Rules against stealing (and lying)

[B.]

After Valachi was made, he was told that he could no longer steal. One of the new Maranzano articles talks about this, where Valachi was warned by Maranzano not to commit burglaries or steal during a lull in violence. When Valachi went against this order and Maranzano found out, he lightheartedly chastised Valachi and warned him not to do it again.

The first time I read about this I thought it might have been a rule only during the war, as they didn't want their men to draw extra heat on top of everything else going on. Reading it this time, though, I was reminded that Buscetta claimed one of the rules he was told upon his induction was that a Cosa Nostra member could not steal.

This rule seems to have been like the future drug rule in that members could still profit from theft and many got away with directly participating. Cattle and horse theft were a significant racket for the early Sicilian mafia, so if this was a rule it was likely smudged and broken from the beginning. Maranzano's easygoing reaction to Valachi breaking this rule reminds me of when Valachi later broke the drug rule and was called to a meeting with Genovese, who was not as jovial as Maranzano but just as passive. Later when Maranzano found out Valachi had kept stealing he was more upset. Similarly, when Valachi was arrested for drugs after Genovese's warning he appears to have fallen into deeper disfavor with his boss.

I'm not aware of any known US inductions where a member was told not to steal as part of the standard rules, but Maranzano imposing the rule on Valachi indicates it may have been used in the early Sicilian US groups like it was in Sicily, which would be logical.

Both Buscetta and Calderone also talked about another similar rule against lying to another Cosa Nostra member. Again, I've never heard of this being stated explicitly as a rule in the US. It seems ridiculous given the constant deception inside of these organizations, but based on what pentiti have said they did try to keep up the appearances of this rule by finding ways around it and operating in grey areas. No doubt it was still broken outright, but from what the pentiti said it was considered a major offense to be caught in a lie. This probably had more to do with politicking than true moral outrage.

Even decades after counterfeiting went out of fashion in the US mafia, new members were still told not to get involved in counterfeiting and stolen bonds. Interesting that this rule had such a long life while the stealing and lying rules didn't, but counterfeiting and bonds are highly specific activities with certain legal repercussions while "stealing" and "lying" are general, so there was a clear incentive for the organization to outlaw those activities on an ongoing basis.

At some point, most of the US mafia must have decided not to include the rules about stealing and lying. Maybe I'm just blanking, but in all of the countless nationwide ceremonies that have been reported over generations I can't think of any time I've seen these rules mentioned in a US ceremony, nor as rules they were told later (except Valachi / stealing). Maybe they were self-aware enough to realize that these rules were a complete joke and got rid of them, or they felt the general guidelines about "honor" were enough.

[Villain]

The old fellas tried to impose some rules from the old country but when Prohibition was over, all bets were off

[maxiestern11]

After Valachi was made, he was told that he could no longer steal. One of the new Maranzano articles talks about this, where Valachi was warned by Maranzano not to commit burglaries or steal during a lull in violence. When Valachi went against this order and Maranzano found out, he lightheartedly chastised Valachi and warned him not to do it again.

The first time I read about this I thought it might have been a rule only during the war, as they didn't want their men to draw extra heat on top of everything else going on. Reading it this time, though, I was reminded that Buscetta claimed one of the rules he was told upon his induction was that a Cosa Nostra member could not steal.

This rule seems to have been like the future drug rule in that members could still profit from theft and many got away with directly participating. Cattle and horse theft were a significant racket for the early Sicilian mafia, so if this was a rule it was likely smudged and broken from the beginning. Maranzano's easygoing reaction to Valachi breaking this rule reminds me of when Valachi later broke the drug rule and was called to a meeting with Genovese, who was not as jovial as Maranzano but just as passive. Later when Maranzano found out Valachi had kept stealing he was more upset. Similarly, when Valachi was arrested for drugs after Genovese's warning he appears to have fallen into deeper disfavor with his boss.

I'm not aware of any known US inductions where a member was told not to steal as part of the standard rules, but Maranzano imposing the rule on Valachi indicates it may have been used in the early Sicilian US groups like it was in Sicily, which would be logical.

Both Buscetta and Calderone also talked about another similar rule against lying to another Cosa Nostra member. Again, I've never heard of this being stated explicitly as a rule in the US. It seems ridiculous given the constant deception inside of these organizations, but based on what pentiti have said they did try to keep up the appearances of this rule by finding ways around it and operating in grey areas. No doubt it was still broken outright, but from what the pentiti said it was considered a major offense to be caught in a lie. This probably had more to do with politicking than true moral outrage.

Even decades after counterfeiting went out of fashion in the US mafia, new members were still told not to get involved in counterfeiting and stolen bonds. Interesting that this rule had such a long life while the stealing and lying rules didn't, but counterfeiting and bonds are highly specific activities with certain legal repercussions while "stealing" and "lying" are general, so there was a clear incentive for the organization to outlaw those activities on an ongoing basis.

At some point, most of the US mafia must have decided not to include the rules about stealing and lying. Maybe I'm just blanking, but in all of the countless nationwide ceremonies that have been reported over generations I can't think of any time I've seen these rules mentioned in a US ceremony, nor as rules they were told later (except Valachi / stealing). Maybe they were self-aware enough to realize that these rules were a complete joke and got rid of them, or they felt the general guidelines about "honor" were enough.

To this very day, you are told that you can never lie to another good fellow! ..... anybody else, you can fuck around as you please. But when at a table, or elsewhere, in a meet or argument, “technically” everyone is “supposed” to be 100% truthful, regardless of the consequences. THIS is a firm rule!
-
Of course in actual practice, we all know and have seen many instances where made guys lie through their teeth to each other’s face, but it’s not officially supposed to be!
-
If your caught in a lie, you automatically lose the table, or are deemed wrong and are “punished”! Either with losing the “decision” or even worse! Depending if course on who you lied to!.... a Boss or just another soldier.
-
But like everything else in CN, it depends on who’s doing the lying! Lol

[maxiestern11]

After Valachi was made, he was told that he could no longer steal. One of the new Maranzano articles talks about this, where Valachi was warned by Maranzano not to commit burglaries or steal during a lull in violence. When Valachi went against this order and Maranzano found out, he lightheartedly chastised Valachi and warned him not to do it again.

The first time I read about this I thought it might have been a rule only during the war, as they didn't want their men to draw extra heat on top of everything else going on. Reading it this time, though, I was reminded that Buscetta claimed one of the rules he was told upon his induction was that a Cosa Nostra member could not steal.

This rule seems to have been like the future drug rule in that members could still profit from theft and many got away with directly participating. Cattle and horse theft were a significant racket for the early Sicilian mafia, so if this was a rule it was likely smudged and broken from the beginning. Maranzano's easygoing reaction to Valachi breaking this rule reminds me of when Valachi later broke the drug rule and was called to a meeting with Genovese, who was not as jovial as Maranzano but just as passive. Later when Maranzano found out Valachi had kept stealing he was more upset. Similarly, when Valachi was arrested for drugs after Genovese's warning he appears to have fallen into deeper disfavor with his boss.

I'm not aware of any known US inductions where a member was told not to steal as part of the standard rules, but Maranzano imposing the rule on Valachi indicates it may have been used in the early Sicilian US groups like it was in Sicily, which would be logical.

Both Buscetta and Calderone also talked about another similar rule against lying to another Cosa Nostra member. Again, I've never heard of this being stated explicitly as a rule in the US. It seems ridiculous given the constant deception inside of these organizations, but based on what pentiti have said they did try to keep up the appearances of this rule by finding ways around it and operating in grey areas. No doubt it was still broken outright, but from what the pentiti said it was considered a major offense to be caught in a lie. This probably had more to do with politicking than true moral outrage.

Even decades after counterfeiting went out of fashion in the US mafia, new members were still told not to get involved in counterfeiting and stolen bonds. Interesting that this rule had such a long life while the stealing and lying rules didn't, but counterfeiting and bonds are highly specific activities with certain legal repercussions while "stealing" and "lying" are general, so there was a clear incentive for the organization to outlaw those activities on an ongoing basis.

At some point, most of the US mafia must have decided not to include the rules about stealing and lying. Maybe I'm just blanking, but in all of the countless nationwide ceremonies that have been reported over generations I can't think of any time I've seen these rules mentioned in a US ceremony, nor as rules they were told later (except Valachi / stealing). Maybe they were self-aware enough to realize that these rules were a complete joke and got rid of them, or they felt the general guidelines about "honor" were enough.

To this very day, you are told that you can never lie to another good fellow! ..... anybody else, you can fuck around as you please. But when at a table, or elsewhere, in a meet or argument, “technically” everyone is “supposed” to be 100% truthful, regardless of the consequences. THIS is a firm rule!
-
Of course in actual practice, we all know and have seen many instances where made guys lie through their teeth to each other’s face, but it’s not officially supposed to be!
-
If your caught in a lie, you automatically lose the table, or are deemed wrong and are “punished”! Either with losing the “decision” or even worse! Depending if course on who you lied to!.... a Boss or just another soldier.
-
But like everything else in CN, it depends on who’s doing the lying! Lol

Penalties for violating this rule could be getting read “the riot act”, getting “shelved” or even getting “clipped” if the lie had major ramifications or was told to a boss!

[bert]

Masseria was arrested doing a small time burglary, as documented in book by Alex Horits. I think it may have been that Marranzano had a set of rules for his crews different from others. He made money through things like counterfeiting. He may have been out of touch with the reality of the way these guys were struggling to make money.

[Bklyn21]

After Valachi was made, he was told that he could no longer steal. One of the new Maranzano articles talks about this, where Valachi was warned by Maranzano not to commit burglaries or steal during a lull in violence. When Valachi went against this order and Maranzano found out, he lightheartedly chastised Valachi and warned him not to do it again.

The first time I read about this I thought it might have been a rule only during the war, as they didn't want their men to draw extra heat on top of everything else going on. Reading it this time, though, I was reminded that Buscetta claimed one of the rules he was told upon his induction was that a Cosa Nostra member could not steal.

This rule seems to have been like the future drug rule in that members could still profit from theft and many got away with directly participating. Cattle and horse theft were a significant racket for the early Sicilian mafia, so if this was a rule it was likely smudged and broken from the beginning. Maranzano's easygoing reaction to Valachi breaking this rule reminds me of when Valachi later broke the drug rule and was called to a meeting with Genovese, who was not as jovial as Maranzano but just as passive. Later when Maranzano found out Valachi had kept stealing he was more upset. Similarly, when Valachi was arrested for drugs after Genovese's warning he appears to have fallen into deeper disfavor with his boss.

I'm not aware of any known US inductions where a member was told not to steal as part of the standard rules, but Maranzano imposing the rule on Valachi indicates it may have been used in the early Sicilian US groups like it was in Sicily, which would be logical.

Both Buscetta and Calderone also talked about another similar rule against lying to another Cosa Nostra member. Again, I've never heard of this being stated explicitly as a rule in the US. It seems ridiculous given the constant deception inside of these organizations, but based on what pentiti have said they did try to keep up the appearances of this rule by finding ways around it and operating in grey areas. No doubt it was still broken outright, but from what the pentiti said it was considered a major offense to be caught in a lie. This probably had more to do with politicking than true moral outrage.

Even decades after counterfeiting went out of fashion in the US mafia, new members were still told not to get involved in counterfeiting and stolen bonds. Interesting that this rule had such a long life while the stealing and lying rules didn't, but counterfeiting and bonds are highly specific activities with certain legal repercussions while "stealing" and "lying" are general, so there was a clear incentive for the organization to outlaw those activities on an ongoing basis.

At some point, most of the US mafia must have decided not to include the rules about stealing and lying. Maybe I'm just blanking, but in all of the countless nationwide ceremonies that have been reported over generations I can't think of any time I've seen these rules mentioned in a US ceremony, nor as rules they were told later (except Valachi / stealing). Maybe they were self-aware enough to realize that these rules were a complete joke and got rid of them, or they felt the general guidelines about "honor" were enough.

I love all these so called rules and reading about them in present day 2019 when now there is so much information out there that was previously unknown due to advancements in technology we now know that so many were secret Confidential informants and guys like Genovese and Gigante among others were up to their eyeballs in narcotics, Specifically Heroin ! Amuso and Casso , TG Graziano, Massino with his 5 year drug policy rules for new inductees who was a major trafficker, Eboli, Gotti and company/Crew were all about drugs, The new Gambino regime Major narcotics traffickers, And the former acting boss Zeke Squittere and acting underboss at the time were Junk traffickers, Lucky Luciano, Galante and Countless others its amazing, And comical lmao ! No stealing ? Lmfao...No drugs !?!? lmfao...Absolutely no Lying and no banging members Gf's, Wives, Realtives ! No unsanctioned hits !?!? We all know about 75% of mob killings, Probably more were sneak jobs, Totally unsanctioned ! If all these rules were real these guys would be having at least 200 sitdowns a day !! How was your week last week Mr.Gotti ,Ahhhhhh Motherfuckers, I gotta sever alotta guys heads this coming next few weeks, J.Gotti::: You know Sammy, Last week was a record for sitdowns, I worked OT , Barely slept a wink and did , I counted Uhhh , 3,346 sitdowns, Motherfuckas!! We need to sitdown Sammy, Ya know, Change the rules, Start doing Standups, Or maybe fucken Laydowns !! Ya know Sammy that'd be nice, We all get nice cooshy pillows,Blankets for it's a cold winter night, Sot by the fireplace roast marshmallows and start doin Laydowns !! It's just almost about 2020 , I think the mob is doing Laydowns now, The rules were changed in 2016 to accommodate all the senior citizens in the organizations

[NJShore4Life]

Always remember that there is no honor amongst thieves!

[Villain]

I love how many guys used to talk about being forbidden banging other guy's wife... while on the other hand they fucked every single broad they met lol

[bert]

I love how many guys used to talk about being forbidden banging other guy's wife... while on the other hand they fucked every single broad they met lol

That's why they don't need to bang other guys wives.

[B.]

Not to get too liberal about it, but it's a good point about the "classism" of guys like Maranzano, Bonanno, and Profaci. They all came from relatively affluent backgrounds and didn't have to steal like Valachi, a Neapolitan with no mafia connections who was given a shot of whiskey for Christmas as a child (no joke) and slept in a horse stable to escape bed bugs. Maranzano on the other hand came to N.America and immediately had significant legal and illegal businesses all over the place due to his wealth and connections -- easy for him to tell members not to steal.

However, this clearly wasn't just Maranzano's personal opinion, as Buscetta's info shows that it was a formal rule in the Sicilian mafia of which Maranzano was a boss before he came to the US.

Note that it wasn't a rule against illegal activity in general, as gambling, bootlegging, and other rackets were well-accepted.

[johnny_scootch]

Both Buscetta and Calderone also talked about another similar rule against lying to another Cosa Nostra member.

I think the situation with Calderone you're referring to was about stealing. Calderone remembered at his making ceremony the initiates were told they could not steal anymore and Natale Ercolano objected but was told to be quiet and they would explain further after the making ceremony.

After the ceremony Giuseppe Indelicato says to Ercolano this

'Natale try to understand me clearly. It's not that you can never steal. Sure it is better if you don't, because that's a Cosa Nostra rule. But one needs to know how to understand the rules. You have to live and if you need to steal to live then so be it. As the provincial representative I can't support you. I can't give you a stipend that would allow you to live well and not go out stealing. I don't have the money and then again that's not how it works. The family doesn't function like that. So, steal, by all means. But be careful who you steal from. You always have to know who you're stealing from. You can't steal from a man of honor or his relatives. From anyone else, yes.'

[Bklyn21]

Always remember that there is no honor amongst thieves!

Exactly!!! A good number of guys go into this life thinking this is really a tight bonded group and real true to life brotherhood !

[B.]

Both Buscetta and Calderone also talked about another similar rule against lying to another Cosa Nostra member.

I think the situation with Calderone you're referring to was about stealing. Calderone remembered at his making ceremony the initiates were told they could not steal anymore and Natale Ercolano objected but was told to be quiet and they would explain further after the making ceremony.

After the ceremony Giuseppe Indelicato says to Ercolano this

'Natale try to understand me clearly. It's not that you can never steal. Sure it is better if you don't, because that's a Cosa Nostra rule. But one needs to know how to understand the rules. You have to live and if you need to steal to live then so be it. As the provincial representative I can't support you. I can't give you a stipend that would allow you to live well and not go out stealing. I don't have the money and then again that's not how it works. The family doesn't function like that. So, steal, by all means. But be careful who you steal from. You always have to know who you're stealing from. You can't steal from a man of honor or his relatives. From anyone else, yes.'

Well, that's an excellent excerpt that backs up the idea that "no stealing" was a mafia-wide rule in Sicily and explains the way leaders managed the hypocrisy/contradiction of that kind of rule, so thanks for sharing.

What I was referring to, though, was definitely the "no lying" rule discussed by Calderone in his book. He talks about navigating this rule through omission despite the fact that there is a rule against members lying to other members.

[johnny_scootch]

What I was referring to, though, was definitely the "no lying" rule discussed by Calderone in his book. He talks about navigating this rule through omission despite the fact that there is a rule against members lying to other members.

You're jogging my memory. If I have a chance later I'll try to find the passage in the book you are referring to.

[B.]

What I was referring to, though, was definitely the "no lying" rule discussed by Calderone in his book. He talks about navigating this rule through omission despite the fact that there is a rule against members lying to other members.

You're jogging my memory. If I have a chance later I'll try to find the passage in the book you are referring to.

I have the book and should pull out the exact part I was referring to, but a quick google shows this Calderone-related excerpt from another book which sums it up:
https://books.google.com/books?id=y3bv3 ... ia&f=false

By the way, anyone who wants to understand the mafia should absolutely read Calderone's book.