Mob Talk Sitdown 33

Discuss all mafia families in the U.S., Canada, Italy, and everywhere else in the world.

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B.
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

Post by B. »

dack2001 wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:33 am And there is a precedent for making guys at weddings. I think Blackie Napoli and Patty Specs both got made by Bruno at a wedding in Newark in the early 60's.
The induction you're thinking of happened in Trenton, where Angelo Bruno inducted four members at a wedding in 1962. The inductees were most likely Carl Ippolito, Michael Cammarota, Michael Tramantana, and "Blackie" Napoli, as Genovese captain Ray DeCarlo was taped saying that Bruno inducted those four members when the books were closed. The books were closed for Philly in 1962 (though the books weren't closed for the large induction a year or two earlier where Narducci and Monte were made), but Bruno apparently pleaded ignorance and New York let the inductions stand and the books would be opened for Philly within a couple of years anyway. Bruno himself was taped saying that he inducted four men at that wedding, so the timeline and number of names DeCarlo mentioned both match up.

Side note. but the above is interesting when you consider the Fresolone induction decades later, as there was controversy over them not circulating the names of the inductees to NY for approval. Bruno clearly didn't circulate names to NY for the 1962 induction and it included at least one Newark member, and the controversy seems to have been based on the books being closed and not necessarily the names not being circulated. This could indicate that it wasn't necessarily required for Philadelphia to get names approved in Newark and only became controversial later.

Never seen confirmation on Martirano's induction; Fresolone said early 1960s, I believe, but not sure if he was directly told that or assumed. It would make sense given the Simone crew was rapidly expanded during that period but just haven't seen anything concrete. It's possible too that Martirano was known by another nickname by CIs back then, as there are some unidentified members, including some in Jersey, known only by obscure nicknames and it's not uncommon for guys to have been known by different nicknames than the ones mentioned more famously by later sources, especially earlier on.

As far as I Know except for the Stanfa era the Philly family has always done fully traditional ceremonies, so I would guess that includes the Trenton wedding induction and these new ones. It has never been much of a mystery who these guys are within the community they're in, so if they all dip off into a private room I don't think many people would ask questions, though funny to think of them stealing some bridezilla's glory by inducting new members at a wedding... all of these guys congratulating some newly made gangster instead of the bride.

Weddings and funerals have been used for formal family meetings in a number of organizations going back to the early days of the US mafia. The St. Louis and DeCavalcante families used member-owned funeral parlors for formal meetings during funerals, for example. Wouldn't be surprised to hear that wedding/funeral inductions have happened in other organizations, too.

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The bit about Pellulo, Persiano, and Piccolo being inducted by the Lucchese family fits with some vague info that came out at the time of the Piccolo indictment indicating the latter two had been made with the Luccheses and transferred. If the ceremony happened around ten years ago, this sheds new light on the Philly/Gambino sitdown as they weren't just registering a complaint against Scarfo Jr. for making a move against Philly and stealing associates, but for having Philly associates made into the Lucchese family.

Pellulo is the nephew of influential old line Philly member Frank Nicoletti and Pellulo's older brothers were close to Scarfo and Leonetti through the 1980s, at some point going on record with Leonetti. Piccolo's history with Philly speaks for itself. They would have technically belonged to the Philadelphia family if they weren't released, though what muddies this up is that the Lucchese family is said to have considered Scarfo the official boss into the 2010s (no doubt Amuso/Scarfo's jailhouse friendship was a factor) which is why they condoned it.

Would be curious who officiated or otherwise approved the ceremony within the Lucchese family if those three were inducted.
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

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I agree with you. I think the three were inducted into the Lucchese family after Scarfo Sr. "approved" a transfer from Philly to the Lukes. Just like he "approved" the same with Jr. I'd bet Persiano and Piccolo both got transferred as a way to settle the dispute from Philly. I just don't see Joey or Joe Ligambi approving Persiano getting made, which leads me to more strongly believe it was the Lukes who made them and they got transferred later, maybe around the same time they broke Scarfo Jr. and he headed to Texas.

As far as the ceremony goes, I'll quibble only on the names. I think Pappy was one, maybe Blackie and Freddie Salerno but I don't think the two Mikes were made then. Either way, thats the history and I think its relevant. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the picture at Staino's wedding was only made guys, which is why the feds seized it and Joe talked to the caterer about not turning it over. He wouldn't have cared if it was just all friends, those guys are photographed all day every day. You think there weren't 50 other guys at Staino's wedding who could be considered associates?
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

Post by chin_gigante »

I was looking through my copy of The Last Gangster thinking about what Anastasia said about a potential making ceremony at a baptism or christening in the late 90s and I think there's a good chance it was this, which took place in 1998 after the Anthony Turra murder:
Natale said he was told the shooter was a young mob associate, Michael "Mikey Penknife" Virgilio. When he met Virgilio, Natale said he hugged and kissed the young wiseguy, congratulating him for a job well done [...] Four days after the murder, Skinny Joey and most of the mob took part in yet another public celebration. On March 28, at a restaurant/ catering hall called Colleen's, Merlino and Deborah threw a party to commemorate the baptism of their second daughter. Not quite as lavish as the celebration at the Ben Franklin House, the affair was attended by about two hundred and fifty close friends and associates. Outside, police and FBI surveillance cameras got it all.
The referenced celebration at Benjamin Franklin House was for the baptism of Merlino's first child in 1996, which is also the event Previte famously described with, 'Sometimes a party is just a party.'

Seems to me like the 1998 baptism could have been the induction ceremony. Anastasia doesn't say anything else about it but it'd make sense if Virgilio got made then.
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

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Marty is Joey’s oldest daughters Godfather.
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

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eboli wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:14 am A bit off topic. I've made the mistake to listen to Jeff Lowman's latest Q&A to see if he has any hot takes on the information from Mob Talk 33, since he was the first to break the news around Narducci's latest indictment. He doesn't say anything outside his usual rants and name calling.

What caught my attention is near the end of his video he answers questions, as the mafia expert that he is, and he discussed the "Grossio Crime Family" a.k.a. the "Atlanta Crime Family" with their two factions and 50 made members. :lol:
Here's the link to the Fictional Grossio family in Atlanta, If this fucken idiot thinks this is real and was really discussing this BS ....
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

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eboli
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

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Bklyn21 wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:21 pm Here's the link to the Fictional Grossio family in Atlanta, If this fucken idiot thinks this is real and was really discussing this BS ....
SMFH , Mental issues , Go get some help 🤔🤡😵🤫🤫
I think somebody was fucking with him and he swallowed the bait hard, discussing made up stuff from the wiki link you posted.
https://youtu.be/QYq0PNFRrMI?t=3685
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chin_gigante
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

Post by chin_gigante »

Can't believe he fell for that. That's beyond parody
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

Post by Bklyn21 »

eboli wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:25 am
Bklyn21 wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:21 pm Here's the link to the Fictional Grossio family in Atlanta, If this fucken idiot thinks this is real and was really discussing this BS ....
SMFH , Mental issues , Go get some help 🤔🤡😵🤫🤫
I think somebody was fucking with him and he swallowed the bait hard, discussing made up stuff from the wiki link you posted.
https://youtu.be/QYq0PNFRrMI?t=3685
Yea, I would hope so !? Then to pass it off SMH lmao.....That was a first, An Atlanta Georgia crime family, Controlled by Official boss Mr.Grossio who has up to 50 active soldiers running shit
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

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dack2001 wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:51 am I agree with you. I think the three were inducted into the Lucchese family after Scarfo Sr. "approved" a transfer from Philly to the Lukes. Just like he "approved" the same with Jr. I'd bet Persiano and Piccolo both got transferred as a way to settle the dispute from Philly. I just don't see Joey or Joe Ligambi approving Persiano getting made, which leads me to more strongly believe it was the Lukes who made them and they got transferred later, maybe around the same time they broke Scarfo Jr. and he headed to Texas.

As far as the ceremony goes, I'll quibble only on the names. I think Pappy was one, maybe Blackie and Freddie Salerno but I don't think the two Mikes were made then. Either way, thats the history and I think its relevant. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the picture at Staino's wedding was only made guys, which is why the feds seized it and Joe talked to the caterer about not turning it over. He wouldn't have cared if it was just all friends, those guys are photographed all day every day. You think there weren't 50 other guys at Staino's wedding who could be considered associates?
There was a guy on the Real Deal who barely posted and lived, I believe, in South Jersey (not the RD member AtlanticCity) who made a post sometime around 2008-2009 saying that "Sammy" Piccolo had been made and was actively operating in South Jersey, both of which have since been substantiated and fits the general timeline of induction mentioned in this Mob Talk. At the time I was familiar with Piccolo only because of his relation to the other Piccolos, the cocaine case, and Grande flipping on him, so it stood out to me as strange and I was skeptical given it was anonymous internet "street talk". The thing is, I'm pretty sure he implied Piccolo had been made with Philly but in retrospect it is still interesting.

I can't remember the RD member's screen name, but like I said he barely posted (maybe 20 posts total) and he mentioned some obscure names in other posts that I wish I could remember. I don't remember anything about Persiano and Pellulo, but one of the names he mentioned was a "Big John" or "Fat John" (going off memory) and he gave a surname I can't recall; at the time I was able to find a minor criminal case the guy had been busted in that had peripheral ties to the Lucchese family. Again, my memory is hazy about everything except what he said about Piccolo, as that was the only name I knew, but I swear he said this John had been made or otherwise had stature as well. Wish I had saved the name of this "John", as he was definitely a real person involved to some degree in crime. Whether his name is a potential connection to this mysterious fourth member inducted with the three other Scarfo associates is too much of a guess to comment on.

I believe this RD member was also the same guy who mentioned that Dom Grande was an up and coming associate in the family before that was well-known. Hard to imagine given all the social media pictures people post of Grande and how much he is discussed these days, but pre-2010s Grande was never discussed by anyone online, even after the 2008 Borgata bust, except for the rare "oh, that's Wayne's son?" comment.

--

Speaking of Grande and baptisms, in one of the Anastasia books (maybe Real Deal or Mobfather) it talks about a baptism party held for Wayne Grande's son (Dominic, obviously) that was attended by the majority of the Philly family. Nobody was secretly inducted or anything, but funny how things come full circle. Would be curious who Dominic's baptismal godfather was.

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Don't need to go into it too much here if you don't want, but re: 1962 wedding ceremony:

- As far as I know Salerno hasn't been confirmed as a member, only suspected. Curious if you've seen anything on his membership, though I lean toward him having membership.

- You are def right on Tramantana. He was inducted in the earlier 1960s ceremony with Monte, Narducci, Romeo, and others. Most of these Trenton guys were made between the late 1950s and early 1960s, I believe, after John Simone became captain. Cammarota died in 1963 and given his longstanding close relationship to Bruno and Simone (Bruno served as pallbearer), I think you're right that he may have been made before 1962. DeCarlo may have been confused on a couple of the names, as the books weren't closed for Philly for the Monte/Narducci/Tramantana ceremony. It would also make sense that Cammarota would have been made around the same time as Tramantana, as they had a long history of association, so Cammarota may have been another one of the unknowns in that big ceremony.

- Looking at earlier notes on this, Ippolito and Napoli were mentioned by another source as being made in 1962 and according to a conversation between Perricone and R.Scafidi, two others made after October 1961 but before July 1964 were the Marconi brothers. Since Bruno was chastised by NY for the 1962 ceremony, it is unlikely they held an additional ceremony before 1965, when the books were opened. The Marconi brothers would bring the count up to 4 members inducted at the 1962 wedding, which matches Bruno's words, so this is a probable scenario.
Last edited by B. on Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

Post by NJShore4Life »

Dom Grande has been around a long time. He rolled with 10th and O crew before he got really tight with Anthony Nicodemo and started rolling more with the mob guys. The rest is history.
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

Post by MichaelGiovanni »

How old was Dom when his father flipped and why didn’t he go with his father? What is the story behind all of that? Who was he raised by?
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

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MichaelGiovanni wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:08 pm How old was Dom when his father flipped and why didn’t he go with his father? What is the story behind all of that? Who was he raised by?
Wayne Grande flipped on his wife's brother Salvatore Piccolo while Grande was serving time after his RICO conviction. He helped arrange a cocaine deal with a couple of other inmates, with Piccolo doing the hands-on work from the outside, but Grande gave him up and Piccolo served a long prison sentence for drugs and illegal gun possession. Grande's family on both sides severed themselves from him as a result, so the family stayed in South Philadelphia around all of the usual suspects. Grande's wife was a younger cousin or niece a couple generations removed of Anthony Piccolo, so there is a mafia pedigree to some degree on her side as well.

In Leonetti's book, he said that Scarfo had already placed a murder contract on the Grande brothers years earlier for getting Sam Piccolo into the drug business (Piccolo is a Scarfo cousin). Piccolo also had issues with drug use back then, which he tried to use in court for leniency after the bust. After his release obviously he fell in orbit with Scarfo Jr.'s crew.

Dominic Grande's aunt is married to one of Steve Mazzone's brothers, which explains why they are together in so many of the photos that people find on social media and post on here. I found some property records some years back that referred to a relation between Grande and Nicodemo as well but I have no idea if it's blood, marriage, a figure of speech, or if it's accurate. I believe Grande was an associate of the Lancelotti crew when he was busted in the Borgata case, which would make sense given the assumption that he has been the acting captain for Lancelotti since then and accompanied him to NYC with Merlino.
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

Post by dack2001 »

I think you mean the Marconi brothers, Funzy and his brother. They were made in their own separate ceremony between 1961-1964.

Salerno is definitely a member, no question, and a legit hitter with Bananas, but still don't believe for a second that Bananas entrusted Salerno to whack Bruno. I believe Salerno got down at the 1962 wedding ceremony He pissed off enough people that Bananas had to specially intercede to get him made.
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Re: Mob Talk Sitdown 33

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dack2001 wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:13 pm I think you mean the Marconi brothers, Funzy and his brother. They were made in their own separate ceremony between 1961-1964.

Salerno is definitely a member, no question, and a legit hitter with Bananas, but still don't believe for a second that Bananas entrusted Salerno to whack Bruno. I believe Salerno got down at the 1962 wedding ceremony He pissed off enough people that Bananas had to specially intercede to get him made.
Do you have more specifics on each of these? Thanks.

And yep, the Marconis.
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