Andrea Scoppa Whacked in Montreal

[stubbs]

I dont wanna argue, but " only the Bonnanos could have...." , this I just cant get with... it's a little tiresome...

Having to explain myself to you again after I already did is tirring so this will be the last time. Only the Bonannos could've sanctioned these murders because these were confirmed Bonanno members, that's just how it works. It really is no coincidence that this happened after Montagna arrived in the city.

Technically if Montagna was acting boss of the Bonannos, wouldn’t he have been able to sanction the murders himself without anyones approval back in NY? Like if he orders the Rizzutos to be hit, would that be considered “sanctioned by the Bonannos” due to his rank? I guess it depends on his rank after being deported, if he still kept his stripes or was no longer acting and just a capo.

The other half of the discussion also has interested me: If Montagna was doing all of this with the backing of other Bonanno leaders in NY, then who were the others backing him up? Did he have backing of the Sicilian faction in NY? We’re seeing a split now between the Sicilians like Grimaldi and Cammarano who just got shelved and Badalamenti and Mancuso retaking control over the family. Did either of these factions support Montagna?

My guess is once he got deported to Montreal he sensed the power vacuum led by Vito being in jail and that Nick Jr didn’t have the respect of the heavy hitters in the streets like Desjardins. So Montagna decided to seize the moment, sending word back to NY what he was doing and NY was probably like, “Sure, sounds great”, letting him do his thing but not able to provide much support. I think NY was took weak and too unorganized post Massino flipping to have their support mean a whole lot during this time period.

And I think Sal was too inexperienced in high-level mob diplomacy to pull it off and keep all of the factions together. He was able to be aggressive enough and bold enough to get people clipped, but keeping everyone in line after taking control requires a whole different skillset.

[CabriniGreen]

@Stubbs

Jesus christ , common sense lives.... Nice Post...
The guy was boss, there really no good reason he didnt have backup from NY, if they were actively plotting this takeover.....

Something that just occured to me.... I think I know why they describe it as a Sicilian vs Calabrian conflict still... bear with me and correct me if I get the timeline fucked up....


These hits by the Scoppas, were they at around the SAME time that the Violis were meeting in restaurants with the Cotronis? Meeting with Arcadi, and telling people, what was it, I know Lupara will ding me, he already corrected me on this...

" Everyone gets along", whatever the fuck they said I forget the exact quote. But were the Calabrian Viis, and Cotronis, privy to the intrigues of the Scoppas? Did they expect them to take over, like imminently?

[Lupara]

Technically if Montagna was acting boss of the Bonannos, wouldn’t he have been able to sanction the murders himself without anyones approval back in NY? Like if he orders the Rizzutos to be hit, would that be considered “sanctioned by the Bonannos” due to his rank? I guess it depends on his rank after being deported, if he still kept his stripes or was no longer acting and just a capo.

Good question which is why I intentionally said Montagna and the Bonannos. I think it doesn't really matter much what his title was once he was deported, he represented them. I do believe the sanction ultimately came out of New York. Vito Rizzuto himself thought so too btw. And that New York hostage that was with Rizzuto's guys to ensure his safety when he landed is already sufficient prove.

My guess is once he got deported to Montreal he sensed the power vacuum led by Vito being in jail and that Nick Jr didn’t have the respect of the heavy hitters in the streets like Desjardins. So Montagna decided to seize the moment, sending word back to NY what he was doing and NY was probably like, “Sure, sounds great”, letting him do his thing but not able to provide much support. I think NY was took weak and too unorganized post Massino flipping to have their support mean a whole lot during this time period.

And I think Sal was too inexperienced in high-level mob diplomacy to pull it off and keep all of the factions together. He was able to be aggressive enough and bold enough to get people clipped, but keeping everyone in line after taking control requires a whole different skillset.

Agreed. He was in a position to kill the Rizzutos but not to lead the Mafia over there. But I think he may have sensed that himself which is why he wanted Di Maulo to do it. Montagna initially wanted to settle in Toronto. This guy really wasn't as dumb as Edwards and Nicaso described him in their otherwise excellent book.

[CabriniGreen]

A more simple explanation of the clan aspect..... provided by Johhny Sack.....



"I see a lot people start fuckin around, power vaccuum, nobody sure WHO to pay, so NO ONE gets paid"...

Or more accurately, no one HAD to kick up anymore. More money in thier pockets, no actual incentive TO go back to the old setup, where they had to kick up.

The underworld evolved. A lot of these guys have decent connections to Mexico and South America, they dont need the Italians as much.

I also think an analysis of Sinaloa coming to Canada, and how it affects the criminal landscape, must at some point be explored...

[CabriniGreen]

I think Renaud was accurate, it will take either a charismatic leader, or a common enemy to pull the factions back together. Clearly brute force and or strength isnt enough.