Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:18 pm
Kind of divine justice for mob guys to see their offspring becomes wiggers.
Tony Testa is a horrific rapper but he isn’t a wigger. Paul Wall is a wigger. Tony doesn’t act like or dress like anything other than an Italian kid from Brooklyn. He’s hardly what I’d call a wigger unless just being a rapper makes you a wigger by your definition.
If you grew up in NYC in the 80’s and 90’s hiphop was the music of the time and it became a part of you regardless of your heritage. In any case JoJo Pellegrino is the best Italian american rapper there is.
Take any Italian kid covered in tattoos with chains and baggy pants and explain to any Italian over 50 that they're not wiggers and see if they say ok. At the same time you can explain that 'thug' really means 'gangster' and not shitbird like in 'the old days.' Any Italians here over 50 that want to weigh in?
I didn't listen to JoJo, a friend of mine Nino tried to introduce his music to me and lets just say I wasn't impressed. But then that's my own opinion and who the fuck am I? Pellegrino made a career out of it, that's a good thing. With music or anything else, it's easy to criticize, harder to create.
Well I'm an Italian and over 50 lol - I would say hip hop dominates the cities. The kids around today did not grow up in segregated communities - that all ended in the 60s. I grew up in the 1970s and by the time I was 18 most of us knew hip hop music and house music and went clubbing and out around the Chicago area with all sorts of people. Check this kid from Chicago - his father was an Outfit-connected drug dealer who is doing a life bid for murder. This kid actually does hang around these gang members. https://www.facebook.com/FrancoGmusic/
I dont get the music at all - this kid sounds terrible - but I know his father's friends raised him in Bridgeport and he still came out a 'gangsta.' Hell his brother was with Frankie Caruso Jr. the night he beat up that black kid.
that's what guys who didn't grow up near a city don't understand - the race shit ended in the half a century ago. Some of it is bravado today - kids acting tough but 90% of ITalians today would rather listen to hip hop than country music
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:18 pm
Kind of divine justice for mob guys to see their offspring becomes wiggers.
Tony Testa is a horrific rapper but he isn’t a wigger. Paul Wall is a wigger. Tony doesn’t act like or dress like anything other than an Italian kid from Brooklyn. He’s hardly what I’d call a wigger unless just being a rapper makes you a wigger by your definition.
If you grew up in NYC in the 80’s and 90’s hiphop was the music of the time and it became a part of you regardless of your heritage. In any case JoJo Pellegrino is the best Italian american rapper there is.
Take any Italian kid covered in tattoos with chains and baggy pants and explain to any Italian over 50 that they're not wiggers and see if they say ok. At the same time you can explain that 'thug' really means 'gangster' and not shitbird like in 'the old days.' Any Italians here over 50 that want to weigh in?
I didn't listen to JoJo, a friend of mine Nino tried to introduce his music to me and lets just say I wasn't impressed. But then that's my own opinion and who the fuck am I? Pellegrino made a career out of it, that's a good thing. With music or anything else, it's easy to criticize, harder to create.
Well I'm an Italian and over 50 lol - I would say hip hop dominates the cities. The kids around today did not grow up in segregated communities - that all ended in the 60s. I grew up in the 1970s and by the time I was 18 most of us knew hip hop music and house music and went clubbing and out around the Chicago area with all sorts of people. Check this kid from Chicago - his father was an Outfit-connected drug dealer who is doing a life bid for murder. This kid actually does hang around these gang members. https://www.facebook.com/FrancoGmusic/
I dont get the music at all - this kid sounds terrible - but I know his father's friends raised him in Bridgeport and he still came out a 'gangsta.' Hell his brother was with Frankie Caruso Jr. the night he beat up that black kid.
that's what guys who didn't grow up near a city don't understand - the race shit ended in the half a century ago. Some of it is bravado today - kids acting tough but 90% of ITalians today would rather listen to hip hop than country music
Joe Pesci beat all of these kids to the punch and did it best. "I don't drive by, because I'm a wiseguy... I just stop by, with a couple of guys." https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm031
Tbh... I've seen much worse than this. At least he was able to hire a Sopranos actor to make it a little classy. Kids over here make equally if not far more obnoxious, humiliating clips. Somehow they are able to attract pussy with it too.
That said, Pesci's clip is way better and still corny, but Pesci is a legend, this Tony Testa.. a nobody.
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:18 pm
Kind of divine justice for mob guys to see their offspring becomes wiggers.
Tony Testa is a horrific rapper but he isn’t a wigger. Paul Wall is a wigger. Tony doesn’t act like or dress like anything other than an Italian kid from Brooklyn. He’s hardly what I’d call a wigger unless just being a rapper makes you a wigger by your definition.
If you grew up in NYC in the 80’s and 90’s hiphop was the music of the time and it became a part of you regardless of your heritage. In any case JoJo Pellegrino is the best Italian american rapper there is.
I think the only one that's decent-ish is Vinnie Paz from Philly. Jedi MInd Tricks were the shit 20 years ago in the underground scene. I've met him in the past, he was actually very humble and not wiggerish at all. In person he's a bit awkward, short, fat dude. His family emigrated from Agrigento in the 70s. I remember asking him what's up with the weird cap he was wearing. Apparently he had converted to islam in high school, which I found pretty funny.
His production values are a tier above the other examples given so far too. Here's a recent one of his more "mob-oriented" ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=encSeKV9Vf4
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:18 pm
Kind of divine justice for mob guys to see their offspring becomes wiggers.
Tony Testa is a horrific rapper but he isn’t a wigger. Paul Wall is a wigger. Tony doesn’t act like or dress like anything other than an Italian kid from Brooklyn. He’s hardly what I’d call a wigger unless just being a rapper makes you a wigger by your definition.
If you grew up in NYC in the 80’s and 90’s hiphop was the music of the time and it became a part of you regardless of your heritage. In any case JoJo Pellegrino is the best Italian american rapper there is.
Take any Italian kid covered in tattoos with chains and baggy pants and explain to any Italian over 50 that they're not wiggers and see if they say ok.
Baggy pants huh? lol you realize its not 1993 and not even the dirtiest of moolies wears baggy pants anymore right? haaaaa
If we are only going by the opinions of Italians 50 and older in some cases you got me! but in Tony's case which I was specifically addressing if you didn't know he was a rapper and you talked to him on the street you'd never say he is a wigger. He's a typical mob wanna be with a velour Fila track suit and gold chain with the Italian horn on it. Riff Raff he is not.
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:18 pm
Kind of divine justice for mob guys to see their offspring becomes wiggers.
Tony Testa is a horrific rapper but he isn’t a wigger. Paul Wall is a wigger. Tony doesn’t act like or dress like anything other than an Italian kid from Brooklyn. He’s hardly what I’d call a wigger unless just being a rapper makes you a wigger by your definition.
If you grew up in NYC in the 80’s and 90’s hiphop was the music of the time and it became a part of you regardless of your heritage. In any case JoJo Pellegrino is the best Italian american rapper there is.
Take any Italian kid covered in tattoos with chains and baggy pants and explain to any Italian over 50 that they're not wiggers and see if they say ok.
Baggy pants huh? lol you realize its not 1993 and not even the dirtiest of moolies wears baggy pants anymore right? haaaaa
If we are only going by the opinions of Italians 50 and older in some cases you got me! but in Tony's case which I was specifically addressing if you didn't know he was a rapper and you talked to him on the street you'd never say he is a wigger. He's a typical mob wanna be with a velour Fila track suit and gold chain with the Italian horn on it. Riff Raff he is not.
It's not about what I realize. I'm not giving my own opinions on cultural trends or advocating/discouraging them. I'm referring specifically to an older demographic, in our case, elderly mafia members who had to witness some of their kids embrace the 'thug' culture. I've interviewed several people who've spoke of this cultural shift, one made a point with the word thug stating that in his day wouldn't be used positively, he'd be more inclined to place it in a category along with junkie and pedophile rather than gangster or street guy.
Tattoos are acceptable now but they weren't 20-30 years ago. Unless there's a contrasting argument stating that wiseguy's either didn't care or embraced this new thug culture when just a few decades prior were themselves prohibited from facial hair. Admitably I'm not up to date on Mafia trends, my area is ancient history, but given the average mafiosi's social conservatism I can't see them proudly boasting: "Yeah, my son is a little thug." If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Okay.
Funny little sidenote, the poster behind the Picasso handle's kid's were 'thugs,' one even had 'nigga' in his old myspace name. It bothered the living shit out of him, especially when one got "Lawless" tatted on his knuckles, he ordered him to add an F so it read "Flawless" instead. I don't have to be a mob guy to say I hope I never have to deal with that shit.
This Testa might not be a wigger lifer, but anyone who ever sounded the way he does in those rap videos went through a wigger phase, 100%. My generation put wiggers on the map and I was surrounded by them between ages 13 to 18. I can see a guy my age pushing a baby stroller down the street in his Sunday best and tell you with dead accuracy if he used to be a wigger.
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:01 pmUnless there's a contrasting argument stating that wiseguy's either didn't care or embraced this new thug culture when just a few decades prior were themselves prohibited from facial hair. Admitably I'm not up to date on Mafia trends, my area is ancient history, but given the average mafiosi's social conservatism I can't see them proudly boasting: "Yeah, my son is a little thug." If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Okay.
I doubt you're wrong. At best, I think mob guys would tolerate it with a roll of the eyes and a chuckle. But I imagine there isn't one out there that would enjoy or encourage his kid emulating the inner city, "gangsta" rap/hip hop lifestyle.
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:01 pmUnless there's a contrasting argument stating that wiseguy's either didn't care or embraced this new thug culture when just a few decades prior were themselves prohibited from facial hair. Admitably I'm not up to date on Mafia trends, my area is ancient history, but given the average mafiosi's social conservatism I can't see them proudly boasting: "Yeah, my son is a little thug." If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Okay.
I doubt you're wrong. At best, I think mob guys would tolerate it with a roll of the eyes and a chuckle. But I imagine there isn't one out there that would enjoy or encourage his kid emulating the inner city, "gangsta" rap/hip hop lifestyle.
What is the traditional epitome of a wiseguy?
Well dressed, sophisticated, suit n fedora, respectable, business/community leader.
Low pants, hand signs, tatts n’ modern ‘bruh’ speak are as far removed from Cosa Nostra as it gets.
Street gang banging does not equate to Cosa Nostra.
By any stretch of the imagination.
Yes, I would say your take on Det LCN/fmr. Det LCN relatives working in influential cultural and white collar business circles is accurate.
Jack Tocco's non-LCN kids (out of 10 kids, only 3 are allegedly "made") are very accomplished - one is a renowned heart doctor, one is a priest, one is a concert pianist, one owns a wealth management co.
Tony Tocco's kids own Carmella Foods, his son-in-law owns the biggest Italian restaurant chain in Michigan (Andiamo - 30 locations, including the old Red Fox building where Jimmy Hoffa was kidnapped)
Jackie Giacalone's daughter is a doctor
Tony Zerilli's son is an acclaimed horse vet
Ronnie Morelli's nephew is an ATF agent
And Yes "Hollywood Ronnie" Morelli is/was a legend in Detroit. Jackie Giacalone patterned his whole mob persona after Ronnie not his dad or uncle. In my 12 years of writing about this stuff, more people contact me, approach me wanting to talk about and tell stories about Ronnie than anyone else. For those of you who don't know, Morelli was Tony Giacalone' driver, bodyguard, protégé and acting capo of his crew who died in prison of a heart attack in 1986 at like 49 years old (he had a congenital heart defect), three months before his release date.
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:01 pmUnless there's a contrasting argument stating that wiseguy's either didn't care or embraced this new thug culture when just a few decades prior were themselves prohibited from facial hair. Admitably I'm not up to date on Mafia trends, my area is ancient history, but given the average mafiosi's social conservatism I can't see them proudly boasting: "Yeah, my son is a little thug." If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Okay.
I doubt you're wrong. At best, I think mob guys would tolerate it with a roll of the eyes and a chuckle. But I imagine there isn't one out there that would enjoy or encourage his kid emulating the inner city, "gangsta" rap/hip hop lifestyle.
It would make for an interesting discussion to get interviews or a podcast discussion of several former members to speak on the impact and influence of black gangster rap culture in the last 30 years. Gravano (who judging from his interviews comes off quite socially liberal) would probably have something interesting to say about it, I'd suspect that he'd be one of those cool with it although, like you said, not encouraging of it. Now imagine Jr Gotti in the 80's outside his house in a rope gold necklace, hat on backwards (some Italian kids, including myself, remember when this was a no-no in front of our folks), Gotti's car pulls up after "being away" for several years and said encounters Jr who says "What up?" His reaction would likely be similar to Frank Vincent's reaction in Jungle Fever.
Kenji Gallo also spoke about the influence, he was of a younger generation so the people he knew were more accepting/exposed of it, enjoying the music and clothing, citing Craig Marino's Sean John track suit. He's argued that the rap culture has had its influence, he lumped Jersey Shore guidos in that category. I have no opinions of that.
scott22 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:18 am
Chris Christie
Yes, I would say your take on Det LCN/fmr. Det LCN relatives working in influential cultural and white collar business circles is accurate.
Jack Tocco's non-LCN kids (out of 10 kids, only 3 are allegedly "made") are very accomplished - one is a renowned heart doctor, one is a priest, one is a concert pianist, one owns a wealth management co.
Tony Tocco's kids own Carmella Foods, his son-in-law owns the biggest Italian restaurant chain in Michigan (Andiamo - 30 locations, including the old Red Fox building where Jimmy Hoffa was kidnapped)
Jackie Giacalone's daughter is a doctor
Tony Zerilli's son is an acclaimed horse vet
Ronnie Morelli's nephew is an ATF agent
And Yes "Hollywood Ronnie" Morelli is/was a legend in Detroit. Jackie Giacalone patterned his whole mob persona after Ronnie not his dad or uncle. In my 12 years of writing about this stuff, more people contact me, approach me wanting to talk about and tell stories about Ronnie than anyone else. For those of you who don't know, Morelli was Tony Giacalone' driver, bodyguard, protégé and acting capo of his crew who died in prison of a heart attack in 1986 at like 49 years old (he had a congenital heart defect), three months before his release date.
Yes, but putting aside OC and occupations, we're looking at blood families who've spent the past several generations acquainted with each other who's ancestors mostly come from the same place- Termini Imerese and Partinico. After all this time, these families are still connected socially and relatively. I'd argue that same dynamic exists for Italians in Buffalo and the surrounding areas.
And ironically, as the Giacalone's succeeded the Toccos in power, the Giacalone offspring are mostly legit while Tocco descendants are still involved in some capacity.
You once said had Hollywood Ronnie lived he would be boss today, that was an interesting story I think many would also enjoy.
