Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[AntComello]

Somehow you don't seem or simply refuse to realise that you aren't going to change the minds of those who have a different pov on this subject than you. Let me ask you a simple question: why are you keep on doing this and want are you still expecting to gain with it at this point?

(Personally I think you live for this kind of shit but that's just me.)

So, much like the Detroit arguments from a decade ago, I can point to these when we're 10 years from now and these Buffalo theories have fallen apart

13 identifiable members in the U.S. and Canada....what about the unidentifiable ones?

How many members do you think are able to fly under the radar today? Better yet, where did the Hamilton faction find the wherewithal and resources to start making guys in big numbers? And why weren't they doing it all along?

yeah, according to violi wiretaps there are 30 made members, honestly it's not so fiction that with the help of the bonanno's there is a viable family again, 30 members (not 300), especially in canada where there is a big italian community and mafia presence

The Bonannos have a lot bigger concerns than helping Buffalo get back on it's feet.

But you keep believing that. Like I said above, what are you going to say 10 years from now when all these theories have gone to pot? Probably much like those who argued for Detroit 10 years ago. Crickets.

I don’t even read wiseguys comments on this topic anymore I just scroll right past them

[Moscone65]

You take it to literally. The Hamilton faction is effectively the Buffalo family. And I think it is quite likely that some of those 13 members left in Buffalo are still involved.

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

If it was just the Hamilton faction making a resurgence then it wouldn’t be the buffalo mafia, rather just the Luppinos. Clearly violi has respect for todaro, with all the way he was talking about him. Buffalo must have something to offer and be active to an extent. No ifs ands or buts. Your arguments don’t make much sense wiseguy, I get what your saying about people jumping the gun and saying they are some huge powerhouse of a family, but the fact of the matter is there are guys in buffalo that are still respected by powerful and violent, active Canadian mafiosi.

It's a technicality within the world of LCN. Being made and having a formal affiliation with Buffalo/Todaro gives Violi legitimacy. But, as has been pointed out with other examples, that doesn't change the overall state of the Buffalo family.

It's like referring to the Newark crew under Joe Licata as members of the Philadelphia family, which is done without controversy.

The situation could be comparable to the Philly family in 1990: the (acting) boss was in Philadelphia where the family's operations and size were greatly diminished and they promoted a Newark member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

From the info we currently have, the Buffalo family has a boss in Buffalo where their operations and size are greatly diminished and they promoted a Hamilton member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

The comparison ends there, as I don't expect Buffalo to have a resurgence today like Philly had in the mid-1990s and it's a different organization with a different history, but we have seen families lean on an outlying crew in an effort to hang on.

That's a fairly good example.

The big question is what the full membership is like in Canada, as LE has had difficulty confirming Canadian Cosa Nostra members, at least publicly. Is it like the old DeCavalcante Connecticut crew, where they had an underboss and a captain, but only a few soldiers under them? Or are some of these other well-known Canadian figures made members of the Buffalo family like Violi and the Luppinos turned out to be?

I don't think there's much chance of a bunch of identified members up there. Especially today. And, as I've shown ad nauseum, there's no way they could even come close to replacing the number of guys who've died in recent years. You're looking at two guys who are an underboss and a captain, and likely a very small crew.

But even with this resurgence of sorts, though to even call it that is somewhat of a stretch, the majority of the members are in Buffalo. And the majority of activity over the past 20 years, as sparse and disjointed as it's been, has been in Buffalo. Hamilton just had these recent - and I'm thinking last - hurrah.

That still means that they must be a recognized family by the NY 5. There has to be more than just remnants for a reasonably powerful Canadian crew, making decent money and with a c alacrity for violence, to want to be under the wing of todaro/buffalo. If it was really bad to the point of a few geezers runnin my Mickey Mouse card games I seriously doubt the violis would be proud to be under their wing.

[Lupara]

You take it to literally. The Hamilton faction is effectively the Buffalo family. And I think it is quite likely that some of those 13 members left in Buffalo are still involved.

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

If it was just the Hamilton faction making a resurgence then it wouldn’t be the buffalo mafia, rather just the Luppinos. Clearly violi has respect for todaro, with all the way he was talking about him. Buffalo must have something to offer and be active to an extent. No ifs ands or buts. Your arguments don’t make much sense wiseguy, I get what your saying about people jumping the gun and saying they are some huge powerhouse of a family, but the fact of the matter is there are guys in buffalo that are still respected by powerful and violent, active Canadian mafiosi.

It's a technicality within the world of LCN. Being made and having a formal affiliation with Buffalo/Todaro gives Violi legitimacy. But, as has been pointed out with other examples, that doesn't change the overall state of the Buffalo family.

It's like referring to the Newark crew under Joe Licata as members of the Philadelphia family, which is done without controversy.

The situation could be comparable to the Philly family in 1990: the (acting) boss was in Philadelphia where the family's operations and size were greatly diminished and they promoted a Newark member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

From the info we currently have, the Buffalo family has a boss in Buffalo where their operations and size are greatly diminished and they promoted a Hamilton member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

The comparison ends there, as I don't expect Buffalo to have a resurgence today like Philly had in the mid-1990s and it's a different organization with a different history, but we have seen families lean on an outlying crew in an effort to hang on.

That's a fairly good example.

The big question is what the full membership is like in Canada, as LE has had difficulty confirming Canadian Cosa Nostra members, at least publicly. Is it like the old DeCavalcante Connecticut crew, where they had an underboss and a captain, but only a few soldiers under them? Or are some of these other well-known Canadian figures made members of the Buffalo family like Violi and the Luppinos turned out to be?

I don't think there's much chance of a bunch of identified members up there. Especially today. And, as I've shown ad nauseum, there's no way they could even come close to replacing the number of guys who've died in recent years. You're looking at two guys who are an underboss and a captain, and likely a very small crew.

But even with this resurgence of sorts, though to even call it that is somewhat of a stretch, the majority of the members are in Buffalo. And the majority of activity over the past 20 years, as sparse and disjointed as it's been, has been in Buffalo. Hamilton just had these recent - and I'm thinking last - hurrah.

That still means that they must be a recognized family by the NY 5. There has to be more than just remnants for a reasonably powerful Canadian crew, making decent money and with a c alacrity for violence, to want to be under the wing of todaro/buffalo. If it was really bad to the point of a few geezers runnin my Mickey Mouse card games I seriously doubt the violis would be proud to be under their wing.

I think it's the bigger picture. Cosa Nostra as a whole still means something. It's a good argument btw. If Buffalo is non existant there is no incentive to join them. The Bonannos or others could've usurped their territory and it wouldn't have been unnatural for Violi to join them, yet he still chose Buffalo, likely because of their weakened state there was the opportunity to quickly rise through the ranks and build something. In the Bonannos he would've probably still been a soldier taking orders from New York. With Todaro likely still remaining as nominal boss (recognised by the other families) Violi would basically be a boss of his own. It was a win-win situation for both parties. Buffalo itself could be mostly dormant (but still recognised within the mob which weighs heavier than what the feds consider them to be) which gives Violi a free hand to do whatever he felt necessary in Canada and yet still continue the family's legacy under the Cosa Nostra banner.

[Lupara]

So, much like the Detroit arguments from a decade ago, I can point to these when we're 10 years from now and these Buffalo theories have fallen apart.

Good for you, but I very much doubt anybody besides you would care much about it.

I think most people here would rather like to share information and discuss recent events instead of being in a circlejerk debate all the time.

[Moscone65]

You take it to literally. The Hamilton faction is effectively the Buffalo family. And I think it is quite likely that some of those 13 members left in Buffalo are still involved.

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

If it was just the Hamilton faction making a resurgence then it wouldn’t be the buffalo mafia, rather just the Luppinos. Clearly violi has respect for todaro, with all the way he was talking about him. Buffalo must have something to offer and be active to an extent. No ifs ands or buts. Your arguments don’t make much sense wiseguy, I get what your saying about people jumping the gun and saying they are some huge powerhouse of a family, but the fact of the matter is there are guys in buffalo that are still respected by powerful and violent, active Canadian mafiosi.

It's a technicality within the world of LCN. Being made and having a formal affiliation with Buffalo/Todaro gives Violi legitimacy. But, as has been pointed out with other examples, that doesn't change the overall state of the Buffalo family.

It's like referring to the Newark crew under Joe Licata as members of the Philadelphia family, which is done without controversy.

The situation could be comparable to the Philly family in 1990: the (acting) boss was in Philadelphia where the family's operations and size were greatly diminished and they promoted a Newark member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

From the info we currently have, the Buffalo family has a boss in Buffalo where their operations and size are greatly diminished and they promoted a Hamilton member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

The comparison ends there, as I don't expect Buffalo to have a resurgence today like Philly had in the mid-1990s and it's a different organization with a different history, but we have seen families lean on an outlying crew in an effort to hang on.

That's a fairly good example.

The big question is what the full membership is like in Canada, as LE has had difficulty confirming Canadian Cosa Nostra members, at least publicly. Is it like the old DeCavalcante Connecticut crew, where they had an underboss and a captain, but only a few soldiers under them? Or are some of these other well-known Canadian figures made members of the Buffalo family like Violi and the Luppinos turned out to be?

I don't think there's much chance of a bunch of identified members up there. Especially today. And, as I've shown ad nauseum, there's no way they could even come close to replacing the number of guys who've died in recent years. You're looking at two guys who are an underboss and a captain, and likely a very small crew.

But even with this resurgence of sorts, though to even call it that is somewhat of a stretch, the majority of the members are in Buffalo. And the majority of activity over the past 20 years, as sparse and disjointed as it's been, has been in Buffalo. Hamilton just had these recent - and I'm thinking last - hurrah.

That still means that they must be a recognized family by the NY 5. There has to be more than just remnants for a reasonably powerful Canadian crew, making decent money and with a c alacrity for violence, to want to be under the wing of todaro/buffalo. If it was really bad to the point of a few geezers runnin my Mickey Mouse card games I seriously doubt the violis would be proud to be under their wing.

I think it's the bigger picture. Cosa Nostra as a whole still means something. It's a good argument btw. If Buffalo is non existant there is no incentive to join them. The Bonannos or others could've usurped their territory and it wouldn't have been unnatural for Violi to join them, yet he still chose Buffalo, likely because of their weakened state there was the opportunity to quickly rise through the ranks and build something. In the Bonannos he would've probably still been a soldier taking orders from New York. With Todaro likely still remaining as nominal boss (recognised by the other families) Violi would basically be a boss of his own. It was a win-win situation for both parties. Buffalo itself could be mostly dormant (but still recognised within the mob which weighs heavier than what the feds consider them to be) which gives Violi a free hand to do whatever he felt necessary in Canada and yet still continue the family's legacy under the Cosa Nostra banner.

Exactly, and building off what your said, I think this is one of the rare cases where a family has actually rebuilt to a decent extent. The Canadian crew probably brought in some decent money for them and put buffalo snake back in the board as a serious player In Canada as well.

[Moscone65]

Sorry if some of my typing is messed up, I’m typing fast, too busy to go back and edit

[maxiestern11]

These are good analogies about Buffalos strength and significance in the scheme of things... glad to see guys thinking this way because I believe you are correct.
....
Buffalo is still a thing! And a viable entity. bravo!

[Wiseguy]

I don’t even read wiseguys comments on this topic anymore I just scroll right past them

Wow, another idiot that thinks I care if he reads my posts.

That still means that they must be a recognized family by the NY 5. There has to be more than just remnants for a reasonably powerful Canadian crew, making decent money and with a c alacrity for violence, to want to be under the wing of todaro/buffalo. If it was really bad to the point of a few geezers runnin my Mickey Mouse card games I seriously doubt the violis would be proud to be under their wing.

Yeah, a "reasonably powerful Canadian crew" who's had a single bust in 20 years. And what do you mean a capacity for violence? Notice how much of your argument depends on pure speculation.

Good for you, but I very much doubt anybody besides you would care much about it.

I think most people here would rather like to share information and discuss recent events instead of being in a circlejerk debate all the time.

Sharing information and discussing recent events is fine and what the forum is all about. It's some of the delusional conclusions people reach that are at issue.

Exactly, and building off what your said, I think this is one of the rare cases where a family has actually rebuilt to a decent extent. The Canadian crew probably brought in some decent money for them and put buffalo snake back in the board as a serious player In Canada as well.

Thank you for providing a perfect example of the delusional conclusions I mentioned above.

[Moscone65]

I don’t even read wiseguys comments on this topic anymore I just scroll right past them

Wow, another idiot that thinks I care if he reads my posts.

That still means that they must be a recognized family by the NY 5. There has to be more than just remnants for a reasonably powerful Canadian crew, making decent money and with a c alacrity for violence, to want to be under the wing of todaro/buffalo. If it was really bad to the point of a few geezers runnin my Mickey Mouse card games I seriously doubt the violis would be proud to be under their wing.

Yeah, a "reasonably powerful Canadian crew" who's had a single bust in 20 years. And what do you mean a capacity for violence? Notice how much of your argument depends on pure speculation.

Good for you, but I very much doubt anybody besides you would care much about it.

I think most people here would rather like to share information and discuss recent events instead of being in a circlejerk debate all the time.

Sharing information and discussing recent events is fine and what the forum is all about. It's some of the delusional conclusions people reach that are at issue.

Exactly, and building off what your said, I think this is one of the rare cases where a family has actually rebuilt to a decent extent. The Canadian crew probably brought in some decent money for them and put buffalo snake back in the board as a serious player In Canada as well.

Thank you for providing a perfect example of the delusional conclusions I mentioned above.

The violis are a crew, with the latest bust in 2017. I dint get what your trying to say here buddy , they need to have several busts in 20 years to be verified as active?? And yes they are violent, the Luppinos as a whole are currently in a violent struggle with rival factions, this is known. Are you losing it up there wiseguy?

[johnny_scootch]

Wow you're all still on the merry go round huh? Nice. I'll jump on for a minute and say that for my part until information comes out that contradicts the statements recorded by a made CI of the Buffalo underboss literally saying his family has 30 members I'm going to keep believing that Buffalo has around 30 members despite Wiseguys persistent yet futile efforts to change peoples minds.

[TommyNoto]

You take it to literally. The Hamilton faction is effectively the Buffalo family. And I think it is quite likely that some of those 13 members left in Buffalo are still involved.

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

If it was just the Hamilton faction making a resurgence then it wouldn’t be the buffalo mafia, rather just the Luppinos. Clearly violi has respect for todaro, with all the way he was talking about him. Buffalo must have something to offer and be active to an extent. No ifs ands or buts. Your arguments don’t make much sense wiseguy, I get what your saying about people jumping the gun and saying they are some huge powerhouse of a family, but the fact of the matter is there are guys in buffalo that are still respected by powerful and violent, active Canadian mafiosi.

It's a technicality within the world of LCN. Being made and having a formal affiliation with Buffalo/Todaro gives Violi legitimacy. But, as has been pointed out with other examples, that doesn't change the overall state of the Buffalo family.

It's like referring to the Newark crew under Joe Licata as members of the Philadelphia family, which is done without controversy.

The situation could be comparable to the Philly family in 1990: the (acting) boss was in Philadelphia where the family's operations and size were greatly diminished and they promoted a Newark member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

From the info we currently have, the Buffalo family has a boss in Buffalo where their operations and size are greatly diminished and they promoted a Hamilton member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

The comparison ends there, as I don't expect Buffalo to have a resurgence today like Philly had in the mid-1990s and it's a different organization with a different history, but we have seen families lean on an outlying crew in an effort to hang on.

That's a fairly good example.

The big question is what the full membership is like in Canada, as LE has had difficulty confirming Canadian Cosa Nostra members, at least publicly. Is it like the old DeCavalcante Connecticut crew, where they had an underboss and a captain, but only a few soldiers under them? Or are some of these other well-known Canadian figures made members of the Buffalo family like Violi and the Luppinos turned out to be?

I don't think there's much chance of a bunch of identified members up there. Especially today. And, as I've shown ad nauseum, there's no way they could even come close to replacing the number of guys who've died in recent years. You're looking at two guys who are an underboss and a captain, and likely a very small crew.

But even with this resurgence of sorts, though to even call it that is somewhat of a stretch, the majority of the members are in Buffalo. And the majority of activity over the past 20 years, as sparse and disjointed as it's been, has been in Buffalo. Hamilton just had these recent - and I'm thinking last - hurrah.

That still means that they must be a recognized family by the NY 5. There has to be more than just remnants for a reasonably powerful Canadian crew, making decent money and with a c alacrity for violence, to want to be under the wing of todaro/buffalo. If it was really bad to the point of a few geezers runnin my Mickey Mouse card games I seriously doubt the violis would be proud to be under their wing.

I think it's the bigger picture. Cosa Nostra as a whole still means something. It's a good argument btw. If Buffalo is non existant there is no incentive to join them. The Bonannos or others could've usurped their territory and it wouldn't have been unnatural for Violi to join them, yet he still chose Buffalo, likely because of their weakened state there was the opportunity to quickly rise through the ranks and build something. In the Bonannos he would've probably still been a soldier taking orders from New York. With Todaro likely still remaining as nominal boss (recognised by the other families) Violi would basically be a boss of his own. It was a win-win situation for both parties. Buffalo itself could be mostly dormant (but still recognised within the mob which weighs heavier than what the feds consider them to be) which gives Violi a free hand to do whatever he felt necessary in Canada and yet still continue the family's legacy under the Cosa Nostra banner.

Exactly, and building off what your said, I think this is one of the rare cases where a family has actually rebuilt to a decent extent. The Canadian crew probably brought in some decent money for them and put buffalo snake back in the board as a serious player In Canada as well.

At what level do they fit into the drug game ( wholesaler or far smaller ? ) and their relationship with Bonnano’s interests me . I hope more comes out. It’s possible the Bonnanos are large customers of Italian Buffalo / Canada suppliers

[Moscone65]

You take it to literally. The Hamilton faction is effectively the Buffalo family. And I think it is quite likely that some of those 13 members left in Buffalo are still involved.

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

If it was just the Hamilton faction making a resurgence then it wouldn’t be the buffalo mafia, rather just the Luppinos. Clearly violi has respect for todaro, with all the way he was talking about him. Buffalo must have something to offer and be active to an extent. No ifs ands or buts. Your arguments don’t make much sense wiseguy, I get what your saying about people jumping the gun and saying they are some huge powerhouse of a family, but the fact of the matter is there are guys in buffalo that are still respected by powerful and violent, active Canadian mafiosi.

It's a technicality within the world of LCN. Being made and having a formal affiliation with Buffalo/Todaro gives Violi legitimacy. But, as has been pointed out with other examples, that doesn't change the overall state of the Buffalo family.

It's like referring to the Newark crew under Joe Licata as members of the Philadelphia family, which is done without controversy.

The situation could be comparable to the Philly family in 1990: the (acting) boss was in Philadelphia where the family's operations and size were greatly diminished and they promoted a Newark member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

From the info we currently have, the Buffalo family has a boss in Buffalo where their operations and size are greatly diminished and they promoted a Hamilton member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

The comparison ends there, as I don't expect Buffalo to have a resurgence today like Philly had in the mid-1990s and it's a different organization with a different history, but we have seen families lean on an outlying crew in an effort to hang on.

That's a fairly good example.

The big question is what the full membership is like in Canada, as LE has had difficulty confirming Canadian Cosa Nostra members, at least publicly. Is it like the old DeCavalcante Connecticut crew, where they had an underboss and a captain, but only a few soldiers under them? Or are some of these other well-known Canadian figures made members of the Buffalo family like Violi and the Luppinos turned out to be?

I don't think there's much chance of a bunch of identified members up there. Especially today. And, as I've shown ad nauseum, there's no way they could even come close to replacing the number of guys who've died in recent years. You're looking at two guys who are an underboss and a captain, and likely a very small crew.

But even with this resurgence of sorts, though to even call it that is somewhat of a stretch, the majority of the members are in Buffalo. And the majority of activity over the past 20 years, as sparse and disjointed as it's been, has been in Buffalo. Hamilton just had these recent - and I'm thinking last - hurrah.

That still means that they must be a recognized family by the NY 5. There has to be more than just remnants for a reasonably powerful Canadian crew, making decent money and with a c alacrity for violence, to want to be under the wing of todaro/buffalo. If it was really bad to the point of a few geezers runnin my Mickey Mouse card games I seriously doubt the violis would be proud to be under their wing.

I think it's the bigger picture. Cosa Nostra as a whole still means something. It's a good argument btw. If Buffalo is non existant there is no incentive to join them. The Bonannos or others could've usurped their territory and it wouldn't have been unnatural for Violi to join them, yet he still chose Buffalo, likely because of their weakened state there was the opportunity to quickly rise through the ranks and build something. In the Bonannos he would've probably still been a soldier taking orders from New York. With Todaro likely still remaining as nominal boss (recognised by the other families) Violi would basically be a boss of his own. It was a win-win situation for both parties. Buffalo itself could be mostly dormant (but still recognised within the mob which weighs heavier than what the feds consider them to be) which gives Violi a free hand to do whatever he felt necessary in Canada and yet still continue the family's legacy under the Cosa Nostra banner.

Exactly, and building off what your said, I think this is one of the rare cases where a family has actually rebuilt to a decent extent. The Canadian crew probably brought in some decent money for them and put buffalo snake back in the board as a serious player In Canada as well.

At what level do they fit into the drug game ( wholesaler or far smaller ? ) and their relationship with Bonnano’s interests me . I hope more comes out. It’s possible the Bonnanos are large customers of Italian Buffalo / Canada suppliers

The violis were big into trafficking fentanyl and all that crap into Hamilton. Also crack back in the day when it had a huge demand was run by them in Hamilton. Hamilton is a small city but there’s a lot of white trash in the city and blue collar guys, so drugs and vice is very prevalent there for a city it’s size and therefore highly profitable to control the Hamilton market.

[Frank]

Whatever the size of their drug business, it must be split with the Bonannos, with Joe Viola having his choice of being made with either the Bonannos or Buffalo That's what I get out of the info.

[Frank]

You gotta remember one of the FBI criteria for a viable Family, is can it withstand indictments. That technically means it doesn't have to be completely gone.

[Wiseguy]

Wow you're all still on the merry go round huh? Nice. I'll jump on for a minute and say that for my part until information comes out that contradicts the statements recorded by a made CI of the Buffalo underboss literally saying his family has 30 members I'm going to keep believing that Buffalo has around 30 members despite Wiseguys persistent yet futile efforts to change peoples minds.

Information already has come out. Too many people have been too lazy to consider it or simply don't want to.

We all know the FBI had Buffalo at 23 remaining members in 2006, right? So how do we make sense of Violi's statement?


Scenario #1

The first argument supporting Violi's comment is that the family has made enough members to get back up to 30+ members. It would actually be 32 members, since Violi didn't beat out himself for the underboss spot, and Todaro wasn't in the running for it either.

So we have the 23 members by the feds in 2006 and Violi making that comment in 2017. We also known at least 10 members died between the 2006 FBI chart and the 2017 Violi statement, dropping that 23 member figure to 13.

So, in scenario #1, one has to argue that in the relatively short span between 2006 and 2017 - a little over a decade - Buffalo made 19 guys. 19 guys!

Can any serious poster on this forum, who is in any way grounded in reality, really think they were able to make 19 guys in 11 years? Where did all these new recruits suddenly come from? And why weren't they making these numbers all along as their membership plummeted over the years?

Any objective observer can see this scenario has real problems.


Scenario #2

The other scenario attempting to justify Violi's comment is that, when the FBI had Buffalo at 23 members in 2006, they had not identified all the members. And this, in turn, would make it easier for Buffalo to be at 30+ members today.

Once again, does any serious poster who is grounded in reality think that a significant number of members were unknown to law enforcement in the 21st century? Even in Canada?

And, for those who want to argue that Canadian members could fly under the radar easier, this presents another problem. Because they essentially have to argue that most of the family today is in Canada, not Buffalo. After all, we know there are around 11 living members in Buffalo.

So, you have to contend that the remaining 20+ members to get up to 32 are in Canada! Does anyone really believe that two-thirds of the family today are in Hamilton? A recent article even said that the majority of the members still living are in Buffalo. So how does that work exactly?

Any objective observer can see this scenario also has real problems.


Scenario #3

The only other scenario, that I can think of, is that Violi simply made a passing, off-the-cuff comment that shouldn't necessarily be taken at face value.

In this scenario, the FBI was correct - or close to being correct - about there being 23 remaining members in 2006. And that however many members have been made since then would, in all likelihood, not be enough to replace the 10 members that died to get to 23; much less replace them and make enough new members to get the family back up to over 30 members.

This scenario is not only supported by information from the FBI and other law enforcement, it's supported by the relative lack of cases we've seen in Buffalo and especially in Hamilton over the past 20 years.

This is the only scenario that doesn't have the holes the first two do. But it's easier for some to simply say, "But...but...Violi said..."