Outfit Rankings

[Moscone65]

Back then how can they confirm who was made and who wasn’t. Sure guys like the boss, but there weren’t that many rats from all the various factions. Just like in New York, a soldier/made guy in melrose park wouldn’t know all the other made guys in Cicero, grand avenue, Chinatown, ect.

[Snakes]

They always had informants, just not cooperating ones.
Th ey could get that information from associates as well, since they knew who their bosses' bosses were and could made reasonable justifications on who was made in that way.

[Villain]

I believe that back in the days, in Chicago the low level members didn't care much about people on their level whether someone was made or not, although the bosses and capos had to remember on who they used to sponsor and later brought into the organization.

I remember one convo between the boss Giancana and one made member from the Chicago Heights faction, who went by the name of Joe Costello. You see, Costello was having problems with one old time gangster Joe Fusco. According to the conversation, Giancana told Costello that Fusco was in the clique, which means that he was a made member, and Costello had no clue about it, while on the other hand Fusco was with the Outfit for more than several decades

[Snakes]

I think he just meant that Fusco was pals with Accardo, etc., meaning that Costello wasn't going to get anywhere with him in any type of dispute.

[Villain]

Well the term "clique" usually means that someone is a member of the top levels of the Mafia

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ana_clique

[Wiseguy]

Even in the 80s they probably only had 45-50 members at their largest.

Yeah, law enforcement reports in 1984 and 1987 had the Outfit at 46 and 51 members, respectively.

Their presence then was mostly through associates I guess correct? Because I’ve seen those early charts with a lot of guys listed....but a small core membership I see. Somewhat unique

Yeah, in terms of total manpower, they are comparable to other small families outside New York but the member-to-associate ratio is a little different.

[Etna]

Even in the 80s they probably only had 45-50 members at their largest.

Yeah, law enforcement reports in 1984 and 1987 had the Outfit at 46 and 51 members, respectively.

Their presence then was mostly through associates I guess correct? Because I’ve seen those early charts with a lot of guys listed....but a small core membership I see. Somewhat unique

Yeah, in terms of total manpower, they are comparable to other small families outside New York but the member-to-associate ratio is a little different.

I guess because of the media hype Chicago has from Capone and their spot on the commission, I always thought they were an equivalent to a NY family - among the smaller 3 at least.

[Snakes]

Even in the 80s they probably only had 45-50 members at their largest.

Yeah, law enforcement reports in 1984 and 1987 had the Outfit at 46 and 51 members, respectively.

Their presence then was mostly through associates I guess correct? Because I’ve seen those early charts with a lot of guys listed....but a small core membership I see. Somewhat unique

Yeah, in terms of total manpower, they are comparable to other small families outside New York but the member-to-associate ratio is a little different.

I guess because of the media hype Chicago has from Capone and their spot on the commission, I always thought they were an equivalent to a NY family - among the smaller 3 at least.

Relatively speaking in terms of power, they were possibly stronger and more influential than the three smallest families at their height but they were never more powerful than either of the Genovese or Gambinos.

[maxiestern11]

Even in the 80s they probably only had 45-50 members at their largest.

Yeah, law enforcement reports in 1984 and 1987 had the Outfit at 46 and 51 members, respectively.

Their presence then was mostly through associates I guess correct? Because I’ve seen those early charts with a lot of guys listed....but a small core membership I see. Somewhat unique

Yeah, in terms of total manpower, they are comparable to other small families outside New York but the member-to-associate ratio is a little different.

I guess because of the media hype Chicago has from Capone and their spot on the commission, I always thought they were an equivalent to a NY family - among the smaller 3 at least.

Agreed

[Etna]

Rankings aside, the way their org charts look, they played the Cosa Nostra them by having made men, which is needed when dealing with other families but in Chicago they made their own structure to do what they wanted and what worked best for them. Especially since guys like Gus Alex were so high up in that organization.

[Antiliar]

Well the term "clique" usually means that someone is a member of the top levels of the Mafia

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ana_clique

I agree that in this context being part of the "clique" meant being a made member of the Outfit.

[Confederate]

Rankings aside, the way their org charts look, they played the Cosa Nostra them by having made men, which is needed when dealing with other families but in Chicago they made their own structure to do what they wanted and what worked best for them. Especially since guys like Gus Alex were so high up in that organization.

Yes I agree. Their core membership of "made guys" was always smaller than expected. However, they had many other Non Italian guys who were full fledged members of the Outfit, but not members of the National LCN, which didn't matter to the rank and file men. Many guys like Murray Humphreys, Gus Alex, Ralph Pierce, Les Kruse, Eddie Vogel, Davey Yaras, Lenny Patrick etc. were powerful men who even had some Italian guys working under them. In addition, the Outfit didn't have to "share" Chicago with any other Family, so man per man they did well. I don't recall reading about vey many "brokesters" who were middle to upper level guys in the Outfit years ago.

[JeremyTheJew]

Even in the 80s they probably only had 45-50 members at their largest.

Yeah, law enforcement reports in 1984 and 1987 had the Outfit at 46 and 51 members, respectively.

Their presence then was mostly through associates I guess correct? Because I’ve seen those early charts with a lot of guys listed....but a small core membership I see. Somewhat unique

Yeah, in terms of total manpower, they are comparable to other small families outside New York but the member-to-associate ratio is a little different.

I guess because of the media hype Chicago has from Capone and their spot on the commission, I always thought they were an equivalent to a NY family - among the smaller 3 at least.

Believe it or not.... 10 years ago the arguments were "whos stronger: chicago or nyc?"

[Villain]

Well the term "clique" usually means that someone is a member of the top levels of the Mafia

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ana_clique

I agree that in this context being part of the "clique" meant being a made member of the Outfit.

Thanks

[SolarSolano]

There was nothing left of that crew after Palermo went away in 1991.

I think the remaining guys from the Heights - like Mike Giorango and Dom Barbaro were absorbed into other crews. The Nuzzo's are still involved in gambling in NW Indiana - they have to be kicking up to someone.