Is Pittsburgh alive?

[Frank]

Eh idk if I’d say plenty... in comparison to what, Pittsburgh? Sure

That's the difference between viable and not viable. No one here is saying the Outfit is in great shape. The Outfit is in a waiting for new information mode. The last I heard that is extremely important is Sallet stated that they were running on fumes.

[Frank]

In fact t I don't know if that Sallet statement has ever been cofirmed?? Anyone know for sure??

[Moscone65]

Sallett got promoted

[Moscone65]

That’s the case on the east coast, not so much for Chicago. Why that is, I’ll leave up to you.

You really need to do your research before posting.

You should have a brain before posting but that doesn’t seem to be stopping you

[Angelo Santino]

There's many reasons why a Family goes defunct. With Pittsburgh in particular I'd argue one reason being that the mob and economies go hand in hand. If the South never lost the Civil War, New Orleans and not New York would have remained the immigration epicenter of the Mafia and the dynamics would have been completely different. The decline of the mid-west also saw the decline of the mob in that area. When we talk of the Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Cleveland Families, we're not talking city entities but rather multi-state organizations. Outside of the big 3 cities you had Akron, Youngstown, Stuebensville, Altoona, Erie, Utica, Albany etc. These cities have changed significantly from the time they were thriving middle class cities and we can't appreciate them today. But way back when, these were key components for what made Cleveland Cleveland or Pittsburgh Pittsburgh.

Buffalo is a border town and as an entity has had a presence on both sides of it. Given the activity of Toronto, Hamilton and Montreal as OC cities, it would make sense why Buffalo could theoretically bounce back. Pittsburgh, while becoming a nicer city, really lacks anything that could sustain a crime family. Gambling only goes so far and the percentage that the mob controlled in the 50's is far more than what they control now.

Of course, we can look at Philly and wonder what the hell purpose they serve in the larger scheme, Philly is not a very important city but nonetheless that group remains fucking Rocky Balboa.


Now in terms of a diminished hierarchy, the most important rank remains the Boss. This role, as representative of the area, serves as a conduit with other groups. If someone wishes to go to that area, this Boss is alerted and its dealt with politically. That is the role that John Tronolone played as boss of Pittsburgh while he lived in Florida the entire time. The next is Underboss, captains aren't really needed unless the group is sizable enough. Not every Family in Sicily had capos, with some groups ranging from 7-15 members it makes little sense. But the Boss is the Boss. Without it, then I'd say a group ceases to be a Family entirely. But that's going back to "viable" semantics which have been debated ad nauseam.

[Moscone65]

There's many reasons why a Family goes defunct. With Pittsburgh in particular I'd argue one reason being that the mob and economies go hand in hand. If the South never lost the Civil War, New Orleans and not New York would have remained the immigration epicenter of the Mafia and the dynamics would have been completely different. The decline of the mid-west also saw the decline of the mob in that area. When we talk of the Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Cleveland Families, we're not talking city entities but rather multi-state organizations. Outside of the big 3 cities you had Akron, Youngstown, Stuebensville, Altoona, Erie, Utica, Albany etc. These cities have changed significantly from the time they were thriving middle class cities and we can't appreciate them today. But way back when, these were key components for what made Cleveland Cleveland or Pittsburgh Pittsburgh.

Buffalo is a border town and as an entity has had a presence on both sides of it. Given the activity of Toronto, Hamilton and Montreal as OC cities, it would make sense why Buffalo could theoretically bounce back. Pittsburgh, while becoming a nicer city, really lacks anything that could sustain a crime family. Gambling only goes so far and the percentage that the mob controlled in the 50's is far more than what they control now.

Of course, we can look at Philly and wonder what the hell purpose they serve in the larger scheme, Philly is not a very important city but nonetheless that group remains fucking Rocky Balboa.


Now in terms of a diminished hierarchy, the most important rank remains the Boss. This role, as representative of the area, serves as a conduit with other groups. If someone wishes to go to that area, this Boss is alerted and its dealt with politically. That is the role that John Tronolone played as boss of Pittsburgh while he lived in Florida the entire time. The next is Underboss, captains aren't really needed unless the group is sizable enough. Not every Family in Sicily had capos, with some groups ranging from 7-15 members it makes little sense. But the Boss is the Boss. Without it, then I'd say a group ceases to be a Family entirely. But that's going back to "viable" semantics which have been debated ad nauseam.

Agreed, good post

[Wiseguy]

You should have a brain before posting but that doesn’t seem to be stopping you

That's the best you got, huh?

Yeah, your best play probably is to deflect attention away from your ignorance.

[Moscone65]

You should have a brain before posting but that doesn’t seem to be stopping you

That's the best you got, huh?

Yeah, your best play probably is to deflect attention away from your ignorance.

Sure, whatever you say, “wiseguy”

[Angelo Santino]

I find the theory that the New York families have taken over the rackets of other families like Pittsburgh, completely hilarious. I'd like to know how this proposed takeover goes, in the 21st Century. How do they instigate such a takeover? How do they know who to ask? How do they know where to look for these families' rackets, especially when these families have had little-to-no communication with New York families in at least 20 years.

Does Liborio Bellomo whip out his computer, google who the last-known boss of the Pittsburgh Mafia, and flick him an email? Does he pay for two of his underlings to fly up and scope out his address? Is it worth going to Pittsburgh to shake down an old geezer's video poker gig?

I understand the argument that the New York mobsters use longstanding connections to these stagnant families, like L.A., to assume them into their organization. For example, the Colombo family has former consigliere Dominic Montemarano living in Beverly Hills, where he maintained (or possibly still maintains) social connections to certain L.A. mobsters. But what happens from there? Does Montemarano have to interrogate a bunch of old men to see if they're still "operating?" Is it like a biker-style "patch over?"

I just want to know how this theory of "Mafia centralization" actually happens in crime families like Pittsburgh or L.A., where ties to New York are minimal at best. Other than certain cases like how the Gambinos apparently assumed the Tampa Mob's operations, or how the DeCavalcantes began to "run under the fucking Gambinos" (as Charles Stango put it), how can we confidently assume that this happens anywhere else? I think that theory relies on the belief that the Mafia has a well-oiled corporate structure, or that the nationwide Commission is still a ruling Mafia body.

Also, I would like to here the forum's take on this. Do you think anybody in the Chicago Mafia has a direct link to any New York mobsters? Would anybody from a New York family recognize anybody from the Outfit in a police lineup? To take it further, does the Detroit mob have any direct link to New York either?

"Hey, given how much heat the Gambinos have received in recent years, what if they were to consider moving to a new part of the country and running things from there? I imagine if they moved the Arizona they wouldn't be as well known." <-- Y2k Mafia forum poster. Some dunsky actually said that way back when on AmericanMafia.

What you're raising involves Mafia Politics and what I said previously about the importance of Boss as someone who 'represents' the area. If you're Joe Loose and I'm Mike the fuckup from Cleveland and I get into some altercation with someone from NY that gets their attention, you're going to be contacted, "do you know this guy?" If you "don't know me" you either really don't, or you're saying I'm someone you don't care what happens to. And if you do know me, then a whole host of other scenarios. The point is, NY acknowledged CL by reaching out to them, as opposed to walking in and hitting me without asking/consulting or giving you a heads up.

There were bosses that invested in mob ventures in other cities. Costello was linked to New Orleans. Beyond that and a few members who relocated to other cities, there's really never been a "takeover."

When Birmingham disbanded, they were represented by the Bonannos (I think) on the Commission. I think it's a similar scenario involving Tampa (if that's even left) or the DeCavs when they say "under the Gambinos." That to me, doesn't mean takeover like they were absorbed, but rather that's their contact to NY which remains the epicenter. But it's not like Cefalu is going to call Tampa or the DeCavs in and demand to know where's the fucking money is a la Tony Soprano. I don't even know if money is/was sent beyond generous holiday envelopes.

Theoretically, Tampa or the DeCavs developing/embracing a closer position with the Gambinos would further develop contacts between members in those groups and hence more business between them. Maybe Tampa needed some money pooled to go into a book and some Gambinos would see an investment opportunity. That's how things would likely work out, they're more pragmatic than what we give them credit for.

[johnny_scootch]

When Birmingham disbanded, they were represented by the Bonannos (I think) on the Commission.

The remaining members interests were looked after by Gagliano.

[JeremyTheJew]

A lot has to do w ethnicities as well. Seeing how the mob is still require full Italians minus few scenarios... Places like Philly make it due to there being large Italian population still. As well as NYC. Other then that tho it's declining.

I think Federal Hill is the next big Italian spot. Hence some small activity... Kinda.

[Angelo Santino]

When Birmingham disbanded, they were represented by the Bonannos (I think) on the Commission.

The remaining members interests were looked after by Gagliano.

Yes, noted.

A lot has to do w ethnicities as well. Seeing how the mob is still require full Italians minus few scenarios... Places like Philly make it due to there being large Italian population still. As well as NYC. Other then that tho it's declining.

I think Federal Hill is the next big Italian spot. Hence some small activity... Kinda.

Italian demographics are key. But I would argue you need a certain kind. Italians have a very long history in Philadelphia going back to the early 1800's, but it was the Sicilians from Caccamo and western cities who imported the Mafia to that city between 1895 and 1905. 100 years later, everybody is American now but in the passing previously century, certain families grew up alongside, intermarried and just maintained a strong link with each other.

Speaking from firsthand knowledge, I can verify and attest that many Detroit members belong to families spread throughout Michigan and beyond. Cousins, brothers, uncles, second and third whatever. All from different walks of life. Carlo Bommarito was an addict who died of an overdose, his second cousin, upstanding go-getter who's part of local government. The connections between Italian relatives remains tighter than that of the average American family. It's still somewhat of a subcommunity in American culture, albeit a fading one.

As this relates to NYC, the mob has had to rely more on this subcommunity as "the old neighborhood" disappears. Coincidently, the families of Cleveland and Pittsburgh and the like had to contend this with since the 20's. Upward mobility spread alot of people out and while mob members like to live close to each other, it wasn't a NY setting with a capo sitting in a cafe in the middle of his territory being an Italian sector. Most of the captains of Pittsburgh and Cleveland were lucky if they had two formally made members under them, but that cannot be attributed to an anemic Italian population as there were plenty, both Families for their own reasons didn't find the need for supercrews of 30 like we see in New York.

[scott22]

Ive come to believe from my research that Carlo Bommarito was most likely "hot dosed," killed for being an addict and informant on Billy Giacalone's orders. I wrote about this in a guest Gangland News column for Capeci in 2015 or 16. Not trying to derail this thread, just wanted to note it since Bommarito's '07 OD was referenced.

Scott Burnstein

[Angelo Santino]

Ive come to believe from my research that Carlo Bommarito was most likely "hot dosed," killed for being an addict and informant on Billy Giacalone's orders. I wrote about this in a guest Gangland News column for Capeci in 2015 or 16. Not trying to derail this thread, just wanted to note it since Bommarito's '07 OD was referenced.

Scott Burnstein

What are your thought on what else I said regarding Detroit members' extended blood families in the non-OC realm? Accurate or would you clarify?

How come Hollywood Ron Morelli isn't discussed? I think he's an interesting figure from what you've said.

[Nicholas]

Ive come to believe from my research that Carlo Bommarito was most likely "hot dosed," killed for being an addict and informant on Billy Giacalone's orders. I wrote about this in a guest Gangland News column for Capeci in 2015 or 16. Not trying to derail this thread, just wanted to note it since Bommarito's '07 OD was referenced.

Scott Burnstein

Capeci writes about the Detroit family?