Andrea Scoppa Whacked in Montreal

[Lupara]

Also, in a another new article, it confirms Scoppa was beefing over drug territory with the Hells Angel's, and that Rizzuto was too busy to solve it. This must have been when Wooley and the others were caught discussing Scoppa, and Wooley said he deserved a " bullet in the chest"...

This might have been right around the time the Scoppas started planning the murders....

You really have to learn how to read properly. Renaud stated Rizzuto (referring to Vito not his son) was too busy settling a beef between Scoppa and a biker around 2003 and then send his two main enforcers, Giordano and Del Balso, to settle the matter. This was 15 years before this conflict. By creating this confusion you make debating with you tiresome and thereby pointless. I say this in good faith.

It's got to clear at this point, you need to have extensive contacts, resources, and diplomacy skills if you want to rule in Montreal. You cant kill 3, 4 guys like in say NY, and take over. It doesnt work like that up there.

That's what each usurper since Montagna tried and failed including Rizzuto's own successors. It's a mess up there.

@Lupara

You guys are starting to come around. It makes it easier to talk about this stuff. No one says the Bonnanos arnt in Canada, it just cant be assumed in 2019 they still are absolute rulers. To me it's like believing Little Italy is still a mafia stronghold or something.

If you've paid attention to my posts of these last several years you'd know I've been questioning how much influence the Bonannos still have in Montreal since Vito came back in 2012. I've been speculating that Vito's group may have been given recognition as an an indepedent group but also that the Bonannos may still be reorganizing their crew. I have never said that they still have total control but it can't be ruled out either simply because we don't know these facts. Fact is however that the Bonannos are still there but it remains to be seen in what capacity....

[CabriniGreen]

Different time period, same beef, drug territory. You are right though, I mixed up the 2....

I just get tired of people trying to wrap all these crime groups under the Bonnano umbrella because it's easy and neat, and fits into a chart easier.

Same with the Violis. I mean,.. you just said you didnt even think there WERE any clans. And that it might be ONE organization, I assumed you were still on the Bonnano thing... if not then okay....

[CabriniGreen]

Also, in a another new article, it confirms Scoppa was beefing over drug territory with the Hells Angel's, and that Rizzuto was too busy to solve it. This must have been when Wooley and the others were caught discussing Scoppa, and Wooley said he deserved a " bullet in the chest"...

This might have been right around the time the Scoppas started planning the murders....

You really have to learn how to read properly. Renaud stated Rizzuto (referring to Vito not his son) was too busy settling a beef between Scoppa and a biker around 2003 and then send his two main enforcers, Giordano and Del Balso, to settle the matter. This was 15 years before this conflict. By creating this confusion you make debating with you tiresome and thereby pointless. I say this in good faith.
there.

You confused my post on the Arcuris and Gallos, I confused this one. Were even, but you really should chill on the Wiseguy impressions.... insulting people needlessly isnt a good way to build dialogue either... and I can actually admit when I'm wrong... unlike some people..

[Lupara]

Different time period, same beef, drug territory. You are right though, I mixed up the 2....

I just get tired of people trying to wrap all these crime groups under the Bonnano umbrella because it's easy and neat, and fits into a chart easier.

Same with the Violis. I mean,.. you just said you didnt even think there WERE any clans. And that it might be ONE organization, I assumed you were still on the Bonnano thing... if not then okay....

It is documted by LE the Violis and Luppinos are Buffalo members, which means that they are a crew not a clan, there's a difference.

Historically Montreal has been under the Bonannos because the rulers of the Montreal Mafia were Bonanno members. The mob's protocol is usually taken very serious by its members and poltics are required, ultimately coming down to recognition, for a subordinate group to become independent. If they break away without consent other Mafia groups will not recognise them as long as everyone is working together and there are mutual interests. Nobody want a status quo disturbed which disrupts business and bring instability so the break-away group will be considered outcasts. This is why Montagna was entitled to reclaim control within their group. Times may have changed by now but it's all wild speculation so I'm inclined to view it through a traditional scope.

[Lupara]

Also, in a another new article, it confirms Scoppa was beefing over drug territory with the Hells Angel's, and that Rizzuto was too busy to solve it. This must have been when Wooley and the others were caught discussing Scoppa, and Wooley said he deserved a " bullet in the chest"...

This might have been right around the time the Scoppas started planning the murders....

You really have to learn how to read properly. Renaud stated Rizzuto (referring to Vito not his son) was too busy settling a beef between Scoppa and a biker around 2003 and then send his two main enforcers, Giordano and Del Balso, to settle the matter. This was 15 years before this conflict. By creating this confusion you make debating with you tiresome and thereby pointless. I say this in good faith.
there.

You confused my post on the Arcuris and Gallos, I confused this one. Were even, but you really should chill on the Wiseguy impressions.... insulting people needlessly isnt a good way to build dialogue either... and I can actually admit when I'm wrong... unlike some people..

No I didn't but I'm good anyway. But yeah, I insulted you a little bit. Just a little bit.

[Moscone65]

I think the rizzutos were so serious during the early 2000’s that regardless if they were declared official or not in New York, they were an official family by anyone’s standards. They were probably recognized by people back in Italy anyways, and other groups like the musitanos, ect.

[CabriniGreen]

I think the rizzutos were so serious during the early 2000’s that regardless if they were declared official or not in New York, they were an official family by anyone’s standards. They were probably recognized by people back in Italy anyways, and other groups like the musitanos, ect.

I seriously challenge the notion that they wernt recognized. But I dont wanna fall down that rabbit hole, it's been debated endlessly. I've said before it's a complicated question of whether it's the Bonnano Montreal crew, or the Canadian branch of the Caruana- Cuntrera- Rizzuto clan.

@Lupara
Fair enough, I guess. But you were just saying things like the Sixth family myth continues, or something like that.

On the Violis.....

Well that's one of the sticking points, right? That the Violis are members of a defunct family. So even as they are LCN, what does it mean (if the family is defunct and the boss legit and retired?) They have a " Right" to all of Toronto, and extended Ontario? We dont believe that, right? Like it's still the 40s and Chicago just OWNs L.A., like just because? Or New Orleans OWNING Texas? Tampa the Carribean?

The Scoppas on the surface look like the Violis to me, but more local. The Violis through familial ties ( and thier own criminal exploits have many more connections.

It's okay if you wanna call it a crew over a clan. But then like others say, if a crew, wheres the rest of the family? And I honestly believe they have BEEN operating like a clan, they recently became LCN. Cece Luppino could been made and he might not even BE a criminal. That was ONLY because he was a Luppino. That's how CLANS work.....

[Lupara]

I think the rizzutos were so serious during the early 2000’s that regardless if they were declared official or not in New York, they were an official family by anyone’s standards. They were probably recognized by people back in Italy anyways, and other groups like the musitanos, ect.

If that was truly the case then Montagna would've been in no position to mingle in their affairs. He would've probably been warned not to try anything and would have to ask for their permission to be there in the first place otherwise he could've been shot on sight. In the 70s mafiosi from Sicily needed to go through the same protocol. Instead Montagna was introduced to other members, was able to muster support in the city by various individuals and able to be received by people in Ontario and gain their support too. He was able to do this because the Rizzutos were part of his family and he had the right to bring them back into the fold. Nothing whatsoever could've happened had they been an 'official' family by anyone's standards.

I do agree, this has been debated endlessly so I'll leave at this. [emoji6]

[Moscone65]

Good points, however the rizzutos didn’t seem to be subservient to the bonnanos whatsoever at that point. The guys in New York think they can do whatever they wanted and look what happened

[Lupara]

Good points, however the rizzutos didn’t seem to be subservient to the bonnanos whatsoever at that point. The guys in New York think they can do whatever they wanted and look what happened

Paolo Renda lupara bianco'd, Agostino Cuntrera shotgunned to death and Nicolo Rizzuto Sr. sniped through his kitchen window.

Due to freak circumstances Rizzuto was able to make a comeback.

[CabriniGreen]

Good points, however the rizzutos didn’t seem to be subservient to the bonnanos whatsoever at that point. The guys in New York think they can do whatever they wanted and look what happened

Paolo Renda lupara bianco'd, Agostino Cuntrera shotgunned to death and Nicolo Rizzuto Sr. sniped through his kitchen window.

Due to freak circumstances Rizzuto was able to make a comeback.

I dont think that was Montagnas personal crew that did that work, my opinion.

It wasnt freak circumstances, Montagna made a couple very specific mistakes that pretty much guaranteed he would fail.

The Rizzutos were reeling from arrest, and in disarray, but still financially powerful with many contacts, THATS what Montagna had to kill off.

In Studying the Rizzutos, the main family I look at is the Inzerillos, I see them as linked.....

[Lupara]

Good points, however the rizzutos didn’t seem to be subservient to the bonnanos whatsoever at that point. The guys in New York think they can do whatever they wanted and look what happened

Paolo Renda lupara bianco'd, Agostino Cuntrera shotgunned to death and Nicolo Rizzuto Sr. sniped through his kitchen window.

Due to freak circumstances Rizzuto was able to make a comeback.

I dont think that was Montagnas personal crew that did that work, my opinion.

It wasnt freak circumstances, Montagna made a couple very specific mistakes that pretty much guaranteed he would fail.

The Rizzutos were reeling from arrest, and in disarray, but still financially powerful with many contacts, THATS what Montagna had to kill off.

In Studying the Rizzutos, the main family I look at is the Inzerillos, I see them as linked.....

I don't have an opinion on who actually carried out the heavy work because I don't know, but only Montagna and the Bonannos could've sanctioned these murders.

The freak circumstance was the amateuristic murder of Montagna which made it easy for the cops, and in turn everyone else, to find out who was behind it, effectively ending the coup and creating a power vacuum. This humiliating situation gave Rizzuto a lucky break because people recognised he was the only one capable to restore order among the factions.

I do agree he made mistakes. He was selfish and lacked diplomacy skills. But he was far from a dummy. Initially he didn't even want to take over himself but just install a new regime, and he offered the position to Joe Di Maulo, which was a smart move. If Di Maulo had taken the spot, with the backing of New York and Toronto, it would've been the end of the Rizzuto regime.

[CabriniGreen]

Good points, however the rizzutos didn’t seem to be subservient to the bonnanos whatsoever at that point. The guys in New York think they can do whatever they wanted and look what happened

Paolo Renda lupara bianco'd, Agostino Cuntrera shotgunned to death and Nicolo Rizzuto Sr. sniped through his kitchen window.

Due to freak circumstances Rizzuto was able to make a comeback.

I dont think that was Montagnas personal crew that did that work, my opinion.

It wasnt freak circumstances, Montagna made a couple very specific mistakes that pretty much guaranteed he would fail.

The Rizzutos were reeling from arrest, and in disarray, but still financially powerful with many contacts, THATS what Montagna had to kill off.

In Studying the Rizzutos, the main family I look at is the Inzerillos, I see them as linked.....

I don't have an opinion on who actually carried out the heavy work because I don't know, but only Montagna and the Bonannos could've sanctioned these murders.

The freak circumstance was the amateuristic murder of Montagna which made it easy for the cops, and in turn everyone else, to find out who was behind it, effectively ending the coup and creating a power vacuum. This humiliating situation gave Rizzuto a lucky break because people recognised he was the only one capable to restore order among the factions.

I do agree he made mistakes. He was selfish and lacked diplomacy skills. But he was far from a dummy. Initially he didn't even want to take over himself but just install a new regime, and he offered the position to Joe Di Maulo, which was a smart move. If Di Maulo had taken the spot, with the backing of New York and Toronto, it would've been the end of the Rizzuto regime.

I dont wanna argue, but " only the Bonnanos could have...." , this I just cant get with... it's a little tiresome...

The CONSTRUCTION guy, hired a gang leader to hit Vitos son. This is like a concrete club contractor, hiring Bushawn from the bloods to hit say, Crea or Gigantes kid. This would never happen in NY, but in Canada? lol...

You yourself were surprised the Scoppas tried to push for the top. I dont think they got sanction from NY, do you?


Montagnas faction was a French guy, unmade young gangsters like the Violi brothers, and Miriarchi. Plus the old Cotroni- Bonnano regime.

It's not that he was stupid, just arrogant. My understanding is he couldnt speak french, I mean how was he supposed to deal with the Bikers? He would ALWAYS need someone else to pull all the factions together. He was ALWAYS gonna have to share power, the moment he started playing g the big boss he was doomed.

Actually, I think all Vitos problems stemmed from him trying to be the big boss of Canada, moving into Ontario when he already had all of Montreal, he was a little greedy too.....

[Lupara]

I dont wanna argue, but " only the Bonnanos could have...." , this I just cant get with... it's a little tiresome...

Having to explain myself to you again after I already did is tirring so this will be the last time. Only the Bonannos could've sanctioned these murders because these were confirmed Bonanno members, that's just how it works. It really is no coincidence that this happened after Montagna arrived in the city.

[CabriniGreen]

lol, I really dont think the " Bonnanos" really knew anything about it, but whatever...

And also, ametuerish? This is the same murder where they cloned cell phones and shit right? No, it went sideways cause Montagna ran through a fuckin window, who plans for that?

I mean, if we believe Renaud, the Rizzutos did an amateur hour job on Dejardins, then got an inside guy to blame Montagna. I dont know if that's stupid or brilliant, or both at the same time......