Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

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eboli
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by eboli »

JCB1977 wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm Lennert sent me an email with the obits...the obits match this record. So now, I have two observations. First, the Frank Valenti, Joseph Valenti and Alphonse J. Valenti who were arrested in the 1940’s for a liquor ring were brothers from Rochester and Alphonse A. Valenti who was also arrested was from the Buffalo Niagara area who came to Rochester from Buffalo, most likely a cousin. Frank, Joe and Alphonse were Donato Valenti’s kids? Was Giuseppe Valenti (Frank and Costenze’s father) brother’s with Donato? And what role, if any, did Frank, Joseph and Alphonse A. and Alphonse J. play in the organized crime scene in Western NY?

Secondly, is Giuseppe Sicilian? Are there any other records (Ship manifest, naturalization, WW1, Passport etc) that give a more definitive place of birth?
I couldn't find much on Donato to be honest. Outside the census reports that place his year of birth between 1873 and 1876. In my opinion there might be a possibility he was only temporary in Rochester and moved to Canada or he had a different name. I stumbled upon the name "Donato Valente", but I haven't looked into it yet. If he and Giuseppe are indeed brothers and their kids are cousins that might explain how they managed to establish a power base early on in Rochester.

For Giuseppe I took the time to look through ship manifest lists and found a Giuseppe Valenti who arrived in the USA on June 11th, 1902 on the ship "Sardegna" with Napoli as the port of departure. His age was listed as 24, marital status as single and "Campofelice" as his last place of residence. It's worth of note, if it's the same Giuseppe "Joseph" Valenti, he arrived in the USA just 2 days before his 24th birthday. If his wife's name is Rosalia with a maiden name Inserra, there was a young woman with the same name that arrived on June 23rd, 1905 with the same ship "Sardegna" from Napoli. Her last place of residence in Italy is listed as Roccapalumba. I'm attaching Giuseppe's entry.
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Re: Pasquale (Pat) Musitano shot west of Toronto

Post by antimafia »

antimafia wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:59 pm
antimafia wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:01 pm The mobster next door: How do you sell your home when you live next to Pat Musitano?

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9522 ... musitano-/
It's now Pat Musitano's turn to see whether selling is house is difficult.

Home of Hamilton mobster Pat Musitano hits the market

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9548 ... the-market
Want to live in the home owned by Hamilton mobster Pat Musitano? It's up for sale

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton ... -1.5246480
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by B. »

Ok, we've circled back to something very interesting:

- On the Magaddino transcript with Joe Falcone, the reason they discussed Frank Valenti's transfer from Pittsburgh to Buffalo-Rochester was because Magaddino was initially talking about a problem with someone who Joe Falcone initially confused for the well-known Frank Valenti, which led them to start discussing him (let's call him "Famous" Frank for the sake of clarity).

- Magaddino tells Falcone not to confuse the first man with Famous Frank Valenti. When I first read this, my impression was that the first man was also named Frank Valenti, hence Falcone's confusion, but that didn't make sense at the time. Now it does, as you will see below.

--

- The Donato Valenti I mentioned earlier lived consistently in Rochester after arriving in the US and had a son named Frank, born the same year (or close to it) as Famous Frank. As Eboli mentioned, this Donato's birth year varies in records but I'm fairly certain all of the records refer to the same man, born around the mid-1870s.

- A 1907 immigration record shows that a Donato Valente, born in the same range of years as the above Donato Valenti, was traveling to Rochester, NY as his destination and lists a Giuseppe as his brother. You can see this here, and though something may be written or smudged over the destination, you can see Rochester written underneath: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... 3AJXVW-WJM

- On the above record, I'm having a hard time deciphering Donato's Italian town of residence. It is transcribed as Sambatesa but both the original handwritten records and the online interpretations like this are often riddled with errors and while the word in cursive looks close to that, I can't figure out what town it's actually referring to and can't find any towns, historic or otherwise, that were called Sambatesa. Others on the same manifest from "Sambatesa" were heading to PA, with at least one going to Pittsburgh. Often paesans on the same manifest were relatives or otherwise connected to each other, so this establishes a potential connection between both Rochester and Pittsburgh for Donato "Valente".

- Given that this Donato was going to Rochester and his age is a close match, it's likely he is the same Donato "Valenti" who shows up in other records as a longtime Rochester resident with a son named Frank, born around the same period as Famous Frank. Given that the Donato on the 1907 manifest had a brother named Giuseppe, it seems possible if not likely that Giuseppe would also name his son Frank in the Italian custom, which is true for Famous Frank, son of Giuseppe.

--

- Magaddino says that the first man who he is having issues with came back from Florida and was "thrown out" after disparaging the organization. This man, likely named Frank Valenti as well, does not appear to be a member, as when Joe Falcone confuses him with Famous Frank, Magaddino clarifies that Famous Frank is a Cosa Nostra member, implying that the other man is not. Still, it is clear the other man was associated with the Buffalo group.

- Death records show that a Frank Valenti born the day after Famous Frank Valenti's alleged birthday died in Florida in 2003. Is it confirmed that Famous Frank died in 2008, as most online sources indicate? It would seem odd that both Frank Valentis were born a day apart, but not impossible of course. If the Frank who died in Florida in 2003 is in fact different from Famous Frank, the age and Florida connection suggests this could be Donato's son Frank.

--

- When Magaddino discusses Famous Frank Valenti, remember that he mentions in addition to Valenti himself joining Buffalo, Valenti also wanted his brother (Stanley), "another cousin", and an "old man" to join as well. The language "another cousin" implies that they had already discussed a cousin of Famous Frank Valenti. Given the context of the conversation this is almost certainly the first man they "threw out" who appears to also be named Frank Valenti, which would make complete sense if he was Donato's son since Donato appears to be the brother of Frank's father Giuseppe. This makes it almost certain that the first man who was "thrown out" was a cousin of Famous Frank and that reinforces the idea that he was also named Frank Valenti.

- The phonetics of "Bonorra's son" could easily be a mistranslation of Donato. In these types of transcripts, the B and D sound are often mistaken for one another and in heavy Italian accents (which Magaddino had) the letter T and R often sound alike (Cheech posted in another thread about how his friend "Ciro" sounds like "Cheeto" -- great example!).

- If "Bonorra" does refer to "Donato", Magaddino is probably not referring to Donato's son Frank who was "thrown out", but another son of Donato who is looking to join the Buffalo family, as "Bonorra's son" and "Mickey's father" are mentioned in the context of Famous Frank wanting his brother, "another cousin", and an "old man" to join the family.


NOTE: The well-known Frank Valenti was never known as "Famous Frank", that's solely me trying to distinguish him in this clusterfuck of information.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by B. »

Following up on the above, Donato had sons named Frank and Joseph, so Joseph Valenti may be the "another cousin" who Famous Frank wanted to bring into the Buffalo family.

Alphonse Valenti appears to be the son of yet another Frank Valenti (b. ~1903) and Alphonse was born in Pennsylvania before the family moved to Rochester. Alphonse had two brothers, one naturally named Frank Jr. and another Joseph. However, this Frank and Joseph would have been too young to be the bootleggers arrested with Alphonse. It's possible that Alphonse, if he's the same one, was involved in bootlegging with Donato's sons Frank and Joseph, who could be cousins of some kind, and would make sense in the context of the Magaddino transcript given that the Frank who was "thrown out" was associated with the Buffalo family and Joseph was being considered for membership of some kind.

EDIT: Appears that Alphonse's father Frank previously lived in Center Township, outside of Pittsburgh, prior to Rochester, would explain why Alphonse was born in PA. They moved to Rochester between 1920 and 1930.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by B. »

Well, an immigration record that might match with the aforementioned Frank Valenti Sr., father of Alphonse, suggests he was from Grotte, Agrigento. Grotte is where many of the early Sicilian "black hand" figures in Rochester were from, as identified by Lennert. The immigration record shows that he was related to an Alfonso Valenti in Sicily, and as we know these names run through families, so it would make sense if he named his son Alphonse.

Given that JCB found info indicating the well-known Rochester Valentis (Famous Frank) are Sicilian, it is very possible they were from Grotte, Agrigento, like many other Rochester figures given the way these groups followed fairly straightforward immigration patterns and paesani clumped together.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JXVD-1YS

The above online transcription is incorrect, as obviously 5-year-old male Francesco Valenti didn't have a gay husband named Alfonso Valenti back in Sicily. However, careful analysis of the manifest shows that Francesco was traveling with his mother (who the online transcription mistakenly says was 13-years-old but a look at the messy writing shows that is incorrect) whose husband was Alfonso. That means Francesco's father was Alfonso, so naturally he would name his first son Alphonse.

Given that these Valentis had ties to Pittsburgh, Rochester, and appear to have been engaged in bootlegging in Rochester, a connection to the more well-known Valentis is more than likely.

It is looking like the Valentis are from Grotte, Agrigento, or surrounding areas, like the foundations of other early Sicilian "black hand" activity in Rochester.

This makes the Ripepi connection even more interesting as it suggests that his strong early connection to Frank and Stanley came through the mafia opposed to ethnic heritage; this would indicate the Valentis may have had older relatives who were early Sicilian mafia figures in Pittsburgh. Remember that Nick Gentile was an early power in Pittsburgh and he was from Siculiana, Agrigento, not terribly far from Grotte, so there was an Agrigento foundation in Pittsburgh for the Valentis to fit into even though the Calabrian element came to dominate the family.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by eboli »

B. wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:01 pm ...
Donato's year of birth varies, but the household members ages and names remain the same, as well as the place of residence and by 1940 it seems the timeline fits with the info JCB mentioned how Donato's sons might have been the ones that were pinched. The record on "Donato Valente" I mentioned earlier is the one you found out in the passenger papers. I think it's possible it's the same guy and him moving to Pittsburgh makes sense, and establishes a connection. Early on a lot of people with the surname Valenti or Valente emigrated to the Pittsburgh region and from the looks of it it was a hub for them before spreading out across the country. His place of birth and last residence can be read as Sambatesa, but it might be a spelling error or like a lot of them did, intentionally made some name on the spot. I also can see it spelled as "Sambatello", which is in Calabria.

The non-famous Frank should be born in 1912, compared to Famous Frank, who was born in 1911 and died in 2008. Here's his obituary from the local paper:

63475.png
I think your explanation on a possible mistake with the transcription of "Bonorra" makes a lot of sense too.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by JCB1977 »

eboli wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:02 am
JCB1977 wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm Lennert sent me an email with the obits...the obits match this record. So now, I have two observations. First, the Frank Valenti, Joseph Valenti and Alphonse J. Valenti who were arrested in the 1940’s for a liquor ring were brothers from Rochester and Alphonse A. Valenti who was also arrested was from the Buffalo Niagara area who came to Rochester from Buffalo, most likely a cousin. Frank, Joe and Alphonse were Donato Valenti’s kids? Was Giuseppe Valenti (Frank and Costenze’s father) brother’s with Donato? And what role, if any, did Frank, Joseph and Alphonse A. and Alphonse J. play in the organized crime scene in Western NY?

Secondly, is Giuseppe Sicilian? Are there any other records (Ship manifest, naturalization, WW1, Passport etc) that give a more definitive place of birth?
I couldn't find much on Donato to be honest. Outside the census reports that place his year of birth between 1873 and 1876. In my opinion there might be a possibility he was only temporary in Rochester and moved to Canada or he had a different name. I stumbled upon the name "Donato Valente", but I haven't looked into it yet. If he and Giuseppe are indeed brothers and their kids are cousins that might explain how they managed to establish a power base early on in Rochester.

For Giuseppe I took the time to look through ship manifest lists and found a Giuseppe Valenti who arrived in the USA on June 11th, 1902 on the ship "Sardegna" with Napoli as the port of departure. His age was listed as 24, marital status as single and "Campofelice" as his last place of residence. It's worth of note, if it's the same Giuseppe "Joseph" Valenti, he arrived in the USA just 2 days before his 24th birthday. If his wife's name is Rosalia with a maiden name Inserra, there was a young woman with the same name that arrived on June 23rd, 1905 with the same ship "Sardegna" from Napoli. Her last place of residence in Italy is listed as Roccapalumba. I'm attaching Giuseppe's entry.

77.png
Excellent match! Sicilians...at least their last place of residence. I’m very surprised that Tony Ripepi played a hand in this marriage. I just got back into town, been away with the family. I’m gonna search Alphonse in Buffalo and start searching the other Valenti’s who were all arrested for a significant liquor ring. Obvious connections to Buffalo and that could partially explain Frank & Costenze’s quick rise to power.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by JCB1977 »

B. wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:01 pm Ok, we've circled back to something very interesting:

- On the Magaddino transcript with Joe Falcone, the reason they discussed Frank Valenti's transfer from Pittsburgh to Buffalo-Rochester was because Magaddino was initially talking about a problem with someone who Joe Falcone initially confused for the well-known Frank Valenti, which led them to start discussing him (let's call him "Famous" Frank for the sake of clarity).

- Magaddino tells Falcone not to confuse the first man with Famous Frank Valenti. When I first read this, my impression was that the first man was also named Frank Valenti, hence Falcone's confusion, but that didn't make sense at the time. Now it does, as you will see below.

--

- The Donato Valenti I mentioned earlier lived consistently in Rochester after arriving in the US and had a son named Frank, born the same year (or close to it) as Famous Frank. As Eboli mentioned, this Donato's birth year varies in records but I'm fairly certain all of the records refer to the same man, born around the mid-1870s.

- A 1907 immigration record shows that a Donato Valente, born in the same range of years as the above Donato Valenti, was traveling to Rochester, NY as his destination and lists a Giuseppe as his brother. You can see this here, and though something may be written or smudged over the destination, you can see Rochester written underneath: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... 3AJXVW-WJM

- On the above record, I'm having a hard time deciphering Donato's Italian town of residence. It is transcribed as Sambatesa but both the original handwritten records and the online interpretations like this are often riddled with errors and while the word in cursive looks close to that, I can't figure out what town it's actually referring to and can't find any towns, historic or otherwise, that were called Sambatesa. Others on the same manifest from "Sambatesa" were heading to PA, with at least one going to Pittsburgh. Often paesans on the same manifest were relatives or otherwise connected to each other, so this establishes a potential connection between both Rochester and Pittsburgh for Donato "Valente".

- Given that this Donato was going to Rochester and his age is a close match, it's likely he is the same Donato "Valenti" who shows up in other records as a longtime Rochester resident with a son named Frank, born around the same period as Famous Frank. Given that the Donato on the 1907 manifest had a brother named Giuseppe, it seems possible if not likely that Giuseppe would also name his son Frank in the Italian custom, which is true for Famous Frank, son of Giuseppe.

--

- Magaddino says that the first man who he is having issues with came back from Florida and was "thrown out" after disparaging the organization. This man, likely named Frank Valenti as well, does not appear to be a member, as when Joe Falcone confuses him with Famous Frank, Magaddino clarifies that Famous Frank is a Cosa Nostra member, implying that the other man is not. Still, it is clear the other man was associated with the Buffalo group.

- Death records show that a Frank Valenti born the day after Famous Frank Valenti's alleged birthday died in Florida in 2003. Is it confirmed that Famous Frank died in 2008, as most online sources indicate? It would seem odd that both Frank Valentis were born a day apart, but not impossible of course. If the Frank who died in Florida in 2003 is in fact different from Famous Frank, the age and Florida connection suggests this could be Donato's son Frank.

--

- When Magaddino discusses Famous Frank Valenti, remember that he mentions in addition to Valenti himself joining Buffalo, Valenti also wanted his brother (Stanley), "another cousin", and an "old man" to join as well. The language "another cousin" implies that they had already discussed a cousin of Famous Frank Valenti. Given the context of the conversation this is almost certainly the first man they "threw out" who appears to also be named Frank Valenti, which would make complete sense if he was Donato's son since Donato appears to be the brother of Frank's father Giuseppe. This makes it almost certain that the first man who was "thrown out" was a cousin of Famous Frank and that reinforces the idea that he was also named Frank Valenti.

- The phonetics of "Bonorra's son" could easily be a mistranslation of Donato. In these types of transcripts, the B and D sound are often mistaken for one another and in heavy Italian accents (which Magaddino had) the letter T and R often sound alike (Cheech posted in another thread about how his friend "Ciro" sounds like "Cheeto" -- great example!).

- If "Bonorra" does refer to "Donato", Magaddino is probably not referring to Donato's son Frank who was "thrown out", but another son of Donato who is looking to join the Buffalo family, as "Bonorra's son" and "Mickey's father" are mentioned in the context of Famous Frank wanting his brother, "another cousin", and an "old man" to join the family.


NOTE: The well-known Frank Valenti was never known as "Famous Frank", that's solely me trying to distinguish him in this clusterfuck of information.
Thank you for taking the time to confirm some of this very fascinating info. I’ll pm you tomorrow. Appreciate you doing some detective work B.
"I figure I’m gonna have to do about 6000 years before I get accepted into heaven. And 6000 years is nothing in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here."

-Pauly Walnuts, RIP
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by B. »

Another interesting angle that has come out of the Maranzano Infomer issue is that in addition to a Charles Tulumello being a possible early Buffalo figure in Hamilton, a Salvatore Tulumello of Buffalo, from Racalmuto like Charles, was allegedly part of the NYC Buster Domingo murder with a Louis Cipolla. Charles Cipolla was a Buffalo member in Ontario, so that's another potential connection. Many Cipollas are from Racalmuto.

Interesting that someone with a surname tied to Maranzano's activites in Ontario would be used to kill Maranzano's top gunman Domingo later on, along with someone with another name connected to Ontario.

--

Random but relevant to this thread. The real Ralph "Jilly" Scibetta is on Facebook and friends with the murdered Cece Luppino and another Luppino grandson.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Angelo Santino »

B. wrote: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:14 am Another interesting angle that has come out of the Maranzano Infomer issue is that in addition to a Charles Tulumello being a possible early Buffalo figure in Hamilton, a Salvatore Tulumello of Buffalo, from Racalmuto like Charles, was allegedly part of the NYC Buster Domingo murder with a Louis Cipolla. Charles Cipolla was a Buffalo member in Ontario, so that's another potential connection. Many Cipollas are from Racalmuto.

Interesting that someone with a surname tied to Maranzano's activites in Ontario would be used to kill Maranzano's top gunman Domingo later on, along with someone with another name connected to Ontario.

--

Random but relevant to this thread. The real Ralph "Jilly" Scibetta is on Facebook and friends with the murdered Cece Luppino and another Luppino grandson.
I wonder why he's not friends with his 'nephew' Scotty Campbell. :twisted:
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by lennert »

Hello all, I'm back from the dead, and thought I would chip in my two cents regarding the Valentis.

From what I could figure out, they are two seperate families. I will not say they are not related somehow, but at least there doesn't appear to be a very direct relationship.

To go with B's description, the famous Frank Valenti, his family seems to come from Palermo. Father Giuseppe and mother Rosalia (Inserra) arrived in the US together in 1907. Both gave Palermo as their place of birth. Their last residence is hard to decipher, but it reads something like C. Felicia or something similar. The shipping manifest is attached (or at least I tried to)
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by lennert »

Regarding the Valentis figuring in the 1940s liquor ring, they are a bit hard to figure out. From what I understand, Frank, Alphonse A. and Joseph were brothers. Their father was indeed Alpfonso, who as B. pointed out, came from Grotto. Their mother was Vincenza. Alphonse J. was Frank's son. To confuse matters, there was also a Alphonse F. whofigured in the case, who without a doubt was related to the others, but not sure how exactly.

Before settling in Rochester, Alfonso lived in Indiana, Pa. As of 1930, Vincenza still lived there with her children (Frank also still lived there in 1930, but he was already married and had his own houselhold by then) Alfonso however, was not part of the household anymore, and might have moved to Rochester to make preparations for the rest of the family to come over, as they appeared in Rochester not long after. Alfonso died there in 1933. Vincenza died in Rochester in 1937. Attached the Indiana census records, as well as Vincenza's 1937 obituary.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by eboli »

Great stuff, man!
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by lennert »

Vincenza's obit:
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by lennert »

The "other" Frank Valenti's primary racket was bootlegging, having been arrested for it on a few earlier occassions before his arrest in the 1940s case. I will attach a few newspaper articles on Frank Valenti, and the 1940s case. Note that several of those arrested in the 1940s case were relatives. Frank Dimino was married to a sister of the Valenti brothers, and Carl Dimino was Frank Dimino's brother. A third Dimino, Andrew, was the brother of Concetta Morreale.
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