been AB for only months before he fled the US.
-
On another note, I gotta tell ya, Frank Costello
Is one of my all time favorites.
Smart, savvy, classy, not a vicious guy, a kingmaker and multi-zillionaire this Guy.

THAT was a “wiseguy” in every true sense of the word.

[Confederate]

It seems like after 1931, the only real wars in New York City were all CIVIL. The Banana War, The Colombo Wars, Galante assassination. No?
Even the Gambino conflict was all civil with Gotti/Castellano. I realize that Gigante hated Gotti over what happened, but there was really no War per se over it. How did Gigante & Gotti make peace over the Castellano assasination which happened 34 years ago right about this time?

[maxiestern11]

It seems like after 1931, the only real wars in New York City were all CIVIL. The Banana War, The Colombo Wars, Galante assassination. No?
Even the Gambino conflict was all civil with Gotti/Castellano. I realize that Gigante hated Gotti over what happened, but there was really no War per se over it. How did Gigante & Gotti make peace over the Castellano assasination which happened 34 years ago right about this time?

in a sense, you are correct Confederate. don't get me wrong, the Banana war, Profaci-Gallo conflict and later Colombo "wars" as they refer to them, were all open battles. carloads of shooters were roaming the streets every day looking for the opposition. But in truth the Banana war only had limited killings and shootings, the Profaci-Gallo War had probably double that (at least), so did the later internal Colombo War of the early 1990's..........but the famed Castellammarese War gets the "title" as the bloodiest conflict. Was it? Maybe, but because it changed the face of OC in this country, with the "blending" of all men from all the provinces of Italy joining together, that's why it was the MOST significant mob war of all time (in America at least)..... the forming of "Cosa Nostra" (our thing).....the blending/melding as one.

[maxiestern11]

and to answer your question about Gigante and Gotti. They DID NOT settle it. in fact, there was no open conflict. They jerked each other off the few times they met. But Chin was seething until his collar and wanted John dead!..... planned for it as we know. But the feds saved Gotti before it COULD happen.

[MichaelGiovanni]

Congrats on the site and I’ve enjoyed reading through it. I read Costello’s bio today.

The only thing that I want to bring up is that it says in the article that Costello took over for Luciano because Genovese left for Italy years earlier. This is the first i’ve heard of that. I always believed that Genovese took over after Luciano was in-prisoned for a short time and then left for Italy after the trouble with the murder of Boccia started.

Your thoughts?

You could very well be correct on that point. I don’t have the bio I wrote in front of me as I write this to you. But I believe Luciano was jailed in 36’. Depending on what year Genovese got in trouble with the Boccia murder, if there is a gap, then yes I’d say Vito ran the crew for that period of time.... AFTER Genovese lammed it to Italy, Frank took over as AB. Previously Frank was Consigliere. We have to look at from 1936 to the date of Boccia murder case. Whatever gap there is (if any) that’s when I’d imagine Vito was AB..... I’ll check dates I put in bio. You check too ok, and we will Talk again ok buddy. (I do know most guys preferred Frank to Vito, except Vito’s core crew. Lucky trusted Frank much more than he did Vito also - always)!
-
And thanks for posting. It’s much appreciated. I enjoy the discussion..... BTW: I’ve got another blockbuster surprise coming out soon for all to see soon. As soon as I think the time is right to release the info on him.
-

Michael, here it is;
Luciano sent away in 1936
Genovese get indicted in 1937 and flees to Italy
Genovese brought back to NY in late 1945/beats case in 1946
Frank Costello is AB from 1936-37 thru 1946 (appx 10 yrs)

It seems Vito might have been AB for only months before he fled the US.
-
On another note, I gotta tell ya, Frank Costello
Is one of my all time favorites.
Smart, savvy, classy, not a vicious guy, a kingmaker and multi-zillionaire this Guy.

THAT was a “wiseguy” in every true sense of the word.

Thanks for double checking Maxie. I thought the timeline was pretty close to what you came up with. And you are right about Costello. He did it the right way.

[Confederate]

and to answer your question about Gigante and Gotti. They DID NOT settle it. in fact, there was no open conflict. They jerked each other off the few times they met. But Chin was seething until his collar and wanted John dead!..... planned for it as we know. But the feds saved Gotti before it COULD happen.

Gigante would have needed someone from within Gotti's inner circle to betray him. I wonder who would have betrayed Gotti? The other Bosses probably would have gone along with Gotti being killed because he raised his hand against a Boss. However, in Gotti's defense, he had no choice. It was kill or be killed & he struck first.
How did Gotti know that Castellano was going to be at Spark's Steak House at a particular time on that fateful day? Who was inside Spark's Steak House waiting to meet with Castellano & Bilotti?

[maxiestern11]

and to answer your question about Gigante and Gotti. They DID NOT settle it. in fact, there was no open conflict. They jerked each other off the few times they met. But Chin was seething until his collar and wanted John dead!..... planned for it as we know. But the feds saved Gotti before it COULD happen.

Gigante would have needed someone from within Gotti's inner circle to betray him. I wonder who would have betrayed Gotti? The other Bosses probably would have gone along with Gotti being killed because he raised his hand against a Boss. However, in Gotti's defense, he had no choice. It was kill or be killed & he struck first.
How did Gotti know that Castellano was going to be at Spark's Steak House at a particular time on that fateful day? Who was inside Spark's Steak House waiting to meet with Castellano & Bilotti?

I believe Frank DeCicco knew. He was part of the murder plot. And I’m sure a few others knew also.... possibly Rob DiBernardo and even Gravano. Remember each of them were pretty friendly with Paul at the time. And visited his house regularly.

Bottom line is, if you look at mob history, many bosses have been clipped by their underlings....it’s a vicious cycle. Just in the family were speaking about; Mangano got clipped by Anastasia; Anastasia got clipped by Gambino; ..... we skip a boss; and then Castellano gets it from Gotti..... even Frank Scalise (who was boss for awhile) got killed.

It’s a dangerous position to be a boss! Lol

[Confederate]

and to answer your question about Gigante and Gotti. They DID NOT settle it. in fact, there was no open conflict. They jerked each other off the few times they met. But Chin was seething until his collar and wanted John dead!..... planned for it as we know. But the feds saved Gotti before it COULD happen.

Gigante would have needed someone from within Gotti's inner circle to betray him. I wonder who would have betrayed Gotti? The other Bosses probably would have gone along with Gotti being killed because he raised his hand against a Boss. However, in Gotti's defense, he had no choice. It was kill or be killed & he struck first.
How did Gotti know that Castellano was going to be at Spark's Steak House at a particular time on that fateful day? Who was inside Spark's Steak House waiting to meet with Castellano & Bilotti?

I believe Frank DeCicco knew. He was part of the murder plot. And I’m sure a few others knew also.... possibly Rob DiBernardo and even Gravano. Remember each of them were pretty friendly with Paul at the time. And visited his house regularly.

Bottom line is, if you look at mob history, many bosses have been clipped by their underlings....it’s a vicious cycle. Just in the family were speaking about; Mangano got clipped by Anastasia; Anastasia got clipped by Gambino; ..... we skip a boss; and then Castellano gets it from Gotti..... even Frank Scalise (who was boss for awhile) got killed.

It’s a dangerous position to be a boss! Lol

I agree, especially in New York. That's why Gigante hated Gotti so much. Besides being a partner on a couple things with Castellano, it sent a bad message that a Boss was vulnerable. Two BIG reasons to hate Gotti. lol

Do you or anyone know WHO Castellano was supposed to have met at Spark's Steak House on that fateful day??

[don-shunter]

Paul was to meet Tommy gambino, Jimmy failla and Frank decicco. But some media and mob books reported that he was also meeting armond dellacroce to explain why he didn't go to his father's wake, but I don't believe that Paul would need to explain to anyone why he didn't go to his underbosses wake.

[maxiestern11]

Paul was to meet Tommy gambino, Jimmy failla and Frank decicco. But some media and mob books reported that he was also meeting armond dellacroce to explain why he didn't go to his father's wake, but I don't believe that Paul would need to explain to anyone why he didn't go to his underbosses wake.

Correct, in fact those fellows were waiting at the table inside Sparks for Paul and Tommy and viewed the actual shooting from the restaurant window.

[richard_belding]

Tommy Gambino wasnt inside, but was met outside the restaurant and told to turn around and leave. Present inside Sparks with Failla and Decicco was also John Gammarano.

[maxiestern11]

Tommy Gambino wasnt inside, but was met outside the restaurant and told to turn around and leave. Present inside Sparks with Failla and Decicco was also John Gammarano.

agreed. sounds right