ChicagoOutfit wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:16 pm
When the two NYPD detectives were shot while following Genovese members (was it Gigante?), how was that issue resolved? It seems like that incident would have brought on extreme heat and would have pissed off Chin.
I know one of the officers died and Giovanelli beat the murder wrap twice...was curious if anyone has any insight to how this was handled internally.
Here's a more detailed account on the case: https://bit.ly/2TlTB3q
I don't think I've read for any internal consequences for Giovanelli. He was later promoted to capo, but was put under a lot of pressure from law enforcement after the hung juries.
It was a mistake.... Fritzie didn’t mean to ever shoot a cop! That’s why he didn’t face any retribution. He was very well liked by his guy, and because of that he was given a pass although it caused so much grief for everyone..... and Fritzie was tortured by LE in the years to come. He ended doing a lot of time on others cases they brought against him. All as “payback” for killing Venditti.
It was never certain they killed Vendetti, his partner lost him and was possibly drunk. To beat a case like that is almost impossible. One of his codependents who Vendetti's partner place on the scene had multiple witnesses placing him elsewhere. I think if the cops felt Giovanelli really did it, they would have gotten him on anything they could.
thekiduknow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:34 pm
What exactly was the "Combination"? I've seen it used in mostly older descriptions of the Mafia/national organized crime, but was there ever a group that that term described? Or was it more of a catch all for the seemingly rotating, and multi-ethnic, racketeers of the 1920s/1930s?
may of been a catch all but the media called the group in Cleveland the combination.
the Cleveland combitation dominated the city Italians , Jewish and Irish
"if he's such A sports wizard , whys he tending bar ?" Nicky Scarfo
Was Capone ever connected to any Camorra members? I'm rereading the Valachi Papers, and it says that while in Sing Sing in the early 20s, Valachi was "schooled" by Camorra boss Alessandro Vollero about the Neapolitans vs Sicilians. He says at one point "I will send you to a Neapolitan. His name is Capone.He's from Brooklyn, but he's in Chicago now."(Pg 50). Was Capone ever tied to the Camorra? I know that he was made into Masseria's family as a capo, so it would be interesting if he started out in the Camorra, and then transferred to the Mafia.
thekiduknow wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:45 pm
Was Capone ever connected to any Camorra members? I'm rereading the Valachi Papers, and it says that while in Sing Sing in the early 20s, Valachi was "schooled" by Camorra boss Alessandro Vollero about the Neapolitans vs Sicilians. He says at one point "I will send you to a Neapolitan. His name is Capone.He's from Brooklyn, but he's in Chicago now."(Pg 50). Was Capone ever tied to the Camorra? I know that he was made into Masseria's family as a capo, so it would be interesting if he started out in the Camorra, and then transferred to the Mafia.
Yes he was..... originally started out in downtown Brooklyn (Camorra country), and was close with Frankie Yale a Calabrese I believe, Tony the Shoemaker Paretti, Alessandro Vollero, Tony the Sheik Carillo, Little Augie Pisano......and others. all the latter Napolitani - all
I mentioned started with the Camorra and were later absorbed/meshed into the Sicilian mob
thekiduknow wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:45 pm
Was Capone ever connected to any Camorra members? I'm rereading the Valachi Papers, and it says that while in Sing Sing in the early 20s, Valachi was "schooled" by Camorra boss Alessandro Vollero about the Neapolitans vs Sicilians. He says at one point "I will send you to a Neapolitan. His name is Capone.He's from Brooklyn, but he's in Chicago now."(Pg 50). Was Capone ever tied to the Camorra? I know that he was made into Masseria's family as a capo, so it would be interesting if he started out in the Camorra, and then transferred to the Mafia.
Yes he was..... originally started out in downtown Brooklyn (Camorra country), and was close with Frankie Yale a Calabrese I believe, Tony the Shoemaker Paretti, Alessandro Vollero, Tony the Sheik Carillo, Little Augie Pisano......and others. all the latter Napolitani - all
I mentioned started with the Camorra and were later absorbed/meshed into the Sicilian mob
Thinking about it, Yale, Capone, Carillo, and Pisano were all brought into Masseria’s family, as was of course Vito Genovese who had his own connections to the Camorra. I wonder what the story is with Masseria taking in so many Camorra members.
thekiduknow wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:45 pm
Was Capone ever connected to any Camorra members? I'm rereading the Valachi Papers, and it says that while in Sing Sing in the early 20s, Valachi was "schooled" by Camorra boss Alessandro Vollero about the Neapolitans vs Sicilians. He says at one point "I will send you to a Neapolitan. His name is Capone.He's from Brooklyn, but he's in Chicago now."(Pg 50). Was Capone ever tied to the Camorra? I know that he was made into Masseria's family as a capo, so it would be interesting if he started out in the Camorra, and then transferred to the Mafia.
Yes he was..... originally started out in downtown Brooklyn (Camorra country), and was close with Frankie Yale a Calabrese I believe, Tony the Shoemaker Paretti, Alessandro Vollero, Tony the Sheik Carillo, Little Augie Pisano......and others. all the latter Napolitani - all
I mentioned started with the Camorra and were later absorbed/meshed into the Sicilian mob
Thinking about it, Yale, Capone, Carillo, and Pisano were all brought into Masseria’s family, as was of course Vito Genovese who had his own connections to the Camorra. I wonder what the story is with Masseria taking in so many Camorra members.
Just happened that way. Genovese is the biggest Family for mixed Italians..... known for it big Napolitano, Calabrian, Barese membership
MichaelGiovanni wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:39 pm
Who were the Profaci family consiglieri’s from 1930-1964?
I believe a fellow by the name of Antonio Bello or something similar to that name early on (don’t quote me on that), then I believe Charlie the Sidge LoCicero for many years, until Sally the Sheik Mussachio took the position under Magliocco for a short duration after Profaci’s death. Subsequently when Colombo took over in 64’ he kept several old men as consigliere. More knowledgeable and less of a threat to his leadership..... after his shooting, Charlie Lemons Mineo for a short time during the turmoil.
Scarpa identified Anthony Buffa as serving as consigliere until his death. I believe JD confirmed that Buffa's real name was Joseph and that he died in 1959. Charles LoCicero was acting consigliere but then the timeline gets confusing. There was a gap of several years anyway after Buffa died where there was no consigliere. Scarpa reported that LoCicero was asked (and agreed) to step down in early 1961 at the start of the war with the Gallo brothers but LoCicero is still carried as acting consigliere into 1962 and Scarpa identifies Sam Badalamenti acting as consigliere while LoCicero spent some time in Italy. When Profaci died the family held an election to select a new boss and consigliere. Joseph Magliocco was elected boss and Salvatore Mussachio was elected consigliere but neither were confirmed by the Commission and between 1962 and I think 1965 there was no acting consigliere at all in the family. Mussachio held no rank for a few months while awaiting to be appointed consigliere by the Commission but in 1963 was back to being a capo with his old crew being split three ways between himself and the newly promoted Joe Colombo and Sonny Franzese. I think JD has Benedetto D'Alessandro being appointed consigliere in 1965, so that's a solid gap of 6 years where the family had no consigliere and half of that without even an acting consigliere.
'You don't go crucifying people outside a church; not on Good Friday.'
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:32 pm
Scarpa identified Anthony Buffa as serving as consigliere until his death. I believe JD confirmed that Buffa's real name was Joseph and that he died in 1959. Charles LoCicero was acting consigliere but then the timeline gets confusing. There was a gap of several years anyway after Buffa died where there was no consigliere. Scarpa reported that LoCicero was asked (and agreed) to step down in early 1961 at the start of the war with the Gallo brothers but LoCicero is still carried as acting consigliere into 1962 and Scarpa identifies Sam Badalamenti acting as consigliere while LoCicero spent some time in Italy. When Profaci died the family held an election to select a new boss and consigliere. Joseph Magliocco was elected boss and Salvatore Mussachio was elected consigliere but neither were confirmed by the Commission and between 1962 and I think 1965 there was no acting consigliere at all in the family. Mussachio held no rank for a few months while awaiting to be appointed consigliere by the Commission but in 1963 was back to being a capo with his old crew being split three ways between himself and the newly promoted Joe Colombo and Sonny Franzese. I think JD has Benedetto D'Alessandro being appointed consigliere in 1965, so that's a solid gap of 6 years where the family had no consigliere and half of that without even an acting consigliere.
That’s right Chin... I forgot about Benny D’Alessandro. He did serve for awhile as consigliere. I believe he eventually retired to Sicily, is that correct Chin?
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
