Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[scagghiuni]

If Adrian Humphreys’s source is correct about Fiorda having been a made guy, into which secret society was Fiorda made? We can have a discussion here about whether non-Calabrians outside of Italy can be ‘ndranghetisti; I don’t think they can. Could Fiorda have been made into the Buffalo Family?

in north italy there are sicilians and neapolitans members of ndrangheta, i bet there are some abroad too

[Pogo The Clown]

On one hand, you have a man who is the boss of a defunct family, but is treated with the respect of a boss by other crime families nonetheless. Note that this man, William D'Elia, was the boss when the family was still functioning, and it was simply through general attrition that he outlived the rest of the crime family.

Not sure about that. D'Elia took over as Boss in the early 1990s and by the time he was dealing with Natale in the mid-90s he was the last active member. So how functional were they really when he took over?


Don't know about racketeering/OC activity either. There hasn't been an LCN member busted in Buffalo since 2002. Disregarding some of the hype and speculation in this thread, there really haven't been any LCN related cases out of Buffalo in 10 years. We also have direct statements from the Feds and other LE in 2017 and 2019 saying it is gone.


Pogo

[TommyNoto]

It is an established fact that even you cannot ignore that Canadian mobsters active in Hamilton and Toronto, up until this day, are tied to Buffalo in one form or another. Now whether that means there is still a functioning family remains to be seen. But at this point there's just a little bit too much compiling evidence to disregard that possibility based on a now dated FBI statement. Until the feds repeat this statement the debate and possibilies remain open. Buffalo may not be gone and there is nothing you can do about it so far.

It was also "an established fact" that William D'Elia was tied to the New York and Philadelphia families "in one form or another." Didn't mean much as far as the actual state of the Bufalino family. You guys will be living on "possibilities" and "what ifs" for years to come because that's all you're going to get.

No disrespect, but I think the term "apples and oranges" applies here.

On one hand, you have a man who is the boss of a defunct family, but is treated with the respect of a boss by other crime families nonetheless. Note that this man, William D'Elia, was the boss when the family was still functioning, and it was simply through general attrition that he outlived the rest of the crime family.

On the other hand, you have a man who was recently inducted into an apparently-defunct family. Indeed, such an anomaly did happen with the Rochester crime family, when a stand-alone induction ceremony was held in 2000 IIRC. But then this inductee, Violi, was later promoted to underboss, allegedly by the boss himself, Joe Todaro. Again, meaningless promotions have happened in the past, so this isn't a conclusive answer. But on top of all that, there is also evidence that the "Todaro crime family" has an active crew in Canada, and is continuing to hold more induction ceremonies (since Violi's brother was debating which family to join, right?)

WG, you've been able to find a plausible explanation for each of these anomalies, pointing to similar "defunct" families. William D'Elia. Rochester. Los Angeles. There have been plenty of cases where the structure of a crime family sometimes outlasts the actual viability of the crime family. But the problem with Buffalo is that it is not just one anomaly. It is not just one exception that proves the rule. It is multiple anomalies that all piece together to indicate that Buffalo indeed has an active Mafia presence. We have:
- An alleged boss, a confirmed, active underboss, an active capo, etc.
- A recent induction ceremony.
- The expectation/assumption of more making ceremonies (Violi's brother).
- Racketeering/organized crime activity.
- Confirmation from Canadian law enforcement that the Todaro crime family is an active criminal force that is being watched and investigated by law enforcement north of the border.

This is exactly where I’m at , well said

I’m 99% sure and 1% that everything is just totally flukey

[Wiseguy]

No disrespect, but I think the term "apples and oranges" applies here.

On one hand, you have a man who is the boss of a defunct family, but is treated with the respect of a boss by other crime families nonetheless. Note that this man, William D'Elia, was the boss when the family was still functioning, and it was simply through general attrition that he outlived the rest of the crime family.

On the other hand, you have a man who was recently inducted into an apparently-defunct family. Indeed, such an anomaly did happen with the Rochester crime family, when a stand-alone induction ceremony was held in 2000 IIRC. But then this inductee, Violi, was later promoted to underboss, allegedly by the boss himself, Joe Todaro. Again, meaningless promotions have happened in the past, so this isn't a conclusive answer. But on top of all that, there is also evidence that the "Todaro crime family" has an active crew in Canada, and is continuing to hold more induction ceremonies (since Violi's brother was debating which family to join, right?)

WG, you've been able to find a plausible explanation for each of these anomalies, pointing to similar "defunct" families. William D'Elia. Rochester. Los Angeles. There have been plenty of cases where the structure of a crime family sometimes outlasts the actual viability of the crime family. But the problem with Buffalo is that it is not just one anomaly. It is not just one exception that proves the rule. It is multiple anomalies that all piece together to indicate that Buffalo indeed has an active Mafia presence. We have:
- An alleged boss, a confirmed, active underboss, an active capo, etc.
- A recent induction ceremony.
- The expectation/assumption of more making ceremonies (Violi's brother).
- Racketeering/organized crime activity.
- Confirmation from Canadian law enforcement that the Todaro crime family is an active criminal force that is being watched and investigated by law enforcement north of the border.

Time will show - though some of us already realize it - that this is all more form than substance. Sorry, but a family like Buffalo is not going to be relatively inactive for 20+ years, with a continually declining membership, and then at some point find the wherewithal and resources to undergo a "resurrection" or "resurgence." Anyone who is familiar with LCN general trends across the U.S. knows this just doesn't happen today. You have to start with that understanding to view this in the right context or you very well might be led to believe Buffalo has somehow achieved the virtually impossible.

I think most will agree that Todaro is a titular boss at this point and does little beyond his pizza business. As for Violi and Luppino, "active" is a relative term. Violi has been involved in one bust. Luppino is reportedly a captain but what exactly have we seen beyond that?

You already pointed out above why we shouldn't necessarily read too much into their being a ceremony. But this does bring us back to simple math, which is one of the biggest factors working against a family like Buffalo. I've been over it several times. 23 members in 2006. Now down to 13 members, most of whom are on the U.S. side of the border. If people want to hang their hat on Violi's "beating out 30 guys" statement, they can, but a family like Buffalo is not going to get down to 23 members in 2006...then have enough guys to replace the 10 that will die over the next 14 years, plus an additional 7 or so to get up to around 30. People have acted like this wouldn't be that hard to do. Again, they don't understand the general trends of the LCN today.

Racketeering/Organized Crime activity? Other than the 2017 drug bust (which did also involve contraband cigarettes, sports betting, and video poker machines), what we've seen involving the Buffalo family both before and since is the same disjointed, penny-ante, residual activity we've seen in other areas where there is no family left but only remnants. At most it could be argued the Hamilton faction has "resurged" to a point. And their connection to the Buffalo LCN is what gives them legitimacy in the world of LCN.

However, as I've said, what we've seen in Hamilton recently, (the drug bust and the murders) is likely more a result of the state of the underworld in Canada than in western/upstate New York. Once more, in 2017 the FBI declared the Buffalo LCN all but dead in Western New York. And in 2019, two other former investigators said there was nothing left in Buffalo. I'm not sure how more clear they can be.

[B.]

Re: Fiorda

The issue of imprecise language continues to be a major hurdle in mafia coverage of any kind, including the US but definitely in Canada:

- A "soldier" or "made man" is often a lieutenant or "manager", with a crew and sphere of influence of his own that he represents and supervises. The word "soldier" gives the impression of a hands-on enforcer type and some soldiers do continue to operate more that way, but a soldier is more often a lieutenant when you look at their MO. The problem is that when the word lieutenant is used by LE or journalists, it is usually interpreted as an equivalent to the mafia rank of capodecina, which is more like a supervisor of lieutenants, and as a result we end up with Montreal "fan" charts where every suspected made man is listed as a capodecina under a traditional boss/underboss/consig hierarchy that is essentially fan fiction.

- Even the term "enforcer" isn't so easy to define. I was looking through old FBN files the other day where various NYC members are described as "enforcers" and it's clear that these men were not beating people up and grabbing neckties themselves, but were "in charge" of enforcement. Vincent Gigante is even said to have had this role in the years leading up to becoming boss. A great example is Joe Ciancaglini of the Philadelphia family, a made member described in an investigation as an "enforcer" for the family, but the investigation showed that Ciancaglini accompanied two associates to intimidate a victim and Ciancaglini did nothing but stand there silently while his associates did all of the "enforcing".

Back to Fiorda... in this way, he could be a made man, an enforcer, and physically deteriorating and still be all of these things if the descriptions are true. He may have continued to use his reputation and status to supervise enforcement of mafia activities.

The question is, who or what is Humphrey's source behind Fiorda being a made guy?

- The only consistent way to identify made members of a mafia family in any country where these groups operate is through member informants and taped recordings of made members discussing membership. There are well-connected associate informants who are trusted enough to be told by a made member about the inner workings of the so-called "secret society", but anyone familiar with CI reports will tell you that the ability of your typical associate informant vs. member informant is like night and day when it comes to accurately identifying made members and affiliation.

- It's also clear that identifying the true ranks and affiliations of members simply by observing their social/criminal/business relationships is hit-and-miss at best. Kinship ties tend to be more accurate than anything else, but even then we have members who marry into blood families that formally belong to different mafia groups and we also have relatives who are made into different groups for their own independent reasons. Without a high-placed informant or bug, it's just too hard to confirm these kinds of details most of the time.

- The mafia is a strange phenomenon because you can have two guys who do business together their entire lives, are seen together daily, and are connected in every visible way, yet they belong to different groups and this distinction is recognized and honored by everyone who is a member of those groups.

Does Canadian LE have any made members currently informing? Do they have any bugs that can give an inside look at the ranks and affiliations of the Canadian mob groups?

- Paolo Violi was recorded in the 1970s giving us a rare inside look at the Montreal Bonanno crew and its relationships, both to its NYC counterparts and the Sicilian mafia. In the 2000s Project Colisee produced another productive bug; aside from providing extensive info on the crew's criminal activities I wonder how much info it provided on the organization that hasn't been made public.

- Recently we had the Ontario-based underboss of the Buffalo family recorded discussing some of these matters with a Bonanno soldier, which has given us the clearest look to date at some of the affiliations in Ontario, though there are still too many questions. Prior to that case, we were operating from vague reports and articles, not even sure where Violi himself belonged. This is what tends to happen in the US as well until an indictment comes down and clears the air.

- We were only exposed to select snippets of the tapes CI Morena made and the information he collected. He very well could have provided more information on "who is what" in Canada that has not been made public. We can only hope that more of Morena's undercover work and debriefings eventually come to light.

I hope Canadian LE does have member sources or bugs in place in Canada because that increases the likelihood of us figuring out the basics. Without those types of sources, though, I don't have confidence in the conclusions that are made.

[CabriniGreen]

Couple questions....

1. This Fiorda.... is it possible he was a caretaker of Violi interest while they are incarcerated, and he was hit to weaken thier connection to the street?


2. Previously, the Violis were caught moving contraband cigarettes, and I believe they came from a Commiso source. Also, that Montreal clan, the Agostino- Albanese were moving lots of Cigarettes, and paying the Violis a tribute.

Could this be the key of Violi Commiso joint operations?

3. The Commisos are probably the true rival of the Rizzutos in Canada. Most likely the strongest family outside Calabria.
Were arnt going to go and make the Siderno group a Buffalo crew now, are we?

I believe these connections are more operational for business, than organizational. If the Violis CANT be ndrangheta, I dont think there is any way the Commisos are Buffalo members.

Antonio Fiorda is pictured below with the cane he had been using per the two major Toronto dailies. (Peter Edwards wrote that “Fiorda had once weight trained on a daily basis but his body had started to fail him and he used a cane to walk over the past few years.”). The photo, dated October 4, 2018, is from Fiorda’s Facebook timeline.

I’ve traced Fiorda’s ancestry to Molise, based on his father Ennio’s obituary and that of an uncle in Vancouver, Antonio Fiorante (brother to Fiorda’s mother, Ines.) Specifically, both Fiorda’s parents descend from Civitanova del Sannio in Isernia.

If Adrian Humphreys’s source is correct about Fiorda having been a made guy, into which secret society was Fiorda made? We can have a discussion here about whether non-Calabrians outside of Italy can be ‘ndranghetisti; I don’t think they can. Could Fiorda have been made into the Buffalo Family?

Brad Hunter and Sam Pazzano originally wrote that Fiorda was a mob enforcer for a Frank Viola — see the thread that poster Ed created about the Fiorda murder — then changed the name to Joe Violi. (Sorry, but I’m appropriately suspicious.) If Domenico Violi himself allegedly was made only in January 2015, when, how, and why did a made guy like Fiorda, who might have struggled to walk the last few years of his life, start providing services to a non-made Joe Violi? to an allegedly made Joe Violi between, let’s say, at some point in 2015 (could be later or not at all) and November 2017, when Domenico and others got pinched?

I’ll write more tomorrow.

Funny, I could have sworn I read Viola too, then it was Joe Violi.... interesting....

This Fiorda was described as a biker type..... so I dunno...

Did Buffalo have any mobster/ biker friendly types on thier ranks?

[CabriniGreen]

Where did Humphreys say he was made? All I've seen is " enforcer", and linked to the Commissos.....

[CabriniGreen]

Also, I thought Rafaelle Valente was ndrangheta, but from somewhere in Naples.....

[NickleCity]

On one hand, you have a man who is the boss of a defunct family, but is treated with the respect of a boss by other crime families nonetheless. Note that this man, William D'Elia, was the boss when the family was still functioning, and it was simply through general attrition that he outlived the rest of the crime family.

Not sure about that. D'Elia took over as Boss in the early 1990s and by the time he was dealing with Natale in the mid-90s he was the last active member. So how functional were they really when he took over?


Don't know about racketeering/OC activity either. There hasn't been an LCN member busted in Buffalo since 2002. Disregarding some of the hype and speculation in this thread, there really haven't been any LCN related cases out of Buffalo in 10 years. We also have direct statements from the Feds and other LE in 2017 and 2019 saying it is gone.


Pogo

I must have missed something. Which LE or Federal agency stated the Buffalo crime family was gone in 2019?

I remember the FBI making no comment to Phil Fairbanks and his Dec. 2018 and April 2019 articles.

In the current piece about Bongiavonni Fairbanks titled his article “Former DEA agent accused of taking bribes form the mob.” Additionally, he writes that the when the US attorney was asked if Bongiovanni’s arrest was related to “any other recent federal drug cases in Buffalo Kennedy stated: “I'm not going to comment on what is connected and what isn't connected.”

The closest thing I can find is Fairbanks statement that “Prosecutors were coy about connecting him [Bongiovanni] directly to the Buffalo mafia, which most law enforcement say is largely nonexistent now.” (I am sure that the second half of that statement is related to what the FBI told Herbeck in his March 2017–unless I missed something this year.)

The only other item that suggested the Buffalo mob is gone was the Robert H. Jackson continuing legal education program in may where Coppola’s was on a panel with Tony Bruce and Salvatore Martoche who I believe have all been retired for a while.

If I missed something, please point me to it.

[CabriniGreen]

Re: Fiorda

The issue of imprecise language continues to be a major hurdle in mafia coverage of any kind, including the US but definitely in Canada:

- A "soldier" or "made man" is often a lieutenant or "manager", with a crew and sphere of influence of his own that he represents and supervises. The word "soldier" gives the impression of a hands-on enforcer type and some soldiers do continue to operate more that way, but a soldier is more often a lieutenant when you look at their MO. The problem is that when the word lieutenant is used by LE or journalists, it is usually interpreted as an equivalent to the mafia rank of capodecina, which is more like a supervisor of lieutenants, and as a result we end up with Montreal "fan" charts where every suspected made man is listed as a capodecina under a traditional boss/underboss/consig hierarchy that is essentially fan fiction.

- Even the term "enforcer" isn't so easy to define. I was looking through old FBN files the other day where various NYC members are described as "enforcers" and it's clear that these men were not beating people up and grabbing neckties themselves, but were "in charge" of enforcement. Vincent Gigante is even said to have had this role in the years leading up to becoming boss. A great example is Joe Ciancaglini of the Philadelphia family, a made member described in an investigation as an "enforcer" for the family, but the investigation showed that Ciancaglini accompanied two associates to intimidate a victim and Ciancaglini did nothing but stand there silently while his associates did all of the "enforcing".

Back to Fiorda... in this way, he could be a made man, an enforcer, and physically deteriorating and still be all of these things if the descriptions are true. He may have continued to use his reputation and status to supervise enforcement of mafia activities.

The question is, who or what is Humphrey's source behind Fiorda being a made guy?

- The only consistent way to identify made members of a mafia family in any country where these groups operate is through member informants and taped recordings of made members discussing membership. There are well-connected associate informants who are trusted enough to be told by a made member about the inner workings of the so-called "secret society", but anyone familiar with CI reports will tell you that the ability of your typical associate informant vs. member informant is like night and day when it comes to accurately identifying made members and affiliation.

- It's also clear that identifying the true ranks and affiliations of members simply by observing their social/criminal/business relationships is hit-and-miss at best. Kinship ties tend to be more accurate than anything else, but even then we have members who marry into blood families that formally belong to different mafia groups and we also have relatives who are made into different groups for their own independent reasons. Without a high-placed informant or bug, it's just too hard to confirm these kinds of details most of the time.

- The mafia is a strange phenomenon because you can have two guys who do business together their entire lives, are seen together daily, and are connected in every visible way, yet they belong to different groups and this distinction is recognized and honored by everyone who is a member of those groups.

Does Canadian LE have any made members currently informing? Do they have any bugs that can give an inside look at the ranks and affiliations of the Canadian mob groups?

- Paolo Violi was recorded in the 1970s giving us a rare inside look at the Montreal Bonanno crew and its relationships, both to its NYC counterparts and the Sicilian mafia. In the 2000s Project Colisee produced another productive bug; aside from providing extensive info on the crew's criminal activities I wonder how much info it provided on the organization that hasn't been made public.

- Recently we had the Ontario-based underboss of the Buffalo family recorded discussing some of these matters with a Bonanno soldier, which has given us the clearest look to date at some of the affiliations in Ontario, though there are still too many questions. Prior to that case, we were operating from vague reports and articles, not even sure where Violi himself belonged. This is what tends to happen in the US as well until an indictment comes down and clears the air.

- We were only exposed to select snippets of the tapes CI Morena made and the information he collected. He very well could have provided more information on "who is what" in Canada that has not been made public. We can only hope that more of Morena's undercover work and debriefings eventually come to light.

I hope Canadian LE does have member sources or bugs in place in Canada because that increases the likelihood of us figuring out the basics. Without those types of sources, though, I don't have confidence in the conclusions that are made.

You never gave your take on Renauds article.....


What do you mean by " fan fiction" charts, exactly?

Where would you put an outfit like the Agostino- Albanese, who operate in Montreal, but pay a Hamilton clan taxes?

What do you think of the up and comers, like D'adamo?

[CabriniGreen]

Never mind, I read that article.....

[NickleCity]

Did Buffalo have any mobster/ biker friendly types on thier ranks?

Anti pointed us to an 1998 article that suggest after the Papalia hit in ‘97, the Todaro family put into place a “crime lord” that had a strong relationship with outlaw Bikers. Whereas, I believe, Pops didn’t want to work with them.

[Pogo The Clown]

I must have missed something. Which LE or Federal agency stated the Buffalo crime family was gone in 2019?

I remember the FBI making no comment to Phil Fairbanks and his Dec. 2018 and April 2019 articles.

In the current piece about Bongiavonni Fairbanks titled his article “Former DEA agent accused of taking bribes form the mob.” Additionally, he writes that the when the US attorney was asked if Bongiovanni’s arrest was related to “any other recent federal drug cases in Buffalo Kennedy stated: “I'm not going to comment on what is connected and what isn't connected.”

The closest thing I can find is Fairbanks statement that “Prosecutors were coy about connecting him [Bongiovanni] directly to the Buffalo mafia, which most law enforcement say is largely nonexistent now.” (I am sure that the second half of that statement is related to what the FBI told Herbeck in his March 2017–unless I missed something this year.)

The only other item that suggested the Buffalo mob is gone was the Robert H. Jackson continuing legal education program in may where Coppola’s was on a panel with Tony Bruce and Salvatore Martoche who I believe have all been retired for a while.

If I missed something, please point me to it.

Yeah I was referring to the panel discussion with the 2 former federal prosecutors posted earlier in this thread.


Pogo

[NickleCity]

Link to video of WKBW newscast. It appears their I-team had broke the story.
https://youtu.be/TSN3MZcx1GA

[TommyGambino]

Buffalo are the true power behind New York